Where do I find the front end alignment specs?

[Wildrice]

i/e---- toe in, caster.camber?
Thank you kindly,
Darrell

 

[Motorcycledave]

All that can be adjusted on a Can Am Spyder
is the Toe, caster and camber are not adjustable
if those angles are out of specs. something is bent
Dave

i/e---- toe in, caster.camber?
Thank you kindly,
Darrell

 

[Peter Aawen]

?....
if those angles are out of specs. something is bent
Dave

But how will anyone ever know anything is bent (or possibly more likely, not set correctly from the dealer/factory) unless they know what those specs are actually meant to be?? :gaah: :banghead: :banghead:

I too too would be interested to know what they should be, but it seems even the factory has no idea! At least, not any idea they are prepared to share!! :shocked:

 

[Wildrice]

Good point on the camber & caster specs Peter.

I had worked for www.hunter.com for 1+ yr as a sales rep before I retired. Lots of vehicles have the "stated fixed" Camber & Caster but when the alignment machine shows out of spec--there is no other choice to remedy the problem except for replacing expensive parts or adding "shims" to correct the prolblem. & auto parts locations do sell shims for these non-adjustable Camber & Caster to correct the specs---major deviation from the specs do reguire hard part replacements--but minor can be corrected with shims.

How would anyone know if the caster & camber alignment is within specs---possible tire wear or steering pull --then what ??

 

[JayBros]

Toe in spec is found in the shop manual for the respective models. Since caster and camber are nonadjustable elements of the suspension design BRP apparently finds no need to publish them. They could be measured in relation to each other left and right with proper devices, but if your measurements aren't exactually equal the Spyder has experienced some significant damage and/or wear and you may be out large coin to replace major suspension parts to get everything back in spec.

 

[Peter Aawen]

?....
How would anyone know if the caster & camber alignment is within specs---possible tire wear or steering pull --then what ??

Steering pull is one sign, tire wear another, but before you get anywhere near that far there are many other signs & symptoms, & any or all of them can be indicators of poor or incorrect camber or caster settings. Things like erratic road holding, wandering when you are trying to ride straight; a bit of vibration or shimmy after hitting a bump that takes a few seconds to settle; a steering 'rattle' or shimmy at a certain speed or in a given speed range; 'darty' steering, when the bike seems to react/veer very quickly in response to the tiniest of steering input; heavy steering; tram lining on barely noticeable surface imperfections; a tendency to plow straight ahead on a corner before suddenly responding; in fact, just about ANY &/or ALL of the complaints people on this & other forums have ever posted with regard to their Spyder steering could be as a result of incorrect settings apart from just toe in/out discrepancies.

At the worst end of running 'incorrect or out of spec caster or camber settings' you can end up with settings that either refuse to let your bike turn regardless of where the wheels are pointed, or at the other extreme, finding your steering has a 'point of no return' where the steering goes so far & then suddenly slams over to full lock & you are completely unable to turn it straight again....

On our Spyder suspensions, Camber & Caster will vary a little on where the bike is sitting in the full range of its suspension travel, so different weight riders will probably end up with different settings on their bikes - changing the front suspension pre-load can help reduce this or get it within the designed spec range. There WILL be a 'design spec' (probably a range of a couple of degrees for either/both) somewhere that the engineers who originally designed the front suspension & steering worked out would be best for these bikes, but unless we know it & whoever does the 'wheel alignment' is aware of it AND your usual riding load, it's pretty much a 'take what you can get & put up with the handling AND THE POTENTIAL SAFETY ISSUES that riding your bike with incorrect caster & camber settings can bring!!

The fact that so many Spyders DO have steering & handling issues from the dealer teamed with the fact that this sort of suspension DOES vary camber & caster depending on where the suspension happens to be sitting when loaded strongly suggests that knowing what it should be & aiming for that when getting your alignment done might be helpful & potentially a whole lot safer - and before you say that camber & caster are set & cannot be changed, that's crap!! It's just not as easy as correcting the toe in/out or connecting it to BUDS & it does take some knowledge & skill to do it properly. But there are ways to adjust suspension height as well as adjusting the camber, caster, steering angles, steering pre-load, etc - all of which are regularly being adjusted & changed to suit various needs on other vehicles with similar suspension & steering that is supposedly 'set by the factory'!! Much of the time changing or correcting these 'pre-set' angles just require the operator being aware of what the settings are vs what they should be so that they can choose & install the correct shim, bush, or bolt in the right place; and that's even before you start getting into the real skills of 'wheel alignment' or the vast range of after-market adjustable suspension & steering components that is available today!!

 

[pauly1]

There are no caster or camber adjustment points. The A arms are bolted to frame weldments thru fixed bushings at the end of said A arms. The ball joint do not allow for shimming. I don't have the shop manual in front of me, but I do believe the ride height is stated in it.

Wayne

 

[jcthorne]

If the market really wanted adjustable caster and camber, an aftermarket supplier would need to design eccentric bolts for the a arm mounting points. None currently exist in the market that will fit. For Spyders that have not been damaged due to collision, toe adjustment and ride height settings are sufficient to get a stable ride with good handling characteristics and long tire wear. Adjustable caster and camber might indeed give better handling but since the parts to do so are not currently available, well, we don't really know. I suspect the market for such a product would be small and not worth the effort to design and manufacture.

 

[PMK]

If the market really wanted adjustable caster and camber, an aftermarket supplier would need to design eccentric bolts for the a arm mounting points. None currently exist in the market that will fit. For Spyders that have not been damaged due to collision, toe adjustment and ride height settings are sufficient to get a stable ride with good handling characteristics and long tire wear. Adjustable caster and camber might indeed give better handling but since the parts to do so are not currently available, well, we don't really know. I suspect the market for such a product would be small and not worth the effort to design and manufacture.

I designed what was needed to obtain full adjustment during alignment. Actually, designed new front suspension arms to reduce flex under braking also.

Ultimately, I just decided the performance level is fairly low and the machine is good as is.

PK

 

[PMK]

Something I came across accidentally.