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When you did a Cat delete, did you notice any power increase? I did...
- Thread starter Lew L
- Start date
I doubt there's actually any more 'power' per se, cos that's managed & controlled by the ECU, and if you haven't flashed or otherwise upgraded that at the same time as installing the cat delete, the before & after cat delete install should be very similar... 
However, while it was a fair while ago for me on my V-Twin Spyder, I've also done cat deletes on a few 1330's (both with & without ECU Upgrades) and IIRC, the before & after trap times clearly show that there's definitely more mid-range 'oomph' with the cat delete installed, but not at the top end, and without dyno figures to say otherwise, that could be simply due to the weight loss! Those bloody cat converters aren't light! :yikes:
However, while it was a fair while ago for me on my V-Twin Spyder, I've also done cat deletes on a few 1330's (both with & without ECU Upgrades) and IIRC, the before & after trap times clearly show that there's definitely more mid-range 'oomph' with the cat delete installed, but not at the top end, and without dyno figures to say otherwise, that could be simply due to the weight loss! Those bloody cat converters aren't light! :yikes:
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CloverHillCrawler
Active member
I haven't noticed much except it was a lot cooler while at lights and in traffic this summer. I have the baffle in without the plug.
No noticeable performance change but on my way home from Raleigh yesterday I had someone come up to me as I was getting gas and asked what exhaust I was running. I wasn't sure if it was a cop asking so I told him it was a stock exhaust (half truth..lol)
They guy picked up on it and said to me I have an RT and it has never sounded like that. When you pulled in I heard a throaty exhaust like a harley then I turned around and saw you pulling in on a Spyder. I wanted to know what you are running.
I then fessed up about the cat delete and the K+N air filter...LOL
No noticeable performance change but on my way home from Raleigh yesterday I had someone come up to me as I was getting gas and asked what exhaust I was running. I wasn't sure if it was a cop asking so I told him it was a stock exhaust (half truth..lol)
They guy picked up on it and said to me I have an RT and it has never sounded like that. When you pulled in I heard a throaty exhaust like a harley then I turned around and saw you pulling in on a Spyder. I wanted to know what you are running.
I then fessed up about the cat delete and the K+N air filter...LOL
carbonation
New member
No performance change at all.
A lot less heat though.
Great sound with the Big City Thunder baffle.
No decel pop.
A lot less heat though.
Great sound with the Big City Thunder baffle.
No decel pop.
The cat and muffler weigh about 16 or so pounds each and are easy to remove. Now if the circle of excess weight around my waist could be removed as easily, I probably wouldn't have had to get stage II to make this spyder really scoot! :roflblack:
Snoking1127
Well-known member
People selling delete pipes should be aware of this!
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ep...11-million-selling-defeat-devices-harming-air
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ep...11-million-selling-defeat-devices-harming-air
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troop
Well-known member
I actually did the opposite on my 2022 RT S2S. I initially purchased a Baldwin cat delete pipe and installed it with my OEM muffler. Wanting a bit more rumble, I purchased a Two Brothers 3K Carbon slip on. With the cat delete installed, it was a bit too loud with both the cat baffle/muffler Db killer installed. Being bored, I brought up some high heat black paint from the basement, and went to town with it on the OEM cat. Multiple coats/heat cycles later, I removed the cat delete and re-installed the OEM cat/primary muffler. I got the sound that I wanted, so I'm happy 
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racoon
Well-known member
Many years ago, when I was but a lad, I lived in Southern California. At the time you renewed the registration every other year, and had to have a smog inspection and test done.
At the time I was driving a 1967 VW Westfalia camper van, that had an after market engine and exhaust system.
The original engine was 1500 cc, 53 hp with a single down drafter carburetor that I think was a 30mm. The original exhaust and muffler was a bit pathetic.
The replacement engine was 1641 cc engine with upgraded heads with larger exhaust valves, and dual 40mm carbs. And I replaced the exhaust with a dual Thunderbird exhaust.
After the engine upgrade the next time I took it in to get tested the technician opened the door to the engine compartment, and said "You got a problem, there are too many carburetors!"
I asked if it was a problem, and he said he could test it, but he didn't know if it would pass.
So he put the sensor into the exhaust and hooked a clip to one of the spark plug wires, and had me start the engine.
The test involved running the engine at specific RPMs while letting the sensor test the exhaust.
After the test was complete he just stood there shaking his head.
He finally handed me the printed test results, and told me that it was the cleanest VW engine he had ever tested.
After I purchased my first Harley, you guessed it, I highly modified it. Cam carb pipes, the works. After smogging my vehicle, I asked the smog shop owner when did he think the state of California would get around to smogging motorcycles. He said probably not in our lifetime because they can't even keep up with the cars and trucks they require to be smogged now. The current state's Department of Motor Vehicles has become so overwhelmed and understaffed that it can't meet the needs of the public who need the services DMV requires. If it can't be done online, then you'll have to wait in line for hours. It's become a ****'n nightmare with no real solution in sight. Thank GOD for AAA.
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carbonation
New member
In comparison, the total motorcycle community is a small fish in a big ocean. We are not even on the EPA radar. They want the easy kill...coal rolling diesels, OTR trucks, etc.
EdMat
Well-known member
If you want to know for sure there are several apps that can tell you. Just do multiple before and after test under as close conditions as possible. The one I use and like is Car Test on ios.
My results with the swap were a better tone without major increase in volume, reduction of heat during stop and go traffic, and performance that was just too close to call.
My results with the swap were a better tone without major increase in volume, reduction of heat during stop and go traffic, and performance that was just too close to call.
CloverHillCrawler
Active member
And they need to with those coal rolling idiots, On my trip last week heading in to tazewell got stuck behind an idiot who had a white silverado that was jacked up high enough and wide enough on the tires that it didn't even fit in the lane.
He kept slowing down so he could gag it and spit out a cloud and had one of the big diffuser box exhaust that spreads his smoke out. The whole back right quarter panel and tailgate of this white truck was coated so thick in soot from the diesel, you could no longer see the paint on the truck.
I made sure to stay back off of him and eventually just stopped to take a break and let him go on ahead because I didn't want to get caught in the trail of crap he was leaving behind him.
BajaRon
Well-known member
There is a lot of talk about how the ECU will defeat any benefits which might be had with changes to the intake and exhaust. But this is not true. It's not like the ECU is programmed for 115 hp and will never allow the engine to produce more. The ECU's job and programming, in this respect, is to optimize engine performance based on readings from all the sensors BRP has installed. Basically working to maintain, among other things, the Air / Fuel ratio programmed into it.
If you free up the intake and exhaust, air volume potential is increased. The ECU is designed to compensate for this by introducing more fuel to maintain that A/F ratio. Though the A/F ratio is not altered, the volume entering the cylinder is increased, thereby increasing the power available. Freer flowing also helps this happen more quickly when the throttle is applied, increasing throttle response.
I'm not saying this is a large change. Especially if all you do is free up the exhaust without doing something to allow a freer flowing intake. But to say that the ECU will work to nullify improvements is not accurate.
The OEM A/F ratio, as in all modern vehicles, is on the lean side to reduce emissions. This is also necessary to keep the cat healthy. But it is less than optimum for producing power. Flashing the ECU adjusts the A/F ratio to optimize for more power.
If you free up the intake and exhaust, air volume potential is increased. The ECU is designed to compensate for this by introducing more fuel to maintain that A/F ratio. Though the A/F ratio is not altered, the volume entering the cylinder is increased, thereby increasing the power available. Freer flowing also helps this happen more quickly when the throttle is applied, increasing throttle response.
I'm not saying this is a large change. Especially if all you do is free up the exhaust without doing something to allow a freer flowing intake. But to say that the ECU will work to nullify improvements is not accurate.
The OEM A/F ratio, as in all modern vehicles, is on the lean side to reduce emissions. This is also necessary to keep the cat healthy. But it is less than optimum for producing power. Flashing the ECU adjusts the A/F ratio to optimize for more power.
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Except in some cases, like our Spyders, where the ECU DEFINITELY limits the top end power output by limiting WOT. :lecturef_smilie:
There's threads, vids, and pics of it here on the Forum. In standard ECU trim, while you can benefit from the increased airflow through the mid-range and as the engine approaches peak power & WOT, but then AT WOT, both the duration of WOT allowed and the throttle opening itself are reduced - some erroneously refer to this as a 'speed limiter' or restriction, but it's actually the ECU doing it's programmed thing and effectively restricting the maximum power output. :banghead:
So unless you've had an ECU Upgrade done on your Spyder to remove that limitation/restriction, you really won't be getting anything much in the way of 'extra power' at peak levels out of a Cat Delete - the ECU just won't let you! :lecturef_smilie:
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BajaRon
Well-known member
Yes, this is the same kind of absolute limit the ECU places on RPM (or Redline). The same can be said for handling limits with the Nanny. These have nothing to do with potential improvements in throttle response and power from intake/exhaust changes. And you can overcome this WOT limit with a Pedal box or Commander unit.
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