Weird Spyder Behavior this afternoon - sudden power loss & 'bucking'! Any ideas?

[VryGryFox]

This afternoon, I was out for a ride when suddenly the engine on my 2023 Spyder RT/L (with 2k miles) started to lose power and started to 'buck'. I was in the midst of traffic and was worried about getting run over.

After about 45 seconds the problem seemed to go away. However, about 12 or so miles later, the behavior repeated. I pulled off the road and let the engine idle for bit. Everything seemed to settle down, so I took off again and decided to visit the dealer.

At the dealer I described what had happened and they recommended that I drop off the Spyder and they would run diagnostics. I decided to wait till Monday since that would be the earliest they could run the tests and the Spyder seemed to be running well.

When I started the Spyder to go home a message popped up asserting a 'VSS" error had been detected and then the message went away.

However, I quickly noticed that the engine seemed to be running more smoothly, quieter, and in addition, the throttle response seemed to be sharper.

I took the Spyder to my favorite twisty road down to the Perdido River (and back). The Spyder seems to be running better than ever; it felt like I might have made the fastest run ever down to the river and back.

Any suggestions or theories as to what caused todays behavior?

 

[Bfromla]

Burp of bad gas something that cleared in shutdown congrats too, as most dealers closed Mondays, would been more waiting
hopefully will not come back & keep on rocking

 

[Peter Aawen]

It might not be the cause of your problem, but there again... Many have thought it can't be the battery, only it really WAS!!

And since it can't hurt, and only takes a short while to test, I reckon that as always with these things, check & load test the battery FIRST, before taking it in/leaving it with a dealer!! And this ESPECIALLY applies to those post 2020 Spyders that might have the dodgy, sub-standard, and poor excuses for batteries that BRP/Can Am is installing in the factory these days!! :cus:

Any load testing should ensure that your battery voltage never drops below 12 volts, not even while cranking the starter. If it does, the chances are that you'll get oddly uncalled for VSS errors; ABS errors; Park Brake errors; &/or a cascade of seemingly unrelated errors &/or codes for no apparent reason, possibly even if your Spyder's engine starts and runs fine, because this is all related to the battery just not having enough green steam in it to power the engine AND all the computers & sensors at the same time...

So, check the battery first, and while voltage as low as 10.5 volts while cranking may be OK for other, less power-hungry machines, it's not for our extremely power hungry Spyders, so make sure that the voltage never drops below 12 volts or you risk these sorts of cascading errors &/or codes!

Just Sayin'

Good Luck!

 

[Mikey]

I would start by running a can of your favorite carb cleaner through it. Not that I wouldn't also have it hooked up to Buds and run some Dianostics on it, to make sure all the ponies are playing well in the barn. I got some bad fuel a couple years ago and it acted just as you say, a bottle of seafoam blew it out of it! Good luck!

 

[VryGryFox]

I have been getting VSS errors on startup occasionally. I took the spyder to Batteries Plus, they ran a test, and the attachment is the result. They said the battery looked good... There are no fault codes shown in the electronic control center.

Any comments?

 

[Peter Aawen]

View attachment 211118

I have been getting VSS errors on startup occasionally. I took the spyder to Batteries Plus, they ran a test, and the attachment is the result. They said the battery looked good... There are no fault codes shown in the electronic control center.

Any comments?

I'm not sure that test helps too much, apart from confirming to us all that your particular battery is NOT one that is likely to work well for a Spyder for too long...

Spyders are EXTREMELY power hungry, and if you expect it to last & work properly for anything more than about 6 months (funnily enough, that '6 months' is the warranty period on a new Factory supplied OEM Spyder battery! :sour: ) they NEED a battery that has a minimum specification of 350 CCA & 21 A/hrs...

To load test a Spyder battery properly, you should find someone who doesn't just connect it up to a car-biased battery load tester (cos for many of them, 10.5v means it's 'OK', but that simply WILL NOT cut it for a Spyder!! ) but rather, find someone who knows how to check/ensure that your battery voltage never drops below 12 volts, not even while cranking the starter. If it does drop below 12v at any stage, especially if it does this while cranking the starter, then there's a fairly high chance that at some stage, it either just won't work for you, or you'll get oddly uncalled for VSS errors; ABS errors; Park Brake errors; &/or a cascade of seemingly unrelated errors &/or codes for no apparent reason, possibly even if your Spyder's engine starts and runs fine, because this is all related to the battery just not having enough green steam in it to power the engine AND all the computers & sensors at the same time...

So again/still, while it might not be the cause of your 'bucking problems', it doesn't look to me like you've excluded the battery as being behind at least some of the problems your Spyder is experiencing - and I do hope you weren't charged anything for that 'pretty unhelpful' battery test... AFAIKS, all that particular test has confirmed is that you are still running the factory original Battery or a direct replacement - batteries with lesser capacity that have repeatedly been shown to be 'less than adequate' for the power needs of a Spyder, and are often the root cause of the same sort of problems you've described here.

But don't just take my word for it, you might want to check out some of other threads here discussing this - do a search on 'Battery', and make sure you tick the 'Search Titles Only' box in the drop-down list that'll appear, there's a bunch of stuff here discussing the 2020+ 'less than adequate' OEM batteries that BRP is putting in Spyders these days...

Here's just one of many:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...ould-this-be-a-weak-Battery&highlight=battery

Just Sayin' - again...

 

[Isopedella]

I would check the battery terminals are firmly attached.

 

[AndysF3S]

View attachment 211118

I have been getting VSS errors on startup occasionally. I took the spyder to Batteries Plus, they ran a test, and the attachment is the result. They said the battery looked good... There are no fault codes shown in the electronic control center.

Any comments?

The battery test shows that you have a battery that is rated at 300 CCA and only put out 287 CCA. The correct battery is supposed to be 350 CCA so (as mentioned above) it is possible that this battery does not provide enough CCA to prevent your starting voltage from dropping far enough that it triggers the VSS code. At its best showing 13.08 volts it won't improve; whereas batteries that are healthy may show a higher than rated CCA just after being charged. Continue to monitor the battery and if you can hook up a voltmeter to the battery and hit the starter, if the starting voltage drops to or below 10.5 volts (whlle cranking) you will need to replace with a new higher rated battery.
The 287 CCA is 82% of a new battery and a 350 CCA battery may test higher than 350CCA just after it was charged. JMO

 

[Bfromla]

Oh ya don't forget STAR washers

 

[WRCLVR]

I am surprised that with all the issues with batteries (300-350 CCA ) some enterprising person hasn't come up with a battery box/holder and extension cables to put a 500-600 CCA battery in the frunk. Seems to me that would solve all the issues of starting and running power. Then the only other issue would be the charging system. Which seems to me to be a 2 fold issue... lol.
If you used a lithium battery for this, the weight would be similar to the OEM battery then.
Thoughts?

 

[Peter Aawen]

It's really only those Spyders with factory issued cheap arsed 300 CCA excuses for a battery that have any of these problems early in their lives; those Spyders fitted with the better quality 350 CCA batteries can, with 'normal' usage & maintenance, basically expect them to last and work well for at least 3-4 years, and many of us have had our OEM batteries last close to double that.

So there's no real need for or to install a 500-600 CCA battery, and then very likely find that the standard charging system isn't really up to looking after it, maybe just won't keep it fully charged anyway!! All that's really required is for BRP not to be so bloody cheap as to install a sub-standard battery in the first place, and instead install a battery that has at least some chance of lasting longer than 6 months and of actually doing the job of providing adequate power to properly operate a Spyder during that time, ie. for a period longer than the warranty - nb: the warranty on new/OEM batteries is only 6 months, and many of the 2020+ batteries don't even last that long!

 

[DickB]

Peter, I don't agree with your statement that the battery voltage should not drop below 12V when cranking, or that using a battery tester is not appropriate. The Service Manual for my 2014 RSS says differently.

 

[DickB]

On my Ryker loss of power and "bucking" as you described was symptomatic of a bad fuel pump. I unfortunately had two of them go bad.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Peter, I don't agree with your statement that the battery voltage should not drop below 12V when cranking, or that using a battery tester is not appropriate. The Service Manual for my 2014 RSS says differently.

View attachment 211612

That's your prerogative Dick, altho I should remind you that there's quite a few other places where the Spyder Service Manuals are also blatantly wrong!

However, while that 10 or so volts under starting load might be fine on older/other vehicles that aren't anywhere near as power hungry as our Spyders are, there's a growing number of Spyder Owners out there who have discovered (to their dismay!) that all the computers and electronics on their Spyders just won't work too well if their battery's voltage ever drops that low under load; and that unless their battery maintains about 12 volts under starting load, their Spyder probably work too well either, if at all.

Back in the early days of my Spyder experience, I too thought that 10 - 10.5 volts under load would be fine; after all, the manual said it'd be OK and that'd been fine on just about every other vehicle I'd ever driven/worked on before, plus, it was a widely recognised 'Good' voltage in the industry, had been for many years, still is in many cases, albeit generally only for less power hungry machines these days... In fact, IIRC, I've even suggested that very figure on this Forum, but the last time I did that here was quite a few years ago now - I've learnt otherwise since then, the hard way, both on my own Spyder and on many other Spyders too, as well as from the numerous reports here & on other Spyder Forums - a Spyder's battery with a voltage that drops anything much lower than 12 Volts &/or as low 10 to 10.5 volts under starting load just doesn't work too well/for too long in our power hungry Spyders, and the symptoms of this battery voltage shortfall are often those described in this thread &/or a cascade of things that can include VSS Warnings, Brake Warnings, Limp Home Mode, or possibly even one or many Error Codes.

Just Sayin'

 

[djh3]

Beware, some of these so called battery tests are nothing more than a continuity test. You need an actual load test which will be a larger type machine, not a little hand held looking thing.

 

[Tomguitar]

This afternoon, I was out for a ride when suddenly the engine on my 2023 Spyder RT/L (with 2k miles) started to lose power and started to 'buck'. I was in the midst of traffic and was worried about getting run over.

After about 45 seconds the problem seemed to go away. However, about 12 or so miles later, the behavior repeated. I pulled off the road and let the engine idle for bit. Everything seemed to settle down, so I took off again and decided to visit the dealer.

At the dealer I described what had happened and they recommended that I drop off the Spyder and they would run diagnostics. I decided to wait till Monday since that would be the earliest they could run the tests and the Spyder seemed to be running well.

When I started the Spyder to go home a message popped up asserting a 'VSS" error had been detected and then the message went away.

However, I quickly noticed that the engine seemed to be running more smoothly, quieter, and in addition, the throttle response seemed to be sharper.

I took the Spyder to my favorite twisty road down to the Perdido River (and back). The Spyder seems to be running better than ever; it felt like I might have made the fastest run ever down to the river and back.

Any suggestions or theories as to what caused todays behavior?

I started a similar post almost a year ago. Without going into a long tale of woe, my problem ended up being a spark plug, not cables, which at first was intermittent then went solidly bad. 2013 ST limited with 20K. The dealer involved took months to find it. After they changed the plugs it happened to them while test riding (bucking). They wanted to change the throttle body. 3 grand. I said no way! I took the Spyder back to the original dealer in Las Vegas. They had it apart in 15 min. Great Spyder tech John. He showed me the disconnected spark plug. The San Diego tech had left it loose. 4 months and 700 miles later with trailer, my ST was fixed. Mo

Moral of the story, have a good tech to trust. My options in San Diego,CA are very limited. Wish I still had shop or garage. Oh well, it’s happy riding now. I love my Spyder!!

 

[BajaRon]

View attachment 211118

I have been getting VSS errors on startup occasionally. I took the spyder to Batteries Plus, they ran a test, and the attachment is the result. They said the battery looked good... There are no fault codes shown in the electronic control center.

Any comments?

Though not convinced this is a battery issue (not ruling it out either, mind you). I'm not too impressed with this battery test. What is voltage under load? That's what you want to see.

 

[baxter]

Spyders like a good reliable power source and any battery that gets some age on it will trigger that code at start up then go away.

 

[vito1943]

I had the same problem with my 2021 RT. Turns out it was a defective speed sensor. An easy fix once the dealer could get the right replacement part, but that took over 3 months. Just to be safe, I also had a new battery installed as the OEM battery was 3 years old. No problems since then.