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BajaRon,
Thank you very much for your help!
Thank you very much for your help!
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Warped rotor?
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KX5062
Active member
The rotors can warp on one side only if the caliper/pads stick and cause the brake pads to drag and overheat the rotors. If the caliper is sticking on the one side and overheating, that will cause the problem you describe.
The good news is, it's an easy fix however. A full disassembly and a good cleaning and lubrication of the appropriate parts should solve the problem, if it exists. (Many shops just throw parts at a problem without going the extra yard to figure out why.)
The bad news would be the rotor would need to be replaced again, but not necessarily the pads. That would depend on the wear. I would suggest, like Ron said, replacing it all with EBC rather than OEM. OEM is Brembo, which is a top notch company, but who knows if BRP/Brembo is sourcing their parts in China and just relabeling them under license.
(The original Spyder brakes were a kind of Chinese Brembo knock-off that were rather garbage.)
The good news is, it's an easy fix however. A full disassembly and a good cleaning and lubrication of the appropriate parts should solve the problem, if it exists. (Many shops just throw parts at a problem without going the extra yard to figure out why.)
The bad news would be the rotor would need to be replaced again, but not necessarily the pads. That would depend on the wear. I would suggest, like Ron said, replacing it all with EBC rather than OEM. OEM is Brembo, which is a top notch company, but who knows if BRP/Brembo is sourcing their parts in China and just relabeling them under license.
(The original Spyder brakes were a kind of Chinese Brembo knock-off that were rather garbage.)
BajaRon
Well-known member
The calipers are Brembo. Very good quality. But I believe the rotors are BRP. Part #'s have changed at times. But I am not convinced there has been any real change in the OEM rotors since the beginning.
PinkRosePetal
New member
Contrary to popular belief, warped rotors don't normally cause a brake vibration because as the warp travels through the pads the brake fluid simply moves out of one caliper side across to the other caliper side so there is no gripping/releasing of the rotor. However, there is a tendency for the rotor to contact the pads with the alternate high spots of the wiggle and this gradually causes patches of the rotor to be a little more worn. These worn areas are slightly thinner so the rotor will now be of varying thickness. It is the varying thickness rotor which causes the wheel to judder as on each revolution of the wheel the brake is applied with varying grip.
But, there is an issue with Spyders where the hub flange where the rotor clamps against is not machined as accurately as it should be, this causes the rotor to wiggle much like a warp and it produces similar uneven thickness of the rotor as the rotor taps the pads twice on every wheel revolution. The judder then becomes twice wheel speed. I think it is likely where folk believe they have multiple instances of warpage that they have an inaccurate hub which causes uneven wear on the rotor no matter how many times they change them.
Checking the rotor for warpage is simple, you need a dial test indicator (DTI), quite cheaply purchased at a tool store, attach it to the suspension anywhere that is suitable, place the gauge plunger against the rotor and turn the wheel.
Checking for varying rotor thickness is also easy, you need a micrometer and simply measure the thickness at various points.
Now, checking the hub flange for run-out is very tricky because the wheel studs are in the way and likely need to be removed.
So you need an alternative to identify whether you have a warp or a bad hub.... Remove the rotor and wipe it clean. You need a straight edge and feeler gauges or very good eyesight! Feel the rotor for a lip at its edge where the pads have not been contacting the rotor and identify where around the rotor the lip is at its maximum on one side of the rotor. Mark that point. Turn the rotor over and check for a lip on the other side and identify its maximum. Mark it. If the maximums are diametrically opposite on opposite sides it is likely you have a hub flange inaccuracy.
If the maximum wear patches are random you'll likely have a warped rotor.
It is of course possible that you have a very even warp which is exactly 180° out but extremely unlikely.
I do have a video of the inaccurate hub issue and its remachining also showing a before and after rotor run-out. Unfortunately Spyderlovers is unable to accept video uploads.
For info, maximum allowable rotor run-out is 4 thou (0.004") but this is a wiggle not a thickness variation.
Good luck with finding an accurate solution. The issue is not uncommon.
But, there is an issue with Spyders where the hub flange where the rotor clamps against is not machined as accurately as it should be, this causes the rotor to wiggle much like a warp and it produces similar uneven thickness of the rotor as the rotor taps the pads twice on every wheel revolution. The judder then becomes twice wheel speed. I think it is likely where folk believe they have multiple instances of warpage that they have an inaccurate hub which causes uneven wear on the rotor no matter how many times they change them.
Checking the rotor for warpage is simple, you need a dial test indicator (DTI), quite cheaply purchased at a tool store, attach it to the suspension anywhere that is suitable, place the gauge plunger against the rotor and turn the wheel.
Checking for varying rotor thickness is also easy, you need a micrometer and simply measure the thickness at various points.
Now, checking the hub flange for run-out is very tricky because the wheel studs are in the way and likely need to be removed.
So you need an alternative to identify whether you have a warp or a bad hub.... Remove the rotor and wipe it clean. You need a straight edge and feeler gauges or very good eyesight! Feel the rotor for a lip at its edge where the pads have not been contacting the rotor and identify where around the rotor the lip is at its maximum on one side of the rotor. Mark that point. Turn the rotor over and check for a lip on the other side and identify its maximum. Mark it. If the maximums are diametrically opposite on opposite sides it is likely you have a hub flange inaccuracy.
If the maximum wear patches are random you'll likely have a warped rotor.
It is of course possible that you have a very even warp which is exactly 180° out but extremely unlikely.
I do have a video of the inaccurate hub issue and its remachining also showing a before and after rotor run-out. Unfortunately Spyderlovers is unable to accept video uploads.
For info, maximum allowable rotor run-out is 4 thou (0.004") but this is a wiggle not a thickness variation.
Good luck with finding an accurate solution. The issue is not uncommon.
View from behind
New member
Thanks to everyone who has replied. Bajaron suggested switching the front rotors and see if the problem moves with the switch. I have switched them and the problem followed, so I will be replacing the rotors with the higher quality EBC rotors and pads.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
PinkRosePetal
New member
You will need new rotors but check out the hubs too or you may be in for new rotors again in the same mileage as you've already covered. Could become an expensive service item.
Buy that DTI and check the rotor run-out after you've fitted the new rotors. Remember, 0.004" is maximum, that requires the hub and flange to be accurate and spotlessly clean within approximately 0.0005" - half a thou. The hair on your head (if you have any!
) is about 4 thou so that'll give you an idea of the necessary cleanliness and accuracy required.
Buy that DTI and check the rotor run-out after you've fitted the new rotors. Remember, 0.004" is maximum, that requires the hub and flange to be accurate and spotlessly clean within approximately 0.0005" - half a thou. The hair on your head (if you have any!
) is about 4 thou so that'll give you an idea of the necessary cleanliness and accuracy required.
BajaRon
Well-known member
While I agree that there have been some hub clearance problems with some Spyders. I would think that if this were the case, the OP would end up with 2 warped rotors in the swap.
JayBros
Well-known member
From PRP's second paragraph in post #25 and the OP switched rotors just to check the second rotor confirmed the problem but was not run long enough to warp the second one. If PRP is correct and the OP is in fact the owner of a poorly machined hub, when EBC rotors are installed the problem will still be there from wheel rotation #1.
safecracker
Active member
Great discussion folks. :clap:
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View from behind
New member
Just a follow up, replaced both rotors and pads with EBC components and after several thousand miles the problem is totally gone.
Bottomline2000
New member
If the problem appears again its more than likely a caliper issues. I would get it checked while still under warranty and before it destroys new parts. Someone in another group had a similar problem and she had a piston issue in one caliper. Me being a DIYer, I would use an infrared thermometer to check the temp of the rotors after a brief ride and see if there is any abnormal heat build up in either.
BajaRon
Well-known member
This is very good news! One of the most difficult things I have ever attempted is trying to diagnose a Spyder issue over the phone, or on a forum like this. I'm always concerned that I might have missed something or somehow sent the customer off on the wrong path. I am very happy that we got this right the first time. Having good input from the owner goes a long way towards a correct diagnosis and solution. I don't think you'll have any more problems. In my experience, if there is a hub clearance issue, the warpage it creates is immediate. You don't have to wait for it.
BajaRon
Well-known member
Material transfer is a legitimate point, and can create the same symptoms as a warped rotor. A dial indicator will record the hump which, if it is a true warpage issue, the opposite side of the rotor should show an equal negative indication. If that is not the case, then it is probably a material transfer issue and not a true warpage problem.
The OEM BRP rotors are more porous than they probably should be. And there may be a fair amount of variation from rotor to rotor. That's hard to say. Just speculation on my part. The problem being that if you are able to successfully remove the hump from the material buildup area. It is likely to return. So, in many cases, it is a temporary fix.
The EBC rotors are much less porous, and of a harder, more warp resistant metallurgy. I have been impressed by the fact that no customer has had a problem with either warpage or material transfer (that I know of) after switching to EBC rotors. And some customers had been through 3 sets of OEM rotors before coming to me. Couple this with the fact that the EBC rotors are less expensive than the OEM. And you really do have a great option to the factory components.
I think this issue is pretty rare. All ABS systems pulse the brakes, when engaged, by design. These pulses are so quick, they are seamless to the rider. But if the ABS computer has an issue, it could engage at a slower pulse rate, giving the impression of a warped rotor. If the ABS system engages when it isn't supposed to, like during a normal braking sequence, that would definitely give the false impression of a warped rotor. Though I certainly don't hear about every issue occurring in all Spyders. I do hear a lot. And I've never heard of this happening with a Spyder. Though, of course, it could.
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PinkRosePetal
New member
Would you come back when you've covered perhaps 12-15k miles and let us know how you're getting on? I'd be interested to know as would other folk, I'm sure. :thumbup:
pegasus1300
Well-known member
Is it possible for you to post a link to that video? I'm sure may would appreciate it.
PinkRosePetal
New member
I'm not sure. I made the video to send to my dealer so it's just on my computer. I don't put videos or pictures on any host site. I've actually got three vids of two different Spyders with the same problem. One is a before showing the run-out on the dti and the second is after machining also showing the run-out on one bike. The third is a step by step on the second Spyder checking the disc using the DTI, checking the hub face, dismantling, machining and reassembly followed by a final check of the disc on the DTI.
I can't remember the exact mileages but on one bike it was approx 4k miles with a run-out of about 10thou before machining and 2thou after. The second bike had covered many more miles, I think about 17k, its run-out was also about 10thou which corrected to 4thou but that was including the uneven wear on the disc. My dealer replaced the discs and the bike is at approximately 24k now with no recurring wheel judder.
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