VSS fault - Spyder not starting

[Firefly]

okay... so I called a buddy of mine who is an electronic engineer here in Silicon Valley to help me figure out this grounding issue... and what we discovered is that the wires coming from the ballast to the foglights has so much "noise" that is messes up the computer system in the spyder causing it to shut down with the VSS fault... I guess this is why Custom Dynamics pointed out that the ballasts should not touch the frame or any metal (they are now located in the console area)... my wires coming from the ballast to the foglights were tie wrapped to the frame but wrapped in wire loom... and still it caused electrical noise... we then experimented by pulling the wires away from the frame, start the bike, and turn the foglights on/off, and the bike kept on running as normal.... we then took the wire from one of the foglights and pressed it on the frame, and pressed the foglight switch on/off, and the bike turned off with the VSS fault... even with the addition of a ground wire from the coil to the frame... so tomorrow I will install an anodized/heat resistant wire loom over the current wire loom and make sure it does not touch any metal and just have it suspended under the covers... I hope this does the trick... ray:

thanks
Dennis

Thanks for doing all the trial and error... this will help many doing future installs to know what to do.:thumbup:

 

[bone crusher]

You should tell the manufacturer of the HIDs your discovery as perhaps something should be added to them so that others will be able to avoid this problem going forward...looks like more wire insulation is needed?

okay... so I called a buddy of mine who is an electronic engineer here in Silicon Valley to help me figure out this grounding issue... and what we discovered is that the wires coming from the ballast to the foglights has so much "noise" that is messes up the computer system in the spyder causing it to shut down with the VSS fault... I guess this is why Custom Dynamics pointed out that the ballasts should not touch the frame or any metal (they are now located in the console area)... my wires coming from the ballast to the foglights were tie wrapped to the frame but wrapped in wire loom... and still it caused electrical noise... we then experimented by pulling the wires away from the frame, start the bike, and turn the foglights on/off, and the bike kept on running as normal.... we then took the wire from one of the foglights and pressed it on the frame, and pressed the foglight switch on/off, and the bike turned off with the VSS fault... even with the addition of a ground wire from the coil to the frame... so tomorrow I will install an anodized/heat resistant wire loom over the current wire loom and make sure it does not touch any metal and just have it suspended under the covers... I hope this does the trick... ray:

thanks
Dennis

 

[Firefly]

Seems the Spyder electronics are pretty sensitive to outside interference. If such external electronics can cause a VSS fault - I wonder what other electronic devices could affect. Something to keep in the back of our minds should strange faults or problems arise. Another good reason to only install ONE modification at a time.

Perhaps shielding the ballasts somehow would help too?

 

[leo76dragon]

You should tell the manufacturer of the HIDs your discovery as perhaps something should be added to them so that others will be able to avoid this problem going forward...looks like more wire insulation is needed?

These are from Custom Dynamics.... probably the same ones as NMN... I like them a lot, visibilty is 10x better than stock... so I'll do my best to make it work with the spyder.... I'm sure the hid headlight ballasts are causing a lot of interference as well so I'll try to double up on the wire loom on that as well....

 

[leo76dragon]

well it didnt work, so out came the HID foglights, back with the stock headlights... now it looks odd, bright white headlights, and stock dim foglights... probably too much draw on the system.... it was driving my ECM nuts... it was like the accelerator was stuck...... even with the coil grounded..... I'm hoping it's a ballast issue... gonna return it and try another... we'll see what happens 2nd time around.........
:dontknow::dontknow::dontknow:

 

[leo76dragon]

well I got a second set of ballasts from Custom Dynamics, installed it... and.... same problems... VSS faults, and the stuck accelerator issue... the Spyder just doesnt like a second set of HIDs... even with the ground wire from the coil and a fully charged battery, so back goes the original foglight bulbs and the Spyder is happy again... I guess I'm gonna have to live without the 4 HIDs... :gaah:

 

[Tom in NM]

really late to this party . . . .

well I got a second set of ballasts from Custom Dynamics, installed it... and.... same problems... VSS faults, and the stuck accelerator issue... the Spyder just doesnt like a second set of HIDs... even with the ground wire from the coil and a fully charged battery, so back goes the orignal foglight bulbs and the Spyder is happy again... I guess I'm gonna have to live without the 4 HIDs... :gaah:

. . . . but, I was wondering if you could tell if any of your other mods ( like the alarm ) in conjunction with with HID lights/ballasts triggered this problem?

This is not my field, but the ballast may be boosting interference or effecting or inter-reacting with one of your other mods - again, the alarm system being the prime candidate.

Tom

 

[Motavar]

Extra extra late to this party..

I found the same issue with my 09 GS (RS/Phantom).
HIDS in the head lights and fog lights. When the fog lights are on and I attempt to start the Spyder I get VSS/Check Engine warnings.

I've also experienced the high RPMs on start with the fogs on.
Also experienced a complete shutdown on the highway when I turned the fog lights on. (had to pull over and pull the relay out).


* I'm going to rewire the fogs to directly to a new relay and pull power directly from the battery instead of using the Spyders wiring.

 

[Lamonster]

I found the same issue with my 09 GS (RS/Phantom).
HIDS in the head lights and fog lights. When the fog lights are on and I attempt to start the Spyder I get VSS/Check Engine warnings.

I've also experienced the high RPMs on start with the fogs on.
Also experienced a complete shutdown on the highway when I turned the fog lights on. (had to pull over and pull the relay out).


* I'm going to rewire the fogs to directly to a new relay and pull power directly from the battery instead of using the Spyders wiring.

And that's why some of us pay a little more for the ESI HID's. They work right out of the box without rewiring or trying to work around the cheaper aftermarket kits.

Plug and Play from ESI :thumbup:

 

[SpyderWolf]

And that's why some of us pay a little more for the ESI HID's. They work right out of the box without rewiring or trying to work around the cheaper aftermarket kits.

Plug and Play from ESI :thumbup:

:dontknow:
I thought Leo was using the Custom Dynamic's ones, which should be the same as the ESI ones, and he couldn't get his to work either. Yet I have seen quite a few others, like yours, that don't have any problems at all. Does this sound like it is mainly an issue of how they are installed, whether that be grounding or anything else?

 

[Lamonster]

:dontknow:
I thought Leo was using the Custom Dynamic's ones, which should be the same as the ESI ones, and he couldn't get his to work either. Yet I have seen quite a few others, like yours, that don't have any problems at all. Does this sound like it is mainly an issue of how they are installed, whether that be grounding or anything else?

Looks like cheap ebay HID's to me :dontknow:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=275206&postcount=1

 

[SpyderWolf]

well I got a second set of ballasts from Custom Dynamics, installed it... and.... same problems... VSS faults, and the stuck accelerator issue... the Spyder just doesnt like a second set of HIDs... even with the ground wire from the coil and a fully charged battery, so back goes the original foglight bulbs and the Spyder is happy again... I guess I'm gonna have to live without the 4 HIDs... :gaah:

Looks like cheap ebay HID's to me :dontknow:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=275206&postcount=1

Sorry Lamont, I should have quoted the post I was talking about like I am doing now. This is Leo, the original poster's last comment on the issue. He was trying to use the Custom Dynamic's HID kits, and apparently couldn't get them to work even after switching out the ballasts. :dontknow:

I already know the other thread quite well.

 

[Lamonster]

Sorry Lamont, I should have quoted the post I was talking about like I am doing now. This is Leo, the original poster's last comment on the issue. He was trying to use the Custom Dynamic's HID kits, and apparently couldn't get them to work even after switching out the ballasts. :dontknow:

I already know the other thread quite well.

Motavar bumped this thread up from Feb. and that's who I was responding to seeing he just made that other post.

You're right, the CD are the same and they can have issues too but when you buy HID's from a Spyder vendor you're going to get help when things don't go right because they know the Spyder. That's worth something right there. :doorag:

 

[SpyderWolf]

Motavar bumped this thread up from Feb. and that's who I was responding to seeing he just made that other post.

You're right, the CD are the same and they can have issues too but when you buy HID's from a Spyder vendor you're going to get help when things don't go right because they know the Spyder. That's worth something right there. :doorag:

Thanks, and I understand that completely. I didn't pay attention to the original posting dates either. pps:

 

[leo76dragon]

:dontknow:
I thought Leo was using the Custom Dynamic's ones, which should be the same as the ESI ones, and he couldn't get his to work either. Yet I have seen quite a few others, like yours, that don't have any problems at all. Does this sound like it is mainly an issue of how they are installed, whether that be grounding or anything else?

sorry I didnt post a conclusion from last year... but to get it working, I ended placing the ballasts in areas where it's not touching the frame and I used a lot of wire loom to keep the wires away from the frame... and I must have had a bad bulb, so I used another set from a different company and the HIDs are working great now... Custom Dynamics helped out a little bit, but in the end I just figured it myself... hopefully... LOL... but no problems and the bike works great... :2thumbs:

 

[SpyderWolf]

sorry I didnt post a conclusion from last year... but to get it working, I ended placing the ballasts in areas where it's not touching the frame and I used a lot of wire loom to keep the wires away from the frame... and I must have had a bad bulb, so I used another set from a different company and the HIDs are working great now... Custom Dynamics helped out a little bit, but in the end I just figured it myself... hopefully... LOL... but no problems and the bike works great... :2thumbs:

Thanks for the update Leo, I am glad to hear you were able to get things sorted out. :thumbup:

 

[Machinegunner]

We had the same problems with failure to start and fault codes. But as I said in a previous post, when I installed 30amp relay and a direct fused line from the battery all interference to computers went away. Frenchies HID headlights are triggered with the time delay relay and they light as soon as the key is turned on. This way high voltage spike is over before trying to start the motor. It also leaves the headlights on for about 20 sec. after the key is turned off, just like an expensive car. machinegunner

 

[bruiser]

:dontknow:
I thought Leo was using the Custom Dynamic's ones, which should be the same as the ESI ones, and he couldn't get his to work either. Yet I have seen quite a few others, like yours, that don't have any problems at all. Does this sound like it is mainly an issue of how they are installed, whether that be grounding or anything else?

Sounds that way to me. Shielded wire, though expensive, may solve the problem. In general, good grounding is a must. Ground points have to be clean and tight in order to work properly. Wire size is important too. I've been called to work on machines that someone has modified in some way or tried to fix and had a poor ground. An easy fix if you just pay attention. If you add a ground somewhere other than the main ground or buss, and you can't clean the grounding point try using an internal toothed washer between the wire and frame. The teeth will dig in to the metal. I've used this trick before.

 

[Jbandauskas]

Hello All,
I am in search of a solution to get my Spyder started... I have only 700 miles on my Phantom Spyder and it won't start... I'm getting a VSS fault when I try to start my Spyder and it doesnt start..... the engine can rotate over and then just cuts off.... I'm hoping that if I take it to the dealer he doesnt blame my light modifications, and or kewlmetal intake... any suggestions would be great... thank you!
:helpsmilie:

Dennis

I was having issues starting. I had a metal key ring on the key. I replaced with a plastic ring and have have not had any more issues. Possible interference?