Using brakes vs downshifting and clutch wear?

[finless]

OK... Here is where I am coming from with this question.

For years on my VW's and even a 2004 Mazda PU truck, I never downshifted and just used the breaks. I only used the clutch on certain shifting needs and in fact did not use the clutch at all shifting from 2>5 when just being in normal conditions like getting on the freeway!
My clutches on these cars outlasted the engine! We are talking over 200+K miles and then some! I noticed my SM5 will easily shift from 2>5 without the clutch if I time the throttle and shift lever properly. In fact I can get less of a "shift clunk" from 2nd to 3rd than with using the clutch!

So I have always used the theory that it is cheaper to do break jobs than pull the engine for a clutch job! In fact the VW "dummy book" taught me this about 35 years ago. It has worked for me for my other vehicles and in fact was far cheaper doing break jobs long term than a clutch job! Heck only every 2nd break pad replacement did I even get the rotors turned as long as they looked good which most the time they DID!

So onto the Spyder.... And I have a SM5 so I can choose when to downshift. But this might also apply to the SE5 on manual downshifting?

The question:

Is it cheaper and easier to do a break job on a Spyder? Or is it cheaper and easier to do a clutch job?
I am asking this for both DIY and dealer cost.

Maybe Nancystoys can chime in on this if he would.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[captblack]

I can't speak about the cost because I am still on my original brakes and clutch at 30K miles. I always downshift, just like my grandfather taught me 50 years ago. I don't think that there is all that much wear on the clutch as long as you fully engage it instead of letting it drag. Although not quite the same, I have ridden and SE 5 and downshifted that as well. I don't know what kind of wear happens on that setup, though.

I am quite happy with the SM 5 and the control it gives me. I have not regretted it at all. :thumbup:

 

[spyryder]

It's BRAKES not BREAKS!!!!!! :gaah:

 

[NancysToy]

It may be somewhat cheaper to do a brake job...but you will do many of them, so the total cost of ownership may be higher. Rear brakes don't last long on the 2010-2012 RT's...usually only 10,000-15,000 miles for most owners. Cut that in half and you are talking quite a few brake jobs in say 100,000 miles that the clutch may last even with downshifting and engine braking. The biggest wear in a clutch is in starting, anyway, shifting merely engages and disengages it. Replacing it on the Spyder does not require removing the engine, just a side cover...and is much easier than repairing the transmission if you damage it by bang shifting. JMHO

 

[finless]

Cut that in half and you are talking quite a few brake jobs in say 100,000 miles that the clutch may last even with downshifting and engine braking.

I doubt cutting it in half is realistic. I doubt most use downshifting 100% coming to a stop light as the way to slow down. Breaks are involved always.

Tell you what... I am going to practice what I always have always done and let you know about my break wear.
SORRY I MEAN BRAKE :thumbup:
I plan on probably putting on lots of miles using my RT to commute to work on the 405 freeway.

I bet it is about the same wear everyone else is seeing but with less clutch wear. But we shall see... The same things your talking about in shifting a car from 2nd> should be the same here.... The biggest wear that is not needed is downshifting... That is what made my clutches and my fly-out bearing last so long!

Oh and I DO NOT slam gears! At least I try not to especially with the woman on the back!
In fact I have on order a GoPro camera to show how freakin easy it is to shift a SM5 without using the clutch!


Bob

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

Don't you have to be in a lower gear as you slow down anyway? Why not use the downshifts to slow down as well as the brakes?


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[NancysToy]

Do whatever works best for you...just don't expect a big return monetarily. I downshift for the simple reason that it gives you better control in the curves and mountains, and allows you to accelerate out of the turns faster. That's the old road racer in me, I guess. The Spyder is very forgiving about the use of brakes in a turn, but using them hard in a turn goes against all my training on both two and four wheels. I'm sure the throttle use that results from being able to goose it coming out of the turn hurts my wallet in the gas department, too, but those G's just make me smile. It's like using premium gas...it is worth the minimal cost to me. To each his/her own. Clutches last a long time on the SM. If mine fails, I'll cough up the $500, but I don't expect that to happen for a long, long time. I have replaced very few clutches over the years on bikes or cars, and then mostly on drag racing vehicles. Ride it the way you like to do it. If your mind is satisfied, the ride will be a good one.

 

[finless]

Do whatever works best for you...just don't expect a big return monetarily. I downshift for the simple reason that it gives you better control in the curves and mountains, and allows you to accelerate out of the turns faster. That's the old road racer in me, I guess. The Spyder is very forgiving about the use of brakes in a turn, but using them hard in a turn goes against all my training on both two and four wheels. I'm sure the throttle use that results from being able to goose it coming out of the turn hurts my wallet in the gas department, too, but those G's just make me smile. It's like using premium gas...it is worth the minimal cost to me. To each his/her own. Clutches last a long time on the SM. If mine fails, I'll cough up the $500, but I don't expect that to happen for a long, long time. I have replaced very few clutches over the years on bikes or cars, and then mostly on drag racing vehicles. Ride it the way you like to do it. If your mind is satisfied, the ride will be a good one.

I got yea! And maybe my point was missed. I only downshift when the need is there! So yes I completely understand what your saying and do this on curves and turns even on streets. I get that part.

My point is don't downshift just to slow down to save the brakes coming to a stop! It's one more time you can upshift on the life of the clutch!

Again since I have a SM5, I can just pull the clutch lever and coast using the brakes.

I know this sounds trivial but why did my car clutches outlast my engines using this technique?
I believe there is value here with this approach even on the Spyder... But hey.... I am new to this pretty trike!
Thus the reason for servicing cost questions on a clutch vs breaks....

Bob

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

I got yea! And maybe my point was missed. I only downshift when the need is there! So yes I completely understand what your saying and do this on curves and turns even on streets. I get that part.

My point is don't downshift just to slow down to save the brakes coming to a stop! It's one more time you can upshift on the life of the clutch!

Again since I have a SM5, I can just pull the clutch lever and coast using the brakes.

I know this sounds trivial but why did my car clutches outlast my engines using this technique?
I believe there is value here with this approach even on the Spyder... But hey.... I am new to this pretty trike!
Thus the reason for servicing cost questions on a clutch vs breaks....

Bob

I used my clutch to slow down all of my standard transmission cars and they still outlasted the engines too. That just may be an unprovable theory! :chat:

 

[Chupaca]

Here's what I do..!!

I have always used engine compression to slow down. I downshift all the way to 1st then apply the brakes. If there is one thing I want working at the bottom of a hill it is the brakes.. I have never changed a clutch on any of my vehicles but have had to do brake jobs on many even with this riding style. Clutch changes on these engines are fairly simple. If you do it yourself, some discs and a gasket/o-ring if really wasted some plates. The brakes on the other hand are no longer that simple. You have sensor to watch clips to track and if you err a bit you will be needing buds..now thats jmo...:thumbup:

 

[Illinois Boy]

I always downshift and rarely use the brakes in my vehicles whenever possible.

I have never had a worn out clutch in anything; and my brakes last forever. I have a VW Jetta with 88k miles and have not replaced any of the brakes. In fact, the mechanic said the brakes look good.

Not so sure the point of the OP has anything to do with saving a clutch. Just saying... no offense intended.

 

[NancysToy]

I have to agree that all clutches usually last as long as the engines. I can't say they last longer, since if I have changed or rebuilt an engine I always installed a new clutch, too. The method of slowing is likely not related to the clutch life at all. Downshifting doesn't wear a clutch any more than upshifting...it is merely an on/off action. It is the slipping while starting out from a dead stop that does the wear. Wet clutches wear very little unless raced or slipped excessively. That is why they can get by with very thin friction material compared to a dry clutch like that in a car or truck.

 

[Bob Denman]

Using the engine compression through downshifting is putting all of that burden on the driving wheel(s) only...
Using the brakes spreads the braking power out the way that the engineers had it figured out...
JMHO...

 

[boborgera]

Just a side note, If you have to make an quick stop, Clutch and brake at the same time, Without a torque converter the engine is always powering/pushing the rear wheel, Even with engine braking...

 

[finless]

Is the SM5 a wet clutch?

Bob

 

[boborgera]

Is the SM5 a wet clutch?

Bob

YES,It is, And the semi auto is also a wet clutch....