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US imposes 300% import tariff on Bombardier

No worry IMO on the :spyder2:. They already tried that game with motorcycles in order to help HD. All it gave us were more expensive motorcycles--and HD is one of the leaders. :thumbup:

I don't think so. It definitely protected HD so they could raise their prices but its effect upon the Japanese big CC engines was minimal.

What it did do was encourage the Japanese "big 3" to reduce the size of their engines and come out with better performing, yet cheaper, street machines. Since HD buyers generally don't buy on price and wouldn't be caught dead riding Japanese machines it had very little impact on the market overall.
 
I don't think so. It definitely protected HD so they could raise their prices but its effect upon the Japanese big CC engines was minimal.

What it did do was encourage the Japanese "big 3" to reduce the size of their engines and come out with better performing, yet cheaper, street machines. Since HD buyers generally don't buy on price and wouldn't be caught dead riding Japanese machines it had very little impact on the market overall.

I am going to respectfully disagree on a couple points. Those wonderful inline fours pretty much disappeared. Every Japanese major ended up with V twins and HD clones in the process. I am one of the few that liked the UJM. My last inline 4 was the last year Kawi Voyager. 2002, 2003???? I currently have a v-twin 2015 900 LTD.

Pretty much all Japanese from the 60's up were flawless. I never had a major mechanical problem over all four brands and every cc level. What stuck out for me was the disappearance of the in line fours--the copy cat v twin on pretty much everything, and the new and improved pricing. HD was the clear winner. Everyone had to match HD pricing in the long run.

The current market is changing a bit. I do believe HD is going to price themselves out of the market. Their new CVO line is starting at $40K.
 
I am going to respectfully disagree on a couple points. Those wonderful inline fours pretty much disappeared. Every Japanese major ended up with V twins and HD clones in the process. I am one of the few that liked the UJM. My last inline 4 was the last year Kawi Voyager. 2002, 2003???? I currently have a v-twin 2015 900 LTD.

Pretty much all Japanese from the 60's up were flawless. I never had a major mechanical problem over all four brands and every cc level. What stuck out for me was the disappearance of the in line fours--the copy cat v twin on pretty much everything, and the new and improved pricing. HD was the clear winner. Everyone had to match HD pricing in the long run.

The current market is changing a bit. I do believe HD is going to price themselves out of the market. Their new CVO line is starting at $40K.

I too was a big fan of the inline fours. My '71 Honda 750 Four (slightly modified) could beat the pants off any HD made in those days.

But the UJM were just following a trend by trying to copy HD's Potato Twins. It didn't succeed. Both Yamaha and Kawasaki did however sell a bunch of their 80ish vertical twins ala Triumph, BSA etc. So sometimes copying but producing a better product does work. I owned a '81 Yammy 650 Twin which, when I saw it last, had well over 100,000 miles on it and the then owner was about to take it cross country for the 4th or 5th time. I think Kawasaki still sells their version of the Triumph Bonneville 650 twin.
 
That's incorrect. They are separate companies. Both publicly traded. Bombardier inc. has no equity in BRP. If Bombardier had any equity ownership in any other company. That would have been sold long ago trying to stay out of bankruptcy.

Not according to Wikipedia. Bombardier Inc. is still the parent company for Aerospace, Transportation, Locomotive, Can Am and of course Snowmobiles

which Joseph-Armond Bombardier started this mega conglomerate with.

Jack
 
Not according to Wikipedia. Bombardier Inc. is still the parent company for Aerospace, Transportation, Locomotive, Can Am and of course Snowmobiles

which Joseph-Armond Bombardier started this mega conglomerate with.

Jack
From the BRP document BRP Annual Information form, March 31, 2017.
In 2003, while operating as a division of Bombardier Inc., the Company was sold by Bombardier
Inc. to an investor group including Bain Capital Luxembourg Investments S.à r.l. (“Bain Capital”),
members of the Bombardier and Beaudoin families and Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec
(“CDPQ”).

From the Bombardier Annual Report for 2016.
We are the world’s leading manufacturer of both planes and trains, operating under four reportable segments:
Business Aircraft, Commercial Aircraft, Aerostructures and Engineering Services and Transportation. We are
providing more efficient, sustainable and enjoyable transportati on solutions. Our products, services, and most
of all, our 66,000 dedicated and highly skilled employees are w hat makes us a global leader in mobility and
innovation. As at the date of this report, we have 73 production and engineering sites in 29 countries and a
worldwide network of service centres.

The Bombardier and Beaudoin families own shares in both companies, but the companies are two entirely separate entities.
 
I agree plus a large portion of HD motorcycles are Not build in the USA & some of the parts like the Struts/shocks are built by Honda's subsidy "Showa" in Sunbury, OH.. Electronics from Japan.
The engines and frames are still built in the US. What other large portion are you talking about?:dontknow:
 
I agree plus a large portion of HD motorcycles are Not build in the USA & some of the parts like the Struts/shocks are built by Honda's subsidy "Showa" in Sunbury, OH.. Electronics from Japan.

The engines and frames are still built in the US. What other large portion are you talking about?:dontknow:
There was a time several years ago that there was more American content in a Honda Goldwing than in HD. But it's almost hopeless to figure what parts came from where. I've read where many auto parts have crossed the Mexico and Canada borders multiple times by the time they are in a completed component, let alone the final product. I imagine many motorcycle parts are included in that back and forth game. For example, an electrical harness may have wire from Taiwan, terminal bits from China, plastic housings from US, all assembled in Japan. Who made the part? No good answer.

For all we know the shocks Wildrice refers to may have rubber seals from Japan, pistons made in Mexico from steel from China, and so on, all put together in Ohio. Made in XXX is almost meaningless today. Don't be surprised if those HD engines made in the US have timing gears from Taiwan, or wherever, in them. I would not be at all surprised if the block castings come from China, with final machining here. That's why the President's desire to see NAFTA killed might end up constipating US manufacturing rather than helping it.
 
There was a time several years ago that there was more American content in a Honda Goldwing than in HD. But it's almost hopeless to figure what parts came from where. I've read where many auto parts have crossed the Mexico and Canada borders multiple times by the time they are in a completed component, let alone the final product. I imagine many motorcycle parts are included in that back and forth game. For example, an electrical harness may have wire from Taiwan, terminal bits from China, plastic housings from US, all assembled in Japan. Who made the part? No good answer.

For all we know the shocks Wildrice refers to may have rubber seals from Japan, pistons made in Mexico from steel from China, and so on, all put together in Ohio. Made in XXX is almost meaningless today. Don't be surprised if those HD engines made in the US have timing gears from Taiwan, or wherever, in them. I would not be at all surprised if the block castings come from China, with final machining here. That's why the President's desire to see NAFTA killed might end up constipating US manufacturing rather than helping it.

Well said. Thanks.
 
I don't think so. It definitely protected HD so they could raise their prices but its effect upon the Japanese big CC engines was minimal.

What it did do was encourage the Japanese "big 3" to reduce the size of their engines and come out with better performing, yet cheaper, street machines. Since HD buyers generally don't buy on price and wouldn't be caught dead riding Japanese machines it had very little impact on the market overall.

I recall things a bit differently. The US imposed a large tariff on imported bikes 750cc and larger. In response, the Japanese started making machines around 600-650cc to squeeze in under the threshhold. But they also started wringing more performance out of those smaller engines to make up the performance gap: higher compression rations, four valves per cylinder, better metallurgy, five- and six-speed transmissions, lighter weight frames, etc.

When the tariff was lifted, the Japanese began building larger bikes again while also bringing along the better engine technology.

And thus was born the superbike era.
 
When the tariff was lifted, the Japanese began building larger bikes again while also bringing along the better engine technology.

And thus was born the superbike era.
To HD's credit they asked for the tariff to be ended early. They had shaped up their quality and felt plenty confident of their ability to compete with the Japanese head on without the support of the tariffs.

When I worked for the Army the people on the assembly line at McAlester Army Ammunition Plant in OK said they could tell immediately when bomb bodies made by HD came down the line. They were built better than other producers' bomb bodies were.
 
When Did Things Change?

The tariff is cheaper than using American labor. If we forced all manufacturers to make their goods in the US, only the top 1% could afford to buy anything. There's no simple answer to the world trade issues.

When did things change? Because when I grew up, almost everything was made in America and somehow we could still afford to buy stuff. It was that way for sure through the 1970s. In fact, it wasn't that many years ago that Wal-Mart was advertising all the products they carried that were made in America.
 
The tariff is cheaper than using American labor. If we forced all manufacturers to make their goods in the US, only the top 1% could afford to buy anything. There's no simple answer to the world trade issues.
You're correct, no simple answers. I think it was about 20 years ago, but guess who the highest paid auto workers were. If you said US you would be wrong. It was Japan. Don't know how they compare today. Automation was the big difference in cost of producing cars, plus, and this may surprise many, medical insurance benefits. Don't know what the number is today but 10 or 15 years ago about $1000 of the cost of every car produced in the US was to pay medical costs for employees. For Japanese cars the cost is zero. That is one impact a national health program can have.
 
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