transmission goes clunk...

[Bluehole]

with each push of the paddle-----sometimes. 2014 RT-L SE6

Changed oil and filter this past Sunday. Started the bike up after pouring 5 qts in and let the oil light go out---let it run for a few minutes,
pulled the dip stick/wiped and inserted the stick and pulled it out again. Showed oil to be half way between full and needing to add. Buttoned
up everything and went for short ride to warm things up--came back and checked again---showed same as above. Went for about a 35 mile
run and when I got back let the engine idle for 2 runs of the radiator fans plus a little. Checked oil and added enough to bring it to the full mark.

Went for another ride---this time longer yet and as I was coming back home I decided to go thru town and got stopped at just about all the stop
lights. As I pulled away from each and pushed the paddle to up shift it was accompanied by a clunk in every gear. Now this has been going on
for the last 5000 miles but I figured it might quit when I changed oil---it has not. The transmission does not care how fast or slow you are going
nor does it care what the RPM of the engine is---if it wants to clunk it will. It does not do this ALL the time only when it wants to surprise you. It
most often happens in the first 4 gears and is then silent for the 4-5 & 5-6 shifts. Sometimes it will let out a big ole clunk on the 1-2 shift and then
the rest will be smooth & quite. I forgot to mention that from a cold start in the morning, the machine produces crisp, clean, smooth upshifts until
the engine oil has reached operating temp. By that time I am usually on the highway out of town so I don't notice the harsh shifting until I reach stop & go
traffic somewhere.

All downshifting, whether manually or by computer has been smooth and mostly quite to this point. I have read on SL of a couple of guys complaining
of the same thing but but nothing about the cure.

I am using Amsoil 10W-40 & put in a new BRP filter with all new "O" rings. The bike just turned 20,000 miles. There is no jerking that I can feel, just the
clunk noise--the same noise that you hear when putting the bike into 1st/reverse gear after a cold start except it is doing it in the first 4 gears whenever it
feels like it. I did not change the HCM filter as it is not required until 28,000 miles. There is no oil foam on the dip stick when I pull it. When running down
the road the machine sounds just as normal as it always has.

Any comments on this one???

Thanks,

 

[Highwayman2013]

This may seem obvious but are you letting off the throttle? I mean you shouldn't.

 

[Bluehole]

Letting off throttle

This may seem obvious but are you letting off the throttle? I mean you shouldn't.

I am not aware of it if I do and I do not believe I am doing that.

Thanks,

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Mine seems to be okay with whatever I ask it to do; no clunking; except for the first shift into first or reverse...
You might want to have your dealer take a spin on it, and see what they think about this.
Good Luck! :thumbup:

 

[ARtraveler]

One other question--Upshift points. Are you shifting at between 2500 and 3500 rpms on the upshift? I usually do 3000 - 3500 depending.....

As you mentioned, the tranny takes care of the downshifts pretty good on the 1330's.

If that don't work, a trip to the dealer. Usually the only loud shift clunk is that first one at start up.

 

[Bluehole]

Upshift points

One other question--Upshift points. Are you shifting at between 2500 and 3500 rpms on the upshift? I usually do 3000 - 3500 depending.....

As you mentioned, the tranny takes care of the downshifts pretty good on the 1330's.

If that don't work, a trip to the dealer. Usually the only loud shift clunk is that first one at start up.

I have tried everything from owner's manual recommended shift points to above 3000 rpm's. It is just so random I can not find a sweet spot at all.

Thanks,

 

[Xyzzy]

There service manual has an entry for the SE6 for "erratic or harsh shifting". The possible diagnosis is "Problem with learnt clutch engagement point coefficient." It suggests:

• Perform HCM INITIALIZATION in BUDS
• RESET CLUTCH ENGAGEMENT POINT in BUDS
• LEARN ENGAGEMENT POINT in BUDS

I don't know if this is your issue but it is worth having your dealer look at it. Plus, they can look to see if it has thrown any codes.

The chapters for the SE6 and HCM are really interesting and complex!

 

[Xyzzy]

I forgot to mention that from a cold start in the morning, the machine produces crisp, clean, smooth upshifts until the engine oil has reached operating temp.

I forgot to mention that (to me) this is the critical diagnostic clue. Your SE6 can shift properly under a set of reproducible conditions. It shifts harshly under another set of reproducible conditions. There is no way to change the conditions. So, we just need to figure out why the machine is reacting the way it does. The fact that it shifts well part of the time is a real good thing IMO. PS - I am just a junior mechanic and I am wrong more than I am right!

:thumbup:

 

[JayBros]

Mine, with 11,000+ miles shifts smooth as a baby's butt except for that initial clunk when cold. Get it to the dealer.

 

[Highwayman2013]

Yep, could be as easy as a setting in the computer. Looks like dealer time.

 

[Peter Aawen]

My RT is a 2013 Ltd with the 5 speed SE g/box, so this may not be applicable, buuut:

Recently I took my RT to a Dealer for the Heat Alleviation Recall & got them to do the 15,000 km service while it was there. When the tech 'test rode' it before starting on the work, it took a moment or 2 for that first shift into First/Reverse & made the 'clunk' we all seem to expect, then off he went. No more than 2-3mins of riding before he came back & asked 'is your gearbox always a little slow & lazy?' I hadn't really thought it was, but he demonstrated on another RT that was in there for much the same work & it did seem to take about 1/2 a sec less to change gears?! After he'd done all the work, he test rode mine again & on his return commented that it felt a lot better, & sure enough, once I tried it it did seem to change just as quick as the other RT that was still waiting for its service etc. And it's been just that 'quick' ever since.

The Tech's thoughts on why it might've been a bit lazy before & not after the service - he changed the oil & used BRP oil rather than the 'same spec' oil of a different brand that the last 'dealer' to service it had used. Mind you, the previous dealer is in my home state & I rode 800+ km to this dealer cos I trust them & I no longer trust the local mob!! So whatever oil was in there from the last mob may or may not have been of the 'same spec' as the BRP Oil, but running the BRP oil does seem to have made a difference - & the bike doesn't seem to be using any oil atm either, altho I've travelled another 3,000 km since. That would've previously used maybe 500ml of oil, & made for slow/difficult gear selection & changes until it was topped up. Next oil change I'll be making sure that we are using an oil that I know IS the same spec as the BRP stuff!

Food for thought.

 

[cptjam]

Fine until oil change?

If so, change the oil again! Possible faulty filter, installed wrong, bad bits. Clunks are frequently oil or fluid related. IDK, but worth a try. Joe

 

[ulflyer]

I often get the clunk as well, especially after the engine and oil is thoroughly hot. When first starting out with "cold" oil, the shifts are smooth.

Had not heard of the BUDS adjustment. Will have mine checked next time I take it in.

BTW, a buddy with same bike as mine, has exactly the same clunk/no clunk situation. I think basically its symptomatic of this machine. Does seems curious tho that some report no clunk at all other than first and reverse!:dontknow:

 

[Bluehole]

Need BUDS

There service manual has an entry for the SE6 for "erratic or harsh shifting". The possible diagnosis is "Problem with learnt clutch engagement point coefficient." It suggests:

• Perform HCM INITIALIZATION in BUDS
• RESET CLUTCH ENGAGEMENT POINT in BUDS
• LEARN ENGAGEMENT POINT in BUDS

I don't know if this is your issue but it is worth having your dealer look at it. Plus, they can look to see if it has thrown any codes.

The chapters for the SE6 and HCM are really interesting and complex!

I think you might be on to something here. Figured I would be taking it to a dealer,

Thanks. I looked over my shop manual and found the sections you are talking about---will see what my dealer has to say.

 

[Bob Denman]

Please let us know if it does the trick; Good Luck! :2thumbs:

 

[Bluehole]

Called dealer.........

Talked with 2 local dealer service writers. One knew about the HCM re-initializing process. His words were "you are the first person to speak those words to me". According to him, the process takes about 1/2 hour where they re-introduce the latest software for your Spyder to the on board computer. They then check the solenoids for proper operation/settings along with various sensors. I also mentioned the "E" where the gear number should be and the lag in shifting that I have felt a few times over the course of this year. So, this whole thing sounds like a major computer reboot! All because I changed the oil??????

The cost--around $60 but we both believe BRP will foot this one. I also ask if they (BRP) knew what caused this condition and if it would occur again at oil change time. He could not answer either of those questions.

I have a appointment for this coming Tuesday at 10:30 am.

I also told him about this being mentioned on this forum. He said we all need to at least mention it to our respective dealer so they can get it "on the books". This way it will pop up on a network search by the service writers/technicians.

 

[BajaRon]

Talked with 2 local dealer service writers. One knew about the HCM re-initializing process. His words were "you are the first person to speak those words to me". According to him, the process takes about 1/2 hour where they re-introduce the latest software for your Spyder to the on board computer. They then check the solenoids for proper operation/settings along with various sensors. I also mentioned the "E" where the gear number should be and the lag in shifting that I have felt a few times over the course of this year. So, this whole thing sounds like a major computer reboot! All because I changed the oil??????

The cost--around $60 but we both believe BRP will foot this one. I also ask if they (BRP) knew what caused this condition and if it would occur again at oil change time. He could not answer either of those questions.

I have a appointment for this coming Tuesday at 10:30 am.

I also told him about this being mentioned on this forum. He said we all need to at least mention it to our respective dealer so they can get it "on the books". This way it will pop up on a network search by the service writers/technicians.

I would be surprised if it had anything to do with the oil change. Why would that affect the ECU? My only concern would be if the shifting circuit ran dry (went without oil) for a period of time. But there are a lot of people out there changing their own oil and this is the 1st I've heard of the problem. You'd think if were oil change related there would be more cases of it.

 

[missouriboy]

I often get the clunk as well, especially after the engine and oil is thoroughly hot. When first starting out with "cold" oil, the shifts are smooth.

Had not heard of the BUDS adjustment. Will have mine checked next time I take it in.

BTW, a buddy with same bike as mine, has exactly the same clunk/no clunk situation. I think basically its symptomatic of this machine. Does seems curious tho that some report no clunk at all other than first and reverse!:dontknow:

Your first paragraph describes mine exactly, plus I often get another symptom: I also get a harsh "reverse buck" caused by engine speed being way too slow upon clutch re-engagement after the shift. Then forward acceleration resumes normally, right after the "buck." All this happens without me changing the throttle. Now, I think I can alleviate it somewhat by rolling-on more throttle during the shift, but I never know when it's going to happen!

It only happens occasionally, as others have said, but mine does it enough for me to claim "unacceptable!" :banghead: The old SE5 was a pleasure compared to this.

As for just the "clunk," that happens nearly always, all shifts UP and all shifts DOWN, so much so that I've nicknamed her, "Rosie Castanets" :doorag: But none of this happens while cold, only after warm-up. It's just as though that LEARN process was done with a cold transmission, but needs to be done only when hot.

I'm about 500-600 miles past my first oil-change, which has had no effect whatsoever. I guess I'll report this to my dealer and see if the warranty will cover dealing with it.

 

[Bluehole]

Dealer visit

Just got back from the dealer. In and out in under a hour. They pulled information from the ECM and found a hard code.
P2806---gear position sensor problem. Some how I missed when that was set!! Service writer explained most of the checks
but failed to mention it would be done with the BUDS software hooked up again. Said the report would be sent out to BRP
today and they might have something back tomorrow if not the next day. From all my readings on SL, I am thinking a gear
position sensor replacement.

They also did a re-learn of several different sensors, all of which were accepted according to the BUDS report that they showed
me. They test drove the machine after all work was performed and said it did not pass muster with them but I could drive it
home and bring it back when required. Upon arriving home, I have to agree with their assessment. It continues to clunk
whenever it wants to.

So, I/we are waiting on BRP to make a decision as to what it is they want done next.

I am going to check out the counter shaft sprocket for bolt tightness in the morning. I checked the belt tension yesterday
evening and found it to be at 200# according to my Krikit II. So, will also set belt tension tomorrow to 235#.

Will keep all posted as this process moves forward.

 

[ARtraveler]

Just got back from the dealer. In and out in under a hour. They pulled information from the ECM and found a hard code.
P2806---gear position sensor problem. Some how I missed when that was set!! Service writer explained most of the checks
but failed to mention it would be done with the BUDS software hooked up again. Said the report would be sent out to BRP
today and they might have something back tomorrow if not the next day. From all my readings on SL, I am thinking a gear
position sensor replacement.

They also did a re-learn of several different sensors, all of which were accepted according to the BUDS report that they showed
me. They test drove the machine after all work was performed and said it did not pass muster with them but I could drive it
home and bring it back when required. Upon arriving home, I have to agree with their assessment. It continues to clunk
whenever it wants to.

So, I/we are waiting on BRP to make a decision as to what it is they want done next.

I am going to check out the counter shaft sprocket for bolt tightness in the morning. I checked the belt tension yesterday
evening and found it to be at 200# according to my Krikit II. So, will also set belt tension tomorrow to 235#.

Will keep all posted as this process moves forward.

Thank you for the update. It sounds like you have a good dealer to work with. :thumbup: