I apologize if this has been answered before, but I have kind of a simple question. I have a 2016 Can-Am spider RTSE6, which you manually shift going up in the gears but will automatically downshift if you come up to a stop. My question is I enjoy shifting down at a little higher RPM than it does automatically. Is it harder on the bike to shift all the time or should I let the downshifting do its own thing? Thanks so much, Peter.
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To shift or not to shift that is my question.
- Thread starter Plarimer
- Start date
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
99% of the time I will let the Spyder do the downshifting .... the folks who designed the transmission and set the parameters for the RPM's and picked when this will happen ... they picked them for a Reason ( I think system / parts longevity !!! ) .... If I'm really cranking it in the twistie's I will do it Manually, but this doesn't happen often .... There are folks who Claim it does NO HARM .... are those folks Metallurgists ??? and how many transmissions have they designed ?? .. I remember way back when a Master mechanic told me " clutches are cheap - transmissions arn't ) ... during my 67 years of using transmissions I have never had a failure. I knew many who did ... mostly folks who used it for Braking ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:
Snoking1127
Well-known member
I find that in the twisties going to Canyon Lake the engine will lug if I do not manually down shift in some of the corners.
Despite some erroneously thinking &/or believing otherwise, it is NOT any harder on the SE Spyder's to change down manually at the proper times - in fact, the 'automatic down-change' WASN'T initially intended as anything but a 'cover your arse' failsafe for the (effectively) manual gearboxes that the SE's are, albeit that these particular manual gearboxes happen to have a semi-automated & computer activated (once prompted by the flappy paddles) up-shift!! The 'auto down-shift' feature is really only there as an 'over-ride of last resort to protect your gearbox & engine' from potential damage when you've 'forgotten' or been waaay too late to initiate the manual down-shift via the flappy paddles sooner than their 'any lower & you're likely to damage stuff' fail-safe revs level calls for!! :shocked:
The Computer/s will trigger a fail-safe 'change down' for you if your road speed &/or revs are so low that putting the amount of torque you just demanded via the throttle is likely to damage the gearbox; and they'll change down for you if you are likely to be 'lugging' the engine if you force drop the engine revs low enough to deliver the low road speed that holding a higher gear calls for at those revs.....So if anything, you are MORE LIKELY to damage things by always relying on the 'fail-safe' to jump in at the last moment to protect the mechanical bits from your omissions than you are if you drive your SE like the 'semi-automated changing manual gearbox' that it is and always try to select/prompt your gear changes as and when you should with any other manual gearbox, regardless of whether you're changing UP or changing DOWN!! But that doesn't mean you can ignore the need to match your road speed to the gear you select, either! In fact, if you try it, you'll probably be able to find that there are also 'fail-safe limits' that stop you changing UP too early as well as changing DOWN too early! The people who designed these 'semi-automated manual gearboxes' were actually pretty smart, so they set things up to work each way AND to protect the mechanical bits if you leave your down-changes too late!! :lecturef_smilie:
Besides, like all skilled and capable riders, we don't ever want to let any of those bad things happen to our vehicles do we?! We should always be in full control of our Spyders at all times, and that means being in the correct gear & at the correct engine revs for the given road speed and to allow instant access to any necessary emergency manoeuvring that may be required in order to keep us & other road users safe; and doing THAT usually calls for manually down shifting as & when necessary (ie, BEFORE the fail-safe decides it has to kick in!) even if you don't want to 'engine brake' hard to a stop! :thumbup:
Then again, it's your Spyder, you can do with it as you will....
The Computer/s will trigger a fail-safe 'change down' for you if your road speed &/or revs are so low that putting the amount of torque you just demanded via the throttle is likely to damage the gearbox; and they'll change down for you if you are likely to be 'lugging' the engine if you force drop the engine revs low enough to deliver the low road speed that holding a higher gear calls for at those revs.....So if anything, you are MORE LIKELY to damage things by always relying on the 'fail-safe' to jump in at the last moment to protect the mechanical bits from your omissions than you are if you drive your SE like the 'semi-automated changing manual gearbox' that it is and always try to select/prompt your gear changes as and when you should with any other manual gearbox, regardless of whether you're changing UP or changing DOWN!! But that doesn't mean you can ignore the need to match your road speed to the gear you select, either! In fact, if you try it, you'll probably be able to find that there are also 'fail-safe limits' that stop you changing UP too early as well as changing DOWN too early! The people who designed these 'semi-automated manual gearboxes' were actually pretty smart, so they set things up to work each way AND to protect the mechanical bits if you leave your down-changes too late!! :lecturef_smilie:
Besides, like all skilled and capable riders, we don't ever want to let any of those bad things happen to our vehicles do we?! We should always be in full control of our Spyders at all times, and that means being in the correct gear & at the correct engine revs for the given road speed and to allow instant access to any necessary emergency manoeuvring that may be required in order to keep us & other road users safe; and doing THAT usually calls for manually down shifting as & when necessary (ie, BEFORE the fail-safe decides it has to kick in!) even if you don't want to 'engine brake' hard to a stop! :thumbup:
Then again, it's your Spyder, you can do with it as you will....
Last edited:
Little Blue
SpyderLovers Ambassador
Shifts
My first thought was to say read the Spyder Owner's Manual.
I have been shifting my Spyder SE6 up and down as I sense the need. Usually the only time I let it downshift is for a full slow stop.
The computer on the Spyder knows how to do it.
So if you want to do some shifts, go ahead.
SE6 is only automatic for the downshifting, nothing yet for upshift.
My first thought was to say read the Spyder Owner's Manual. I have been shifting my Spyder SE6 up and down as I sense the need. Usually the only time I let it downshift is for a full slow stop.
The computer on the Spyder knows how to do it.
So if you want to do some shifts, go ahead.
SE6 is only automatic for the downshifting, nothing yet for upshift.
Snoking1127
Well-known member
Piratezz
Member
There is a certain vlogger, on this site, who drives the socks out of his shoes,( He invented the phrase "ride it, like you stole it) hahahaha, and I never heard him bout any mishaps, with the gears.
mho is, when I cruise, I let the machine do the downshifts, when I am really stepping on it, I tend to downshift myself.
mho is, when I cruise, I let the machine do the downshifts, when I am really stepping on it, I tend to downshift myself.
ARtraveler
R.I.P. Dwayne
I let the Spyders do MOST of the down shifting for me. I would say 98% of the time. I also am aware of keeping the engine in the sweet spot on the upshifts and cruising. Mine like 3500 rpms. I get consistent 40 mpg these days. :yes:
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
:agree: ..... Down shifting so you can accelerate out of a curve ( I do this in the Twistie's ) is very Different from Down-shift for BRAKEING ...... Mike :thumbup:
LongIsland
Member
My question: Why would BRP allow us to downshift if it was detrimental for the transmission or engine?? I have never read anything that states manual downshifting an SE would cause damage to transmission, engine, etc.
I copied this from the owners guide for the 2014 RT Ltd SE6, Page 14 (words in bold by me)
If operator does not downshift when
slowing down and engine RPM drops
below a threshold value, the gearbox
will automatically downshift to the
next available gear.
I have been downshifting since 2012, first with my 2012 (19,000 miles) now with my 2014 (48,000 miles) both RT Ltd and purchased new. 67,000 miles and I have not had any mechanical problems related to manual downshifting. Unless I am making a quick stop, I usually let the bike go from second to first automatically. BTW I have not had any engine nor transmission problems. Just 2 air bags and a speed sensor.
I copied this from the owners guide for the 2014 RT Ltd SE6, Page 14 (words in bold by me)
If operator does not downshift when
slowing down and engine RPM drops
below a threshold value, the gearbox
will automatically downshift to the
next available gear.
I have been downshifting since 2012, first with my 2012 (19,000 miles) now with my 2014 (48,000 miles) both RT Ltd and purchased new. 67,000 miles and I have not had any mechanical problems related to manual downshifting. Unless I am making a quick stop, I usually let the bike go from second to first automatically. BTW I have not had any engine nor transmission problems. Just 2 air bags and a speed sensor.
RideOn
Member
Slow, reluctant downshifts
My 2019 RTL also bogs in some automated downshifts. It seems to be okay to let the computer do the downshifting when coming to a full stop.
That said, I find the computer to be quite reluctant to downshift from 3rd to 2nd especially and also from 2nd to 1st when slowing for a corner or some other reason. Maybe it means I'm slowing down too much (I'm no racer) or maybe it's just my specific RTL, but I find myself manually downshifting in the lower gears for the exact same reason - so it doesn't bog down. My ST with the 998 was much better about downshifts.
Maybe it's just the old truck driver in me, but I really dislike letting an engine lug - it can be very bad in an 18-wheeler, hard on every component of the driveline, not just the engine. Granted a Spyder isn't a Kenworth, but I still dislike twisting open the throttle out of a corner and finding I'm (at least) one gear too high for my road speed.
Bob
My 2019 RTL also bogs in some automated downshifts. It seems to be okay to let the computer do the downshifting when coming to a full stop.
That said, I find the computer to be quite reluctant to downshift from 3rd to 2nd especially and also from 2nd to 1st when slowing for a corner or some other reason. Maybe it means I'm slowing down too much (I'm no racer) or maybe it's just my specific RTL, but I find myself manually downshifting in the lower gears for the exact same reason - so it doesn't bog down. My ST with the 998 was much better about downshifts.
Maybe it's just the old truck driver in me, but I really dislike letting an engine lug - it can be very bad in an 18-wheeler, hard on every component of the driveline, not just the engine. Granted a Spyder isn't a Kenworth, but I still dislike twisting open the throttle out of a corner and finding I'm (at least) one gear too high for my road speed.
Bob
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