Tire Wear Issue - Possible Alignment problem

[Raptor]

Well shoot. I was going to bring 14 in tomorrow morning to get checked, but I have to reschedule for next week because something came up at work. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to hi-jack the RS-S for a little bit; I'm going to back off of 14 until I get her checked out.

I did check the owner's manual and found this:

" It is normal to see uneven wear on tires depending on how the vehicle is driven. The front tire internal or external edges and the rear tire center tread will wear unevenly depending on if the vehicle is driven smoothly or aggresively."

HMMM... maybe it IS me after all! :roflblack: I would accept that if alignment ends up checking out good, but I don't think it's going to be that simple. They mention edges, not edge. We'll have to wait a week for the answer...

 

[SpyderWolf]

Well shoot. I was going to bring 14 in tomorrow morning to get checked, but I have to reschedule for next week because something came up at work. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to hi-jack the RS-S for a little bit; I'm going to back off of 14 until I get her checked out.

I did check the owner's manual and found this:

" It is normal to see uneven wear on tires depending on how the vehicle is driven. The front tire internal or external edges and the rear tire center tread will wear unevenly depending on if the vehicle is driven smoothly or aggresively."

HMMM... maybe it IS me after all! :roflblack: I would accept that if alignment ends up checking out good, but I don't think it's going to be that simple. They mention edges, not edge. We'll have to wait a week for the answer...

It may end up being you. I can tell you that after my runs on The Dragon during SitS, I had a lot less tread on the inner right tire than I had when I started. :yikes:

Let us know what you find out when you are able to get it checked. :thumbup:

 

[Raptor]

It may end up being you. I can tell you that after my runs on The Dragon during SitS, I had a lot less tread on the inner right tire than I had when I started. :yikes:

Let us know what you find out when you are able to get it checked. :thumbup:

Really? That is interesting indeed. I really would rather have it be just aggressive riding than have a problem up front. Outside of hard riding, I have not done anything to knock the front out. I have not jumped any curbs, speed bumps (or ditches!), have not run over anything (well, there was that Squirrel a while back, but I don't think that is it) or struck anything... nope, no comment on that one! :roflblack: The evidence is piling up against me, isn't it? :shocked: Oh well, I'll take that rap and be happy.

 

[SpyderWolf]

Really? That is interesting indeed. I really would rather have it be just aggressive riding than have a problem up front. Outside of hard riding, I have not done anything to knock the front out. I have not jumped any curbs, speed bumps (or ditches!), have not run over anything (well, there was that Squirrel a while back, but I don't think that is it) or struck anything... nope, no comment on that one! :roflblack: The evidence is piling up against me, isn't it? :shocked: Oh well, I'll take that rap and be happy.

Hopefully you will find it is the same situation I had, and no big deal. May need new tires to cure it. In my case, my right front had 13 weights on it from the factory and even when I switched rims it still took the same amount of weight to balance it. I think that tire was defective, as my new ones have been good with just the Ride-On in them.

 

[SpyderGirl]

I had a tie-rod come loose on me, I was able to tighten it down and it hasn't loosened up since. As for the front tires, I have over 32K on my original tires. They are wearing perfectly even. I have Ride-On in my tires which may be helping with the even wear. I'll be over 50K before I need new front tires.

 

[Raptor]

Wow, Katlyn, that is amazing. That's just good maintenance and good smooth riding. I can't believe I an punnishing these tires that badly. She goes in tomorrow morning, so we will see what gives. I'm gonna have them check all links, bushings, etc. just to be safe.

 

[Raptor]

Hopefully you will find it is the same situation I had, and no big deal. May need new tires to cure it. In my case, my right front had 13 weights on it from the factory and even when I switched rims it still took the same amount of weight to balance it. I think that tire was defective, as my new ones have been good with just the Ride-On in them.

Oh yeah, Michael, I am quite sure I will need new tires. Man I really want to go with a different tire! I just don't see how I'm gonna pull that off this time. But that's OK; I'll just burn these up too!! :roflblack: :roflblack:

 

[Raptor]

Well, Kids, today I brought Phantom 14 to my dealer and had my front end checked out. And the verdict is... IT'S ME!!

When I checked in the service manager came over and after salutations he took a good look at all the tires. He just looked at me with a devilish grin and said "Been having fun, huh?" Of course I replied that I had no idea what he meant, and after we both got up off of the floor we got serious.

He told me that he has been seeing wear like this and that mine wasn't even the worst he'd seen. And in every case but one the alignment has been OK. In Every case where the right was worn on the inside the rider was the more aggressive type. But then he continued on.

He indicated that the left front was pretty abused also. then he pointed out the rear. He asked me flat out "you're sliding this thing aren't you?" I replied "well, maybe... :shocked: "

Turns out that I have been so obsessed with the fronts I have not been paying enough attention to the rear; the whole center tread was gone past the wear bars! So it was pretty clear that I basically burnt up this set. I asked about putting different (non-OEM) tires on and he said they would do it but they definitely recommended going with the OEMs. Typical response but he qualified the statement by saying that most guys that go away from OEMs often go bigger/taller which changes the profile of the machine and actually makes it handle worse than if you stuck with the OEMs. They had the tires in stock, so I figured what the heck; one more set of OEMs won't be so bad. And they do Ride-on as well! 25 bucks a tire and they do it while you wait. As luck would have it they were out of it but when they get more in I just might do it.

So fresh rubber all the way around, front end alignment, complete suspension/drive trane inspection (all bearings, bushings, links, tie rod ends, etc) belt alignment and tension setting, front sprocket re-torque, the whole thing. And then they did something I didn't expect.

They hooked 14 up to the computer, checked for any codes and flashed my ECU. Hed told me what the identifier for this download was, but I did not write it down. One of the main things it does is fix your clock. But it did a heck of a lot more than that. When I got my machine back I went for a kind of shake-down loop around the southern part of the bay of about 78 miles. This machine has never run this good before. :yes: Not even when it was new. Roll and track are excellent now, not a single vibration. Throttle response is smooth and positive all the way through the band now, and no more of that snatch I was feeling before. It's amazing. These new tires look different than the original set as well. It's almost like they upgraded the stock tire. The sidewall is slightly different and they just have a slightly different look. They feel like they may be of a different compound than the original set. They feel pretty darn good, actually!

Anyway, all is well again, all critical components are in great shape, and my front end is at ZERO tow angle. Let's see if I can take better care of this set of rubber. :thumbup:

 

[Just Doo Me]

Sounds goodhyea: Last fall when I took mine in for the dps upgrade I mentioned about the tire wear on the inside LF tire and the tech said they had received a notice from BRP that this type of wear was normal from the crowning in the roads.He said he would check it out though, and did end up doing an alignment,no charge as he did the dps as well.I took them in to a shop who could rotate them ,all should be good for another season or two [26000km].Getting the itch as I havent had conditions to ride since Nov. and the winter is teasing me with not enough snow to sled but too much to Spyder.:spyder:

 

[Raptor]

Sounds goodhyea: Last fall when I took mine in for the dps upgrade I mentioned about the tire wear on the inside LF tire and the tech said they had received a notice from BRP that this type of wear was normal from the crowning in the roads.He said he would check it out though, and did end up doing an alignment,no charge as he did the dps as well.I took them in to a shop who could rotate them ,all should be good for another season or two [26000km].Getting the itch as I havent had conditions to ride since Nov. and the winter is teasing me with not enough snow to sled but too much to Spyder.:spyder:

Yes, I forgot to mention that he did say that the crowning of the roads, as well as on/off-ramps could do it as well. Thank you for pointing that out. I was just happy that nothing was mechanically faulty.

The weather is just messing with you now, man, and that just isn't right! Hopefully in a week or two you will be able to put yer sleds up and start riding your Spyder. :thumbup:

 

[SpyderWolf]

Glad to hear it was you, and nothing wrong with 14 herself. :thumbup:

My rear tire was wasted by 10K, so I went with the BFGoodrich gForce Sport in the stock rear tire size. I actually had to sign a waiver with the dealer stating they were not responsible if something bad happened to me because of that tire. :dontknow: I have been getting very good results out of it. The dealer already had the fronts in stock when I needed to replace them, so I just went with another stock set as well. So far they seem to be holding their own. Our roads are crowned big time here as well.

As for the Ride-On, use the link on the home page and the discount code and order it yourself. You will save a good chunk of change. If you want to do both Spyders it could save you about $50 versus the $25 per tire the dealer wants. :thumbup:

Keep track of your current mileage, and let's see how long this set lasts you.

 

[Raptor]

Glad to hear it was you, and nothing wrong with 14 herself. :thumbup:

My rear tire was wasted by 10K, so I went with the BFGoodrich gForce Sport in the stock rear tire size. I actually had to sign a waiver with the dealer stating they were not responsible if something bad happened to me because of that tire. :dontknow: I have been getting very good results out of it. The dealer already had the fronts in stock when I needed to replace them, so I just went with another stock set as well. So far they seem to be holding their own. Our roads are crowned big time here as well.

As for the Ride-On, use the link on the home page and the discount code and order it yourself. You will save a good chunk of change. If you want to do both Spyders it could save you about $50 versus the $25 per tire the dealer wants. :thumbup:

Keep track of your current mileage, and let's see how long this set lasts you.

Hey Mike! So 10K is all you got too, huh? I guess I don't feel so bad now! I wanted to go with a different tire but I would have had to come back and I just wanted it to be done so I went with the Stocks. I'm tellin ya though, this new set looks and feels different than the original set. I really do think that they are building these Kenda's differently.

The other thing was that I didn't use the best riding technique when I first started out, so I must take much of the blame. I'm much smoother now, so we'll see how the second set is going to hold up. If I had the tires I wanted to put on, they would have mounted them up with no waiver. I was somewhat impressed by that. I was also impressed by the fact that they offered the Ride-on. These guys are actually turning out to be pretty professional and I really like their work. It's nice to have a tech you can trust.

Oh, yes, let's mark it; 3/09/2011 Fresh tires @ 11,060 miles. The clock is running!

 

[SpyderWolf]

These guys are actually turning out to be pretty professional and I really like their work. It's nice to have a tech you can trust.

That says a bunch right there. You have been here long enough to read the stories of how other dealers do things, so should consider yourself very lucky. :congrats: on having a great dealer to work with, and best of luck with the new tires.

 

[garganos]

BRP did issue and Service Bulletin about uneven tire wear. This is a normal wear pattern. This is due to the geometry of the suspension & road conditions (natural arc in the road). To get longer life out of the tires you can rotate them off the rims. This will gain you longer tire life.

 

[r1100rider]

easy way to align

i live hours from the dealer i have do for myself you guy are making this frontend alignment to hard you can only adjust the toe in or out our spyder wasted both front tires in 6000 mile i see most are wearing the insides to do a simple alignment i just jacked up the front and put the a arms on blocks removed tires took and used a few washers under the lugnuts to hold the discs on then i notices the holes in the rotors so i just screwed 2 pcs of 8 ft 2x2 on to the rotors from the inside put the other end of the wook on a couple of same size boxs and measured inside to inside sure enough the measurement was 1/2 in wider 6 ft away from the trike [toed out] an 18mm wrench and loosen the the jam nuts on all 4 you can reach the inside ones som have said you have to remove the trunk but you dont it took a 1/2 turn per rod make sure you do this equal on both sides i rechecked the measurements and i wqs 1/8 less at the front which will give a very slight toe in to make sure it was true with the rear and handle bars i used another board and aligned it with the rear tire then snaped a chalk line on the floor lengthwise and used a square tilted up measured from the square to the boards that were bolted to the rotors to make sure everything was true

 

[kman]

I have read the shop manual for the alignment procedure and fin it strange to say the least.I am an inspector in a precision machine shop and know from experiance that proper set-up and fixturing is critical for accuracy.

To start with it calls for an 8 foot angle to be clamped to 2 spacers that are clamped to the frame.The handlebars are to be straight by measuring from them to a fixed point on the Spyder(this is critical).As far as the 8 foot angle I doubt you are going to find a stock piece of angle straight within 1/16 of an inch and the spec calls for the toe to be set to zero +/-.020 of an inch.Every small error in the materials used and set-up compounds the inaccuracy.In addition the measurements you are taking are with a tape measure and I have yet to find one that is graduated in thousndths of an inch.

All this being said you may be able to get it close enough but not +/-.020 of an inch which is the thickness of 4 sheets of printer paper.If I was going to check my alignment I think I would set the handlebars as straight
as possible checking to a fixed center point then mount a laser level to each rotor and check it to the center of the swingarm or even the rear rim
which would take out any error from using the angle and spacer blocks.

Keep in mind that everything is made to a tolerance.No two sets of handlebars,frames etc.etc. are exactly the same.

Just my 2 cents,thanks for letting me share!opcorn:

 

[r1100rider]

Tire wear

The point I was making was that you can check this pretty easy with out fighting with blocks and c clamps a a few washers on the studs then the lug nuts will hold the rotors on then you can bolt or screw through the holes on the rotors your straight material wood or metal right to the rotor the longer the better I used 8 ft in that much length it will show a trend of direction that won't take a laser or 1000th of an inch to tell ours was toe out more than 1/2 in over that far make that equal and it will be very close every spyder I have seen with any miles on it is wearing the insides of the front out a 1/2 turn on each rod brought this front end back in

 

[kman]

The point I was making was that you can check this pretty easy with out fighting with blocks and c clamps a a few washers on the studs then the lug nuts will hold the rotors on then you can bolt or screw through the holes on the rotors your straight material wood or metal right to the rotor the longer the better I used 8 ft in that much length it will show a trend of direction that won't take a laser or 1000th of an inch to tell ours was toe out more than 1/2 in over that far make that equal and it will be very close every spyder I have seen with any miles on it is wearing the insides of the front out a 1/2 turn on each rod brought this front end back in

I agree that it is better to keep it simple.The less variables you can keep out of it the better.

 

[DragonSpyder]

I don't buy the aggresive rider or crown in the road excuse. Aggresive riding may cause the outer edge to wear a bit but not the inner edge. If you change to a slight toe-in I can guarantee you will not have edge wear. Also, it corners easier and handles better.

The easiest thing for the dealer to say is it is normal or rider issue. I have 20K on my fronts and they are only half gone with even wear. There are few that ride as aggresive as I do and the roads around here are as bad as it gets.

 

[boborgera]

I don't buy the aggresive rider or crown in the road excuse. Aggresive riding may cause the outer edge to wear a bit but not the inner edge. If you change to a slight toe-in I can guarantee you will not have edge wear. Also, it corners easier and handles better.

The easiest thing for the dealer to say is it is normal or rider issue. I have 20K on my fronts and they are only half gone with even wear. There are few that ride as aggresive as I do and the roads around here are as bad as it gets.

:agree: On a two wheeler the crown will cause uneven wear, Because you mostly ride in the left tire track. But on the Spyder Na, something else is going on.