Throttle delay - can it be fixed by BUDS? Or Pedal Commander?

[PistonBlown]

F3-L 2017

I've noticed when overtaking that there is a slight delay when opening up the throttle and the power being delivered - about long enough for me to say "Come on, Come ON". The mate on a bike I was riding with said "Watching you pass is like watching one of those hand held missile launchers where the missile pauses slightly on exit while it fins pop out then takes off"

On my old RS being a cable throttle it was instant but the fly-by-wire throttle on the F3-L has the delay, I'm guessing to help you maintain a steady speed when cruising along. Pretty much all our roads are single lane here so have to do a fair bit of overtaking needed on any ride.

Now I know there is something called a 'Pedal Commander' that I could get to sort this, but that's not available locally and the shipping and taxes are going to more than double the cost.

So my question is does anyone know if this is something the dealers can alter via buds? or do any Aussie/NZ riders know of a locally produced alternative to the 'Pedal Commander' that's suitable for an F3?

 

[MrMagicFingers]

Hi...

That's not normal. At all.

Your 1-1.5 second delay (from what you inferred) should not exist, the throttle and wrist movement should be instantaneous. Your throttle body may need to be properly cleaned and checked. Any codes produced? Hidden ones?

I cant tell you why it's doing that but I don't think that "Pedal Commander" will help you there at all.

My question for you would be... When decelerating, does the RPM's follow the same delay before they start reducing?

That could be a deadly issue waiting to spring upon you.

Tim

 

[Sydermon]

The throttle on my 2015 F3S is just like yours and had from new a short delay. I fitted a pedal commander and it solves the problem and is absolutely awesome

 

[BCNewell]

Might see if it’s any different with the ECO system turned off ...

 

[Peteoz]

Hi...

That's not normal. At all.
Your 1-1.5 second delay (from what you inferred) should not exist, the throttle and wrist movement should be instantaneous. Your throttle body may need to be properly cleaned and checked. Any codes produced? Hidden ones?
I cant tell you why it's doing that but I don't think that "Pedal Commander" will help you there at all.

Tim

Tim, you might not see that on your 998, but I (and others) see that short lag on the 1330 when grabbing a handful of throttle, and it is exactly the reason I bought a Pedal Commander, which has eliminated the lag. It was also present on my ‘16 F3, and I had the ECM modified by a 3rd party in Oz to remove it (along with other benefits). The Pedal Commander option is much cheaper and you don’t have to send your ECM away.

Piston, yeah the shipping to NZ/OZ is a killer. I waited until I had a number of items to order from the US. It didn’t seem so bad then. I don’t believe the dealer will do anything to change factory tuning. I did see a post somewhere from someone who removed a plug to eliminate the lag (the plug was apparently added for emission reasons), but I didn’t take much notice as I had already solved the problem……I’ll see if my feeble mind can recall where I saw it.

Pete

 

[RayBJ]

Where does the Pedal Box ship from? Same result, maybe cheaper to ship?

 

[RICZ]

Where does the Pedal Box ship from? Same result, maybe cheaper to ship?

Slingmods (the only source for Spyders) is in the LA area and ships free. I sure do love mine. Turned my bike into an animal. And I can make it go from kitten to tiger with with a push of a buttom, while on the move.

 

[BertRemington]

High RPMs are your friend

PB - for single-lane (aka two-lane here in the USA) travel I'm in 4th gear. The 1330cc engine is a sweetie, loves the high RPM and there's no throttle lag. When I use cruise control on the freeway I do have the lagging response you observed.

 

[Ccol]

PM sent...

 

[PistonBlown]

Thanks for all the replies.

@MrMagicFingers - Doesn't seem to be an issue with the older Spyders like your RTS 2010 and my old RS 2011 but seems to be the case with F3's, probably doesn't bother most owners but the sort of riding I do its noticeable.

@RayBJ/RICZ/Sydermon - Reason shipping is so expensive at the moment is that UPS have said they are not shipping from the US to NZ so that's created a bit of a logistics problem. Everything is twice expensive and takes ages. Also because of the increased shipping costs it would take this over the tax threshold so I'd be charged a load of additional tax and customs administration fees. Got caught out with that recently when a bought a new mount for my Garmin. I'll go down that path if I have to though to sort it.


@BCNewell - I've never turned ECO on however...

Ccol put me on the right track mentioning its mainly an issue in second. I'd really noticed it on a twisty coastal road where I was changing down to second before pulling out. Ccol has also given me info on a change to try out that's related to a bit of emission tech - @Pete its the same one as you mentioned I'm going to give it a go at the weekend and let you know what happens.

@BertRemington - Yep the Spyders love their rev's, the RS was even more rev happy than the F3, 5,500 was the minimum you'd want to be on that and at idle you could hear the noise of race style cams. The F3 is a lot better and smoother at the cruise riding than the RS.

 

[Peteoz]

Ccol put me on the right track mentioning its mainly an issue in second. I'd really noticed it on a twisty coastal road where I was changing down to second before pulling out. Ccol has also given me info on a change to try out that's related to a bit of emission tech - @Pete its the same one as you mentioned I'm going to give it a go at the weekend and let you know what happens


Good to hear, Piston……please let me know how it works.
My most noticeable experience was mainly in 3rd (but also in 2nd), where I regularly did a slowish right angle turn onto a Freeway, and then twisted the throttle to get up to 110kph quickly as trucks approached, and it bogged down. (Some of it was my fault as it is a tricky intersection and I would sometimes leave it in 3rd without realising).

Pete

 

[MrMagicFingers]

Tim, you might not see that on your 998, but I (and others) see that short lag on the 1330 when grabbing a handful of throttle, and it is exactly the reason I bought a Pedal Commander, which has eliminated the lag. It was also present on my ‘16 F3, and I had the ECM modified by a 3rd party in Oz to remove it (along with other benefits). The Pedal Commander option is much cheaper and you don’t have to send your ECM away.

Piston, yeah the shipping to NZ/OZ is a killer. I waited until I had a number of items to order from the US. It didn’t seem so bad then. I don’t believe the dealer will do anything to change factory tuning. I did see a post somewhere from someone who removed a plug to eliminate the lag (the plug was apparently added for emission reasons), but I didn’t take much notice as I had already solved the problem……I’ll see if my feeble mind can recall where I saw it.

Pete

WOW!!!

I could not even imagine having a delay in throttle response time. for my style of driving and what I am use to it could cause serious confidence problems. I wouldn't feel comfortable in passing a car or large truck. That could lead to disastrous consequences if your hustling to pass someone and you start to second guess yourself.

How could a system like that ever leave the factory or a engineers drawing boards???? OMG.

I stand corrected! :shocked:pps:

Tim

 

[Jetfixer]

To answer your question, a quick hookup to BUDS will reset the throttle opening angle that the computer sees. This alone may cure your lag problem. However, getting rid of the lag will not produce the better overall performance results of either the ECU reflash or the Pedal Commander. I've done the ECU reflash my previous 2015 RTL and on my current 2020 RTL. The results are amazing. The ECU reflash takes into consideration many more factors such as timing, and cooling fan operation in addition to throttle. The Pedal Commander just adjusts the throttle signal. While riding with a friend that has the PC last summer his RTL overheated while we were pushing hard through the twisties.

 

[RICZ]

To answer your question, a quick hookup to BUDS will reset the throttle opening angle that the computer sees. This alone may cure your lag problem. However, getting rid of the lag will not produce the better overall performance results of either the ECU reflash or the Pedal Commander. I've done the ECU reflash my previous 2015 RTL and on my current 2020 RTL. The results are amazing. The ECU reflash takes into consideration many more factors such as timing, and cooling fan operation in addition to throttle. The Pedal Commander just adjusts the throttle signal. While riding with a friend that has the PC last summer his RTL overheated while we were pushing hard through the twisties.

I have a Pedal Commander and push hard through twisties and NEVER overheated. If I had the choice of a reflash or the PC again, I'd do the PC again. I like the ability to turn it off if I'm taking it to a shop or letting another ride it. I like that I can change the sensitivity while under way.

 

[RayBJ]

Whatever problem caused your friend's overheating was very unlikely to have been due to the PC. The PC doesn't alter anything but the sensitivity of the throttle. I've ridden hard in the twisties in +100 temps without any overheating.

 

[Knizar]

If Pedal Commander or Pedal Box are the fix for slow throttle response, does anyone believe that might help the response for the Cruise Control? My CC has always been slow for resume and accelerate. (sorry if this is off subject)...:thumbup:...Bill

 

[RayBJ]

I haven't noticed any undue lag with my '20 RT CC but this is my 1st Spyder so I have no baseline.
Re: your signature, "When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout".

 

[Peteoz]

WOW!!!
I could not even imagine having a delay in throttle response time. for my style of driving and what I am use to it could cause serious confidence problems. I wouldn't feel comfortable in passing a car or large truck. That could lead to disastrous consequences if your hustling to pass someone and you start to second guess yourself.
How could a system like that ever leave the factory or a engineers drawing boards???? OMG.
I stand corrected! :shocked:pps:
Tim

It’s not as bad as it sounds, Tim. I believe the slight lag was introduced to meet emissions standards. If you stay in the right gear, you won’t really notice it……but if you are daydreaming in too high a gear and grab a handful of throttle, it takes a short time (a very short time), to kick in. I have never found it dangerous, per se, just a bit frustrating :thumbup: …… and it’s an easy, cheap fix if you go the Pedal Box/Pedal Commander route, or an easy, slightly more expensive fix if you go the retune option (which has added benefits).

Pete

 

[poochiej1]

Pedal Commander solves that issue, the drive by wire on the Spyders are not 1 to1 for safety and ease of riding if I set my Pedal commander to sport or sport+ it is so instant that is is impossible to ride smoothly when on and off throttle way to jumpy.

 

[RICZ]

Pedal Commander solves that issue, the drive by wire on the Spyders are not 1 to1 for safety and ease of riding if I set my Pedal commander to sport or sport+ it is so instant that is is impossible to ride smoothly when on and off throttle way to jumpy.

Then tone it down. I find the City range adequate.