The Value of Wearing Good Gear

[Jeriatric]

Chris and Captain Fin. (Not that what I think matters)

I agree with you guys on so many levels. But, then I think this. What a *powerful* time to broach the subject. When people will REALLY think about it. Not unlike the wounds Lamont and his wife suffer. There will be a healing here too. Meaning as time passes the impact to the psychic diminishes. tol

 

[mcaccamise]

Ride safe and wear the gear that you think appropriate were all adults here and for the most part have ridden long enough to do what we feel is right on this subject.
Mike

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

Let them go at it

Dave01,

I couldn't agree with you more. But, GeoffCee is also entitled to his opinion as are you. GeoffCee may have been able to get his point across without being so brash (as you may think he is); that's not his style.

The one point that GeoffCee makes that I feel is a good one (and my opinion only) is that less experienced riders may be influenced into using less gear by MrBones years of experience statement. You may think just the opposite, which is fine. Everyone has an opinion and I think it's great when we are not all in lock step. Once again, my opinion only.

I can see the humour in two seniors battling it out who both make some valid points.

I am 44 and my experience has been that less experienced riders have that indestructible attitude. Us riders that have been around for a while realize our own mortality.

My 17 year old who has written off 2 cars expressed he wanted to ride. I laughed at him and told him he is not ready. Told him you don't get to write off a bike, you just die. Trying to scare him and keep him off a street bike until he is older. Some of the things I did on a bike when I was his age, I am lucky to be here.

I look at it this way. When I was young I would get up a tall ladder and think nothing of it. No p.p.e. Now when I get up a tall ladder with all the gear I think, man if I fall from here its going to hurt.

My theory is, it all depends where you are in your life, what your past experiences have been, what they safety culture is where you live, and the risk you feel comfortable with.

Well it's raining outside and I love to ride in the rain. Have a great day people.

 

[bzbaeren]

Good gear

When I first started riding 40 some years ago the guy that got me started said you never know when you are going down until its to late that was just after his first accident. He always insisted on all the gear and although I chaffed at the restrictions I was borrowing one of his rides so I had to. Today I sound like him to any that will listen I think it is silly not to be ready for the wreck.:sour:

 

[Spidergirl]

All this has motivated me. Just ordered summer mesh jackets for wife and I.

You won't regret them!! Hubby and I bought ours a couple of years ago!!:clap:

 

[Buttsy]

I personally don't think that right now is the appropriate time to be addressing this subject even though there may be a good lesson.

Chris

I would have to agree.............

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

I would have to agree.............

I have never met Lamont, so maybe I am out of line, but to look at terrible event in a positive light, he has inspired some people to evaluate their riding gear. That doesn't seem like a bad thing. If it can happen to a very experienced rider, it can happen to all of us. I am glad they are going to be okay. The timing may seem like a bad thing, but on a positive note it goes to show you how well regarded Lamont is, and rightfully so.

 

[Bob Ledford]

Even the heaviest jacket or the thickest denim jeans, are not abrasion resistant. Most synthetic garments will actually melt under abrasion, and that melted plastic is a bear to remove from wounds. Only leather or abrasion resistant textiles will save your hide. Armor makes them even better, and may save some broken bones and bruises...as well as providing additional abrasion resistance. If you are gonna wear the gear, make sure it's the right gear!

Agreed but when it does not exist in the retail market you improvise. Living in The Daytona Beach area you would be amazed at the non-protective gear we see on all groups of riders. Especially the 16/25 crotch rocket set and the 21/65 TTT (tavern to tavern) group. Been studying them since1955 except for TDY breaks while in the employ of the USA.

 

[Bob Ledford]

Clothing versus riding

Today I actually surprised myself. I was in the mood for a long ride. The weather was 94 degrees humidity felt like a 100%. Sunny w/o a cloud in the sky. No sea breeze blowing.
.I put everything off and said, no it is to hot at high noon. I was standing in the garage with a fan running full tilt. Soaking a cotton tee shirt and cotton/poly gym shorts and sneakers.

First time I have ever done that since 1955. Scarey thought, I am getting some good sense!

Guess what it cooled off about 6 PM clouded up, started to rain and the Spyder did not get ridden at all

 

[MrBones]

One problem with a fatalistic outlook like yours is you don't think you are ever going to end up in a paraplegic condition where other people have to do things for you that you currently do for yourself. My impression is that at a personal level you believe you are indestructible. As for bragging about having been in 3 major mishaps and survived, well your pathetic disregard of the dangers of using the highway might influence a younger person into believing some of what you say makes sense, which means you really should think hard before you sound off on an open forum. You won't be surprised if I tell you that your 80 years have not taught you one ounce of common sense. By the way, you are only 4 years older than me so your old age counts for nothing, not a damn thing.

Boy you read allot into a personal opinion. You have completely misunderstood my post. I do not have a fatalistic outlook nor consider myself indestructible, quite the opposite, I had many healing days to ponder it. And I assure you I was not bragging at all. Do you really think 3 mishaps is something anyone would brag about? I was simply stating my preference of clothing. As for common sense do you think you used it in your post? My age counts for allot to me and me alone. And an open forum is just that an idea expressed for people to think about. I doubt if anyone will be influenced by what I believe is best for me. So you have a great time and try to cheer up a bit.

 

[Flanker]

Was it an "angry bird?"

LOL! Good one. I'm not sure if it was angry or not, but I was definitely a "skeered" Flanker! hyea:

 

[SteveMac]

One problem with a fatalistic outlook like yours is you don't think you are ever going to end up in a paraplegic condition where other people have to do things for you that you currently do for yourself. My impression is that at a personal level you believe you are indestructible. As for bragging about having been in 3 major mishaps and survived, well your pathetic disregard of the dangers of using the highway might influence a younger person into believing some of what you say makes sense, which means you really should think hard before you sound off on an open forum. You won't be surprised if I tell you that your 80 years have not taught you one ounce of common sense. By the way, you are only 4 years older than me so your old age counts for nothing, not a damn thing.

It is precisely this "Holier than thou" attitude that always vexes me most when this topic comes up. You want to be ATGATT? Fine. But if Bones chooses not to, then he shouldn't be subjected to a post of the type you aimed at him.

Your contention that his choice of gear will result in him being a paraplegic or saying you think he believes himself indestructible has about as much validity as a cager who believes the utmost safety is to be in his Chevy Suburban. And that YOU believe YOU are indestructible because YOU choose to ride that open air Spyder regardless of your ATGATT. The cager accuses YOU of lacking common sense and influencing young people to follow in your reckless footsteps. I wonder,,, in that circumstance,,, if you would say that cager's argument was less valid than the one you directed at Bones? You would probably still think that your opinion was the only one that was correct.

The fact of the matter would be that both you and the cager are correct to a point. You are correct that Bones would be safer in ATGATT than not. And that hypothetical cager would also be right that you would be safer in a Suburban than a Spyder. But thankfully, you have a right to make the choice to ride the Spyder. And if you can set aside your arrogance then you will see that Bones has that same darn right to choose.

Open air riding has risks. It is up to each individual rider to determine their acceptable level of risk. And they should have some reasonable expectation that they can voice their choice without having a post like yours directed at them.

My final point is that I have yet to meet anyone who meets my personal definition of the acronym ATGATT. That would require a rider to gear up 100% in the utmost protective gear every single time you get your Spyder on the road. Anything less than that is by its very definition, not ATGATT. At best it is MOTGATT Most of the gear all the time, or pick any other of the various levels of protection that a given rider wears at a given time. Obviously ATGATT is open to some interpretation and choice of what it means to any given rider.

 

[MrBones]

Thank you Steve very well put.

 

[FaranH]

Just a reminder...

I personally don't think that right now is the appropriate time to be addressing this subject even though there may be a good lesson.

Chris

Agree 100%.

I debated adding anything else (and it may be irrelevant now that this thread is out there), but please read anyway.

• Did the OP and subsequent people post relevant and helpful safety information? - Yes
• Is Spyderlovers read by thousands of people who glean good information from posts like this? - Yes
• Have Lamont and his wife Chris even scabbed up from the wreck yet? - No

While Spyderlovers is for all of us (and Lamont would be the first to say so), let's please remember that we owe this forum to just one man who hurting physically and emotionally right now. His beloved wife was finally riding with him again and now this happens. He's posted here and on FB that it's killing him to see her hurt like this and he feels like it's his fault.

Posting about the gear that we "should" wear serves at this moment so soon after the wreck as a reminder that he and she didn't. Think that just might be eating at him?

I know that the OP and others never intended harm by this post. But perhaps the timing would have been more appropriate in a few weeks. As my 10-year old puts it "Just sayin' "

 

[GeoffCee]

It is precisely this "Holier than thou" attitude that always vexes me most when this topic comes up. You want to be ATGATT? Fine. But if Bones chooses not to, then he shouldn't be subjected to a post of the type you aimed at him.

Your contention that his choice of gear will result in him being a paraplegic or saying you think he believes himself indestructible has about as much validity as a cager who believes the utmost safety is to be in his Chevy Suburban. And that YOU believe YOU are indestructible because YOU choose to ride that open air Spyder regardless of your ATGATT. The cager accuses YOU of lacking common sense and influencing young people to follow in your reckless footsteps. I wonder,,, in that circumstance,,, if you would say that cager's argument was less valid than the one you directed at Bones? You would probably still think that your opinion was the only one that was correct.

The fact of the matter would be that both you and the cager are correct to a point. You are correct that Bones would be safer in ATGATT than not. And that hypothetical cager would also be right that you would be safer in a Suburban than a Spyder. But thankfully, you have a right to make the choice to ride the Spyder. And if you can set aside your arrogance then you will see that Bones has that same darn right to choose.

Open air riding has risks. It is up to each individual rider to determine their acceptable level of risk. And they should have some reasonable expectation that they can voice their choice without having a post like yours directed at them.

My final point is that I have yet to meet anyone who meets my personal definition of the acronym ATGATT. That would require a rider to gear up 100% in the utmost protective gear every single time you get your Spyder on the road. Anything less than that is by its very definition, not ATGATT. At best it is MOTGATT Most of the gear all the time, or pick any other of the various levels of protection that a given rider wears at a given time. Obviously ATGATT is open to some interpretation and choice of what it means to any given rider.

I don't mind being taken apart for something that I've said but I draw the line at feeling any responsibility for what I didn't say.

I didn't say MrBones would become a paraplegic if he didn't wear protective gear, I said he had a fatalistic outlook in which he appeared to exclude the possibility of becoming a paraplegic, etc. "I believe that if your going to buy it, no amount of armor is going to save you.

I didn't say he was indestructible, he implied it himself with the following. "I have never owned a leather jacket nor chaps nor any armor clothing. Have only been riding since 1945 so don't know much of the new standards. Have been in 3 major mishaps, hit broad side, laid it down racing a car, and hit a deer. So I do know about road rash and stuff. But I still only wear a open face helmet and ankle high boots. ... I'm just more comfortable and enjoy the freedom of a non armored ride.""

And it was those last couple of sentences which I objected to most. He's 80 years old, survived 3 major accidents and STILL rides in ankle boots and an open face helmet, and why? For no better reason than he enjoys the "freedom" of a non-armored ride. Great, I believe in freedom as much as anyone, EXCEPT that it's just the kind of devil-may-care gung-ho attitude that a youngster fresh on two wheels might love to hear from a "wise old man" as we approach the height of summer.

In my time I've had been asked by two fathers if I'd advise their young sons about riding motorcycles. Neither father had ever owned a bike. Youngsters often find a stranger's advice more compelling than that of their parents. I still haven't completely worked out why that is. I stressed that protective gear cannot prevent an accident, it can only mitigate against some of the damage if one should occur.

You accuse me of coming across as "holier-than-thou". I didn't say that MrBones should follow my example, I said he should think before sounding off on an open forum. If you believe that is holier-than-thou then maybe you're right.

 

[wyliec]

SteveMac,

The problem with the internet is that you don't hear a person's tone of voice. Instead (IMHO) what you perceive may be based on your own personal experience dealing with others. My own personal experience made me 'hear' DrBones say:

I've all these years of experience and been through multiple accidents and I don't need all the gear (as he beats his chest).

My perception was based solely on my own personal dealings with others who start out by stating years of experience or how long they've been in the business.

The way I perceive you and GeoffCee is very articulate and intelligent. I may be completely off base here.

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Perhaps if we all sat down, collected our thoughts, and had a dish of ice cream; things might calm down a bit... :shocked:

 

[GeoffCee]

I may be completely off base here.

I do wish you hadn't said that.

I could use a favorable comment or two. I'm not desperate enough to offer money...! Not yet. :joke:

 

[Bob Denman]

Geoff,
A favorable comment?
Your taste in bikes is remarkable, and your ability to mount a Stebel in them is amazing! :2thumbs: :bowdown:

 

[SteveMac]

SteveMac,

The problem with the internet is that you don't hear a person's tone of voice. Instead (IMHO) what you perceive may be based on your own personal experience dealing with others. My own personal experience made me 'hear' DrBones say:

I've all these years of experience and been through multiple accidents and I don't need all the gear (as he beats his chest).

My perception was based solely on my own personal dealings with others who start out by stating years of experience or how long they've been in the business.

The way I perceive you and GeoffCee is very articulate and intelligent. I may be completely off base here.

I agree. The written word on the internet is often about reading our own preconceptions into what someone else wrote. By your own admission, your perception is that Bones was "beating his chest". On the other hand my perception was that he pointed out how long he had been riding, that he had been involved in accidents and yet he still made the choice of riding with less than ATGATT. So you are correct in saying that our preconceptions do influence how we read a current post.

Using preconceptions, we "interpret" meaning from something that hasn't actually been written. Bones didn't actually type the words "beating my chest". Rather, that was what you read into it. I am not judging you,, because we all do that. I think it is human nature.

Where I feel Geoff crossed the line is when he also interprets "beating of the chest" and then uses words like "pathetic disregard of the dangers ", OR , "You won't be surprised if I tell you that your 80 years have not taught you one ounce of common sense". In these examples, there is NO interpretation needed. No, this is clearly one seasoned member here trying to use demeaning language to browbeat a newer member in conforming to an opinion that Geoff strongly holds. That is not acceptable to me as a fellow seasoned member on an OPEN forum.

We can always disagree on what is truly ATGATT, what is a safer material, what are more noticeable colors and so forth. Much of this can be supported with statistics and facts, but yet some will choose an open face helmet or perhaps no helmet at times. That is their choice and they exercise it. But I contend that it is also safer, in an identical accident, to be in that Chevy Suburban than on a Spyder. Yet members here by the thousands continue to ride their Spyder. Why? Choice. Thank God we still have that.