• There were many reasons for the change of the site software, the biggest was security. The age of the old software also meant no server updates for certain programs. There are many benefits to the new software, one of the biggest is the mobile functionality. Ill fix up some stuff in the coming days, we'll also try to get some of the old addons back or the data imported back into the site like the garage. To create a thread or to reply with a post is basically the same as it was in the prior software. The default style of the site is light colored, but i temporarily added a darker colored style, to change you can find a link at the bottom of the site.

The end of Chuck.

HYDROPLANING

Do you or Mike have independent reliable references? Both your diametrically opposed theories seem reasonable to me. Maybe I should start a separate thread....
" reliable references " ..... I have Science and Schooling ............ I think Easy Rider uses the " my Butt tells me " theory :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: .... annnnnnnnnnnnd the MAIN reason Hydroplaning is on this Thread was NOT to Hy-jack it ....But to answer YOUR questions ..... See post #13 .......Mike :thumbup:
 
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" reliable references " ..... I have Science and Schooling ............ I think Easy Rider uses the " my Butt tells me " theory :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: .... Mike :thumbup:
Okay, let's try to keep this civil and informative as well as entertaining!. I'll start another thread.
 
HYDROPLANING

Okay, let's try to keep this civil and informative as well as entertaining!. I'll start another thread.
" CIVIL " ....what's not civil about my post ???? ...where were you when Easy Rider called me an " ASS " in one of His nasty posts ????? ...At least what I have to say isn't going to get someone HURT or worse ......unlike - YOU KNOW WHO ..... how's this for a solution , I'll just ignore your questions :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: ............ ride happy - ride safe ..... Mike :thumbup:
 
" CIVIL " ....what's not civil about my post ???? ...where were you when Easy Rider called me an " ASS " in one of His nasty posts ????? ...At least what I have to say isn't going to get someone HURT or worse ......unlike - YOU KNOW WHO ..... how's this for a solution , I'll just ignore your questions :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: ............ ride happy - ride safe ..... Mike :thumbup:
Geez, Mike, where did that come from? I wasn't implying your post was uncivil. No need to be offended. I was just hoping to head off a flame-out between you two.
 
STOPPING - OK

Were you looking in the mirror when you composed that rant ??
If not, you should have been.

Just stop, please.
Where's the 90 second TIE-DOWN video ???? have you decided that claim was ........ " Hooey " :gaah::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:........... Mike :thumbup:
 
OMG

Geez, Mike, where did that come from? I wasn't implying your post was uncivil. No need to be offended. I was just hoping to head off a flame-out between you two.
Geez, Pete .... You quoted me and then you said " let's keep things Civil " .......... So I'm to think You were referring to some one ELSE ..... WHO exactly ???? .......I don't know of any other BLUEKNIGHT911 ............ This is what AMAZES me about some folks on this site ..... They say something, they don't know what they are or don't mean what they are saying ....then act surprised when that person replies back :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: .......... People who try to be PEACEMAKERS generally make things WORSE :gaah::gaah:........That's JMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:
 
Geez, Pete .... You quoted me and then you said " let's keep things Civil " .......... So I'm to think You were referring to some one ELSE ..... WHO exactly ???? .......I don't know of any other BLUEKNIGHT911 ............ This is what AMAZES me about some folks on this site ..... They say something, they don't know what they are or don't mean what they are saying ....then act surprised when that person replies back :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: .......... People who try to be PEACEMAKERS generally make things WORSE :gaah::gaah:........That's JMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:

Mike, this is exactly the pointless back and forth I was hoping to avoid. Fine, it's all my fault for even trying. Can we move on?
 
Do you or Mike have independent reliable references?.

Do a Google search for "hydroplaning".

And note that none of the first 20 hits even hint at lowering your tire pressure to improve traction on wet pavement.
I refuse to waste my time going beyond that......just to refute an egotistical blowhard who's answer to the slightest hint of disagreement is to make a personal attack on the dissenter.

One example:
[h=2]AIR PRESSURE & WET PERFORMANCE[/h][FONT=&quot]Tire air pressure has a big impact on how your tires perform in the rain. For this reason, we recommend checking your air pressure once a month, and before any long trips. For the best performance, you should set your tires to the manufacturer’s recommended air pressure.


[/FONT]
 
"Having MORE rubber on the road is NOT necessarily a good thing when it comes to hydroplaning.
The larger the contact patch IS makes it easier for the water to "lift" the weight off the road......in general."


Mike, Easy Rider has a valid point here. I've worked with guys who own and drive dually trucks (F250's and F350's) and most if not all have turned away from duallys and returned to single drive wheels do to the loss of traction. In adverse conditions (rain, snow or mud) more rubber on the ground is not necessarily a good thing. More rubber on the ground does raise the vehicle higher off the ground and in adverse conditions results in a loss of traction and control. Narrower tires do a much better job of providing control and traction in wet and or adverse conditions......in general. We didn't have to go to school to learn that concept, we learned that in the field under practical conditions, and not from theoretical results. So, please don't get your dander up and think I'm ridiculing you in any sense of the word, because I'm not. Weight also has a bearing in these situations but I don't want to go on and beat this subject to death.
 
It has been mentioned now at least three times. If you have to drive through standing water, slowing down (below 55) will improve your chances to survive a hydroplaning incident. The "nanny" also helps. It is true. It has happened to me twice (mentioned earlier), and slowing down does work.

The manual also addresses the situation. No cure--just slow down and be alert to the situation.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
Another pissing contest.......

I would advise all to just evaluate multiple posts on multiple subjects and make an independent decision on whom they feel the subject experts are.

Some use science and reliable sources, some don't. Decide for yourself then use their info to guide your decisions. Avoid the drama. :thumbup:
 
WELLLLLLL NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT

"Having MORE rubber on the road is NOT necessarily a good thing when it comes to hydroplaning.
The larger the contact patch IS makes it easier for the water to "lift" the weight off the road......in general."


Mike, Easy Rider has a valid point here. I've worked with guys who own and drive dually trucks (F250's and F350's) and most if not all have turned away from duallys and returned to single drive wheels do to the loss of traction. In adverse conditions (rain, snow or mud) more rubber on the ground is not necessarily a good thing. More rubber on the ground does raise the vehicle higher off the ground and in adverse conditions results in a loss of traction and control. Narrower tires do a much better job of providing control and traction in wet and or adverse conditions......in general. We didn't have to go to school to learn that concept, we learned that in the field under practical conditions, and not from theoretical results. So, please don't get your dander up and think I'm ridiculing you in any sense of the word, because I'm not. Weight also has a bearing in these situations but I don't want to go on and beat this subject to death.
OK - if this is the case , are you planning on notifying the BRP engineers about the 225/50-15 tires they feel are the best size for THEIR Spyder ??????????? ........ I'm guessing NO ..... PS - 95% of ALL the tires I have recommended are NARROWER - than OEM !!!!!! ....... I'm betting you didn't realize that :dontknow: ..... Mike :thumbup:
 
Pi**ing contest

Another pissing contest.......

I would advise all to just evaluate multiple posts on multiple subjects and make an independent decision on whom they feel the subject experts are.

Some use science and reliable sources, some don't. Decide for yourself then use their info to guide your decisions. Avoid the drama. :thumbup:
If you feel that discussing Truth vs. Fiction is a p*ssing contest then please Add me to your ignore list .....If you feel someone spewing Dangerous info is OK..... Then also add me to your Ignore list if you haven't already......your welcome ......... Mike :thumbup:
 
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WELLLLLLL NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT

Do a Google search for "hydroplaning".

And note that none of the first 20 hits even hint at lowering your tire pressure to improve traction on wet pavement.
I refuse to waste my time going beyond that......just to refute an egotistical blowhard who's answer to the slightest hint of disagreement is to make a personal attack on the dissenter.

One example:
AIR PRESSURE & WET PERFORMANCE

Tire air pressure has a big impact on how your tires perform in the rain. For this reason, we recommend checking your air pressure once a month, and before any long trips. For the best performance, you should set your tires to the manufacturer’s recommended air pressure.


Please give US an example of a Car TIRE Manufacturer's recommended PSI for the Spyder ?????? ...... I'd REALLY like to here this ...........Mike :thumbup:
 
Funnily enough, dropping your tire pressures a little often DOES help reduce hydroplaning, because it doesn't usually make the contact patch much WIDER, it generally makes that contact patch proportionally LONGER - and in doing so allows the sipes & grooves in the tread to move a little as they flex onto the road surface,, gripping the road like little fingers, as well as effectively PUMPING the water away from the contact patch, and in doing this it also lessens the wedge of water created in front of the tire that is what lifts the contact patch & creates the hydroplaning problem in the first place!! :shocked:

But it is a fairly fine line, tire pressure that's too high makes the tire unable to flex so it can't act as a pump or reach optimum operating temps, so it's like running on a railway wheel.... fine while you are going slow enough, but they'll always give an awful rough ride, and once you get going faster, it gives you all the drawbacks of an ice skate on polished concrete & none of the benefits!! Plus it only lets the tread pattern grooves move water away from the contact patch - none or very little gets moved by the smaller sipes; the tread compound itself is too cold & hard to do any 'gripping'; the sipes don't open as the tread flexes onto the contact patch so it doesn't do any of the 'pumping action' that the tread is designed to create; and the compound itself is either too cold & hard to grab (cos the tire hasn't flexed enough to warm up) or it's too hot & runny & floppy as it approaches delamination temps!! :sour:

Then there's the little window which is the optimum pressure for the load that Mike & I spend so much time talking about, where both the tread pattern and the tread compound get to work as they were designed under the load placed upon them and btw, once you are running aftermarket tires, those optimum pressures generally have little to do with the vehicle manufacturers 'recommended pressures' for the OE Spec tires, simply because they are mainly TIRE & LOAD dependant, varied a little by riding style & ambient temps etc, but definitely not aimed at selling more vehicles or OE Spec tires. The tread grooves start moving water away from the contact patch as the tire rolls onto the road; the smaller channels & sipes open as the tread flexes down onto the road & then start to close as they pass thru the contact patch, initially collecting & grabbing water & then forcing it out to the sides of the tire as they close, acting like little pumps to move more water away from the contact patch; and at the same time they are acting as sticky fingers grabbing onto the road surface & hanging on because they are hot & sticky without being too hot to be virtually useless &/or runny/delaminating!! :2thumbs:

And then you can get pressures that are too low, generally down so low that the tire might have difficulties staying on the rim. This is where lowering the pressure starts making the contact patch wider more than it makes it longer, and it is pretty low for most aftermarket tires carrying the fairly light load imposed by our Spyders.... think about even lower than about 8psi, down in that vicinity, but if you do the 'ink test' on the contact patch (use a small puddle of water on an otherwise dry road instead of ink & paper tho, it's easier to source, do, and clean up! ;) ) you'll see very quickly when the contact patch width stastaincreasesr ts to increase proportionally MORE than its length increases as the pressures drop & you lower the tire under its load onto a dry surface.... you really don't want to be fown there, cos the tire CAN roll off the rim, the centre of the tread/contact patch starts to bow up & in, lifting off the road surface & allowing even more water to collect in there, the outside edge of the tread becomes the only bits left touching the road surface, massively reducing the contact patch area & minimising grip & the ability of the tread to move water out of the way, and basically becoming almost as dangerous as running pressures that are too high!! :rolleyes:

So in a nutshell, tire pressures that are too high are dangerous; tire pressures that are too low are dangerous; & the 'just right' tire pressures that Mike & I bang on so much about are as safe as you'll get, JUST SO LONG AS YOU DROP YOUR SPEED to be SLOW ENOUGH BEFORE YOU HIT THE WATER!! :thumbup:

Someone said it earlier, ! I'll paraphrase it here - the best preventative action against hydroplaning you can take is less twist in that right wrist.... :lecturef_smilie:
 
Funnily enough, dropping your tire pressures a little often DOES help reduce hydroplaning, because it doesn't usually make the contact patch much WIDER, it generally makes that contact patch proportionally LONGER - and in doing so allows the sipes & grooves in the tread to move a little as they flex onto the road surface,, gripping the road like little fingers, as well as effectively PUMPING the water away from the contact patch, and in doing this it also lessens the wedge of water created in front of the tire that is what lifts the contact patch & creates the hydroplaning problem in the first place!! :shocked:

Then there's the little window which is the optimum pressure for the load that Mike & I spend so much time talking about, where both the tread pattern and the tread compound get to work as they were designed under the load placed upon them and btw, once you are running aftermarket tires, those optimum pressures generally have little to do with the vehicle manufacturers 'recommended pressures' for the OE Spec tires, simply because they are mainly TIRE & LOAD dependant,

And then you can get pressures that are too low, generally down so low that the tire might have difficulties staying on the rim. This is where lowering the pressure starts making the contact patch wider more than it makes it longer, and it is pretty low for most aftermarket tires carrying the fairly light load imposed by our Spyders.... think about even lower than about 8psi, down in that vicinity,

So in a nutshell, tire pressures that are too high are dangerous; tire pressures that are too low are dangerous; & the 'just right' tire pressures that Mike & I bang on so much about are as safe as you'll get, JUST SO LONG AS YOU DROP YOUR SPEED to be SLOW ENOUGH BEFORE YOU HIT THE WATER!! :thumbup:

Someone said it earlier, ! I'll paraphrase it here - the best preventative action against hydroplaning you can take is less twist in that right wrist.... :lecturef_smilie:
Thanks, Peter, I was hoping you would weigh in on this. Very valuable insight. Mike has been saying the same thing, I'm sure, but it can be a little difficult to understand his posts at times.
 
Thanks for taking the time to post that, Peter:thumbup:

So your research shows that a lower psi can help in the wet (and dry), but nothing is going to save you if you are travelling too fast and hit standing water....that’ll do me:thumbup:

Pete
 
Good answer, Peter!
Another factor if you are running aftermarket tires on a Spyder to consider is that the manufacturer's recommended tire pressures are based upon a great deal more weight than the Spyder has, so running a slightly lower pressure should improve the gripping and water dispersion. The tricky part is that that pressure is going to vary by multiple factors; weight of the byke (RT vs F3), what kind of load (one or two up), ryding style, and others I have missed. I think we each need to find that ideal tire pressure if we are running aftermarket tires.
I will give you a perfect example: Our RT and F3 have identical tires, front and back, (Federal EVO's on the front and Michelin Hydroedge on the rear). The RT has 40k miles on the rear tire and the F3 has about 12k. When there is any rain or the road is wet, the F3 is prone to spin in the first three gears. Whereas the RT will hardly spin a tire. I am extremely careful when ryding the F3 in wet conditions. I would probably not ryde it on the interstate at freeway speeds in much rain. The byke is just too light to ryde in heavy rain, regardless of tire pressure.
 
Funnily enough, dropping your tire pressures a little often DOES help reduce hydroplaning, because it doesn't usually make the contact patch much WIDER, it generally makes that contact patch proportionally LONGER - and in doing so allows the sipes & grooves in the tread to move a little as they flex onto the road surface,, gripping the road like little fingers, as well as effectively PUMPING the water away from the contact patch, and in doing this it also lessens the wedge of water created in front of the tire that is what lifts the contact patch & creates the hydroplaning problem in the first place!! :shocked:

But it is a fairly fine line, tire pressure that's too high makes the tire unable to flex so it can't act as a pump or reach optimum operating temps, so it's like running on a railway wheel.... fine while you are going slow enough, but they'll always give an awful rough ride, and once you get going faster, it gives you all the drawbacks of an ice skate on polished concrete & none of the benefits!! Plus it only lets the tread pattern grooves move water away from the contact patch - none or very little gets moved by the smaller sipes; the tread compound itself is too cold & hard to do any 'gripping'; the sipes don't open as the tread flexes onto the contact patch so it doesn't do any of the 'pumping action' that the tread is designed to create; and the compound itself is either too cold & hard to grab (cos the tire hasn't flexed enough to warm up) or it's too hot & runny & floppy as it approaches delamination temps!! :sour:

Then there's the little window which is the optimum pressure for the load that Mike & I spend so much time talking about, where both the tread pattern and the tread compound get to work as they were designed under the load placed upon them and btw, once you are running aftermarket tires, those optimum pressures generally have little to do with the vehicle manufacturers 'recommended pressures' for the OE Spec tires, simply because they are mainly TIRE & LOAD dependant, varied a little by riding style & ambient temps etc, but definitely not aimed at selling more vehicles or OE Spec tires. The tread grooves start moving water away from the contact patch as the tire rolls onto the road; the smaller channels & sipes open as the tread flexes down onto the road & then start to close as they pass thru the contact patch, initially collecting & grabbing water & then forcing it out to the sides of the tire as they close, acting like little pumps to move more water away from the contact patch; and at the same time they are acting as sticky fingers grabbing onto the road surface & hanging on because they are hot & sticky without being too hot to be virtually useless &/or runny/delaminating!! :2thumbs:

And then you can get pressures that are too low, generally down so low that the tire might have difficulties staying on the rim. This is where lowering the pressure starts making the contact patch wider more than it makes it longer, and it is pretty low for most aftermarket tires carrying the fairly light load imposed by our Spyders.... think about even lower than about 8psi, down in that vicinity, but if you do the 'ink test' on the contact patch (use a small puddle of water on an otherwise dry road instead of ink & paper tho, it's easier to source, do, and clean up! ;) ) you'll see very quickly when the contact patch width stastaincreasesr ts to increase proportionally MORE than its length increases as the pressures drop & you lower the tire under its load onto a dry surface.... you really don't want to be fown there, cos the tire CAN roll off the rim, the centre of the tread/contact patch starts to bow up & in, lifting off the road surface & allowing even more water to collect in there, the outside edge of the tread becomes the only bits left touching the road surface, massively reducing the contact patch area & minimising grip & the ability of the tread to move water out of the way, and basically becoming almost as dangerous as running pressures that are too high!! :rolleyes:

So in a nutshell, tire pressures that are too high are dangerous; tire pressures that are too low are dangerous; & the 'just right' tire pressures that Mike & I bang on so much about are as safe as you'll get, JUST SO LONG AS YOU DROP YOUR SPEED to be SLOW ENOUGH BEFORE YOU HIT THE WATER!! :thumbup:

Someone said it earlier, ! I'll paraphrase it here - the best preventative action against hydroplaning you can take is less twist in that right wrist.... :lecturef_smilie:

​Wow, those be a lot of words Peter. Sorry I just cannot trust anyone whose country is hanging upside down and eats "Bangers and Mash"!:D

​Jack
 
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