The dreaded right foot french frier

[Dan McNally]

Good morning All,

The more I think about this heat issue, on the right side, the more I wonder if we are not looking at it the wrong way.

Everyone including myself have been trying to redirect the hot air from the rad, is it at all possible that the heat generated is the result of a lack of fresh air being fed to the rad. in the first place.

Any thought on the subject.

Dom:banghead:

I could be wrong, but if insufficient air was flowing over the radiator, two things would happen . . . the engine would over heat . . . and there would not be that blast of hot air coming out behind the radiator straight at the right foot . . . I think the issue is where that air is vented. Down and out would, to me, appear better than straight at my right foot. A shame we couldn't get a CanAm engineer to explain the rationale of that air coming at us, rather than straight down, underneath.

 

[poordom]

I could be wrong, but if insufficient air was flowing over the radiator, two things would happen . . . the engine would over heat . . . and there would not be that blast of hot air coming out behind the radiator straight at the right foot . . . I think the issue is where that air is vented. Down and out would, to me, appear better than straight at my right foot. A shame we couldn't get a CanAm engineer to explain the rationale of that air coming at us, rather than straight down, underneath.

I could be wrong too, so does two wrongs make a right ?

I think we are all looking at possible solutions, and without trying different thing, we will never find a solution, right?

Maybe we should try and get an engineer involved, what the heck!

Dom

 

[NancysToy]

Although other heat sources may not be, heat at the radiator outlet vent is perfectly normal and unavoidable. When air enters the radiator the heat in the coolant transfers to the air and is exhausted through the vent. If you get 90 degree air in, you will get much warmer air out. You can't cheat physics. The problems arise when the air flow is diverted, the rider puts his feet near the vent, or aftermarket pegs are used which put the feet even closer. Different leg lengths and sizes can also put an individual rider's legs closer, as can differing riding postures. Slow vehicle movement, or cross winds can redirect thehot air toward the rider. BRP cannot readily design around all these possibilities. If you are having troubles, you may have to be part of the solution. Wearing protective gear or installing aftermarket fixes are possible answers. If a solution cannot be found, a different type of vehicle may be the only choice. All vehicles present certain compromises between design considerations and practicality, appearance, or economics. The Spyder is no exception. Such things have to be taken into consideration when electing to purchase or continue to own any vehicle. JMHO

 

[poordom]

Although other heat sources may not be, heat at the radiator outlet vent is perfectly normal and unavoidable. When air enters the radiator the heat in the coolant transfers to the air and is exhausted through the vent. If you get 90 degree air in, you will get much warmer air out. You can't cheat physics. The problems arise when the air flow is diverted, the rider puts his feet near the vent, or aftermarket pegs are used which put the feet even closer. Different leg lengths and sizes can also put an individual rider's legs closer, as can differing riding postures. Slow vehicle movement, or cross winds can redirect thehot air toward the rider. BRP cannot readily design around all these possibilities. If you are having troubles, you may have to be part of the solution. Wearing protective gear or installing aftermarket fixes are possible answers. If a solution cannot be found, a different type of vehicle may be the only choice. All vehicles present certain compromises between design considerations and practicality, appearance, or economics. The Spyder is no exception. Such things have to be taken into consideration when electing to purchase or continue to own any vehicle. JMHO

Wouldn't it stand to reason that the air or heat coming out of the rad. cannot be any greater than that of the coolant. in other words, the temperature outside, can only have the coolant reach its temperature sooner than later.

Doesn't also stand to reason that if one can lower the temperature of the coolant the air or heat generated would be a great deal lower, therefore if one would change the coolant thermostat to a lower temperature one, or even the change the temperature sensor controlling the fan to have the fan start at a lower temperature could solve this problem.

The above are thoughts and questions, and should not be considered as negative points.

Dom

 

[NancysToy]

Wouldn't it stand to reason that the air or heat coming out of the rad. cannot be any greater than that of the coolant. in other words, the temperature outside, can only have the coolant reach its temperature sooner than later.

Doesn't also stand to reason that if one can lower the temperature of the coolant the air or heat generated would be a great deal lower, therefore if one would change the coolant thermostat to a lower temperature one, or even the change the temperature sensor controlling the fan to have the fan start at a lower temperature could solve this problem.

The above are thoughts and questions, and should not be considered as negative points.

Dom

The air temp won't exceed that of the coolant, but that is plenty hot enough. Coolant temperatures run within a fairly small window. They cannot be lower than 195 degrees after the thermosat opens, in order to meet EPA emissions requirements. Cold engines are fairly dirty emissions wise. Changing the fan switch setting would be of little value, IMO. The Spyder fan typically runs only in slow traffic or very hot weather. Switching the fan on sooner would likely only lower the temperature at those low speeds when less air flows through the radiator naturally...and it would only make a 5-10 degree difference in water temp at best. Typically water cooled vehicles run in the 200-225 degree range during operation...especially in hot climates or weather. That is not considered to be overheating with modern emissions-friendly engines.

 

[poordom]

The air temp won't exceed that of the coolant, but that is plenty hot enough. Coolant temperatures run within a fairly small window. They cannot be lower than 195 degrees after the thermosat opens, in order to meet EPA emissions requirements. Cold engines are fairly dirty emissions wise. Changing the fan switch setting would be of little value, IMO. The Spyder fan typically runs only in slow traffic or very hot weather. Switching the fan on sooner would likely only lower the temperature at those low speeds when less air flows through the radiator naturally...and it would only make a 5-10 degree difference in water temp at best. Typically water cooled vehicles run in the 200-225 degree range during operation...especially in hot climates or weather. That is not considered to be overheating with modern emissions-friendly engines.

So, I guess the only valid solution is to completely divert the after radiator air, downwards, with as little obstruction as possible.

Dom

 

[NancysToy]

So, I guess the only valid solution is to completely divert the after radiator air, downwards, with as little obstruction as possible.

Dom

Not necessarily. It has to exit somewhere, and the air currents could bring it right back up the bottom or back of your leg. Completely redesigning the vehicle is complex, and has hidden pitfalls. If you cannot live with the air flow the way BRP designed it, perhaps the Spyder isn't the vehicle for you. I know that sounds harsh, and I don't mean it to be that way, but it is a reality. You can't make an owl into a chicken or a robin into an eagle.

 

[Doktor]

Not necessarily. It has to exit somewhere, and the air currents could bring it right back up the bottom or back of your leg. Completely redesigning the vehicle is complex, and has hidden pitfalls. If you cannot live with the air flow the way BRP designed it, perhaps the Spyder isn't the vehicle for you. I know that sounds harsh, and I don't mean it to be that way, but it is a reality. You can't make an owl into a chicken or a robin into an eagle.

I would agree, except I found nothing in the manual that says, "We've had this heating problem for several years, and you are going to have to live with it." I wasn't told that, when I bought my RT-S either.

I'm also thinking that another part of the solution might be if we can hook a high volume "muffin" fan, (I think that's what they are called) The type of fan they used to put in the side of a computer to cool the CPU, gently direct the flow straight out the bottom, or centrally under the cycle. I'm certainly no engineer, as I said at the onset of this thread, but it surely can be presented to the quality control section of BRP. Someone mentioned putting duct work, I saw somewhere, I think it was on this thread where their floorboards went up to the upper "black hole" that could possibly be the best solution and duct the hot air under that, and I may try approaching from that angle. I am not someone that just says, "fix it," and then just sit back and wait for someone to do 'it'. When I was in the Army, I saw a need for a secure way to hold oxygen bottles for patients that were being transported to appointments, I got hold of medical maintenance and told them what I wanted and help them design a prototype, it worked an reduced the possibility of busting the valve of if the cylinder was dropped. Those things can go off like an artillery round, and damage to personnel and equipment was prevented. I don't know if I had invented it, but it was a need met. We, as owners, owe it to people that buy a Can Am to get it solved, it may prevent a possible serious wreck from someone that suddenly reacts to his or her leg being burned, and swings into a cage as they try to get away from that heat. It may only seem like a nuisance, but often, people will react in inappropriate ways, to a stimulus and cause an inexcusable wreck, making that become a safety issue. BRP has spent a lot of money designing our vehicles, another few hours to design it better, surely, should worthwhile. Just my 2 cents, FWIW


Doc

 

[Dan McNally]

If you cannot live with the air flow the way BRP designed it, perhaps the Spyder isn't the vehicle for you. I know that sounds harsh, and I don't mean it to be that way, but it is a reality. .

With that mindset, I suppose everyone should remove the Baja Ron sway bars, the Elka shocks, the Akrapovic mufflers, and all the other inappropriately installed devices that change how their Spyder runs when it comes from the factory, because it isn't the vehicle for them? I see nothing wrong with people trying to make their ride more comfortable . . . JMHO

 

[NancysToy]

I would agree, except I found nothing in the manual that says, "We've had this heating problem for several years, and you are going to have to live with it." I wasn't told that, when I bought my RT-S either.

I am having a hard time understanding why and how BRP should hbe expected to provide explanations about a "problem" that is being caused by owners modifying their vehicles to change their foot position. It cannot be foreseen, and should not have to be warned against, IMO. I will certainly concede that BRP's 2013 footboards may have created a similar situation, and that they have some responsibility from that point onward, but that does not constitute having the problem "for several years". If an owner's modifications are the cause of putting him in harm's way, or even just create an inconvenience, the responsibility is his. If the mods are necessary for him to enjoy the vehicle, the choice of vehicles has to come into question. Spyders are fabulous vehicles, but they may not be suitable for everyone. If you tried a car and found the steering wheel hit your knees, would you buy that car?

 

[Doktor]

I am having a hard time understanding why and how BRP should hbe expected to provide explanations about a "problem" that is being caused by owners modifying their vehicles to change their foot position. It cannot be foreseen, and should not have to be warned against, IMO. I will certainly concede that BRP's 2013 footboards may have created a similar situation, and that they have some responsibility from that point onward, but that does not constitute having the problem "for several years". If an owner's modifications are the cause of putting him in harm's way, or even just create an inconvenience, the responsibility is his. If the mods are necessary for him to enjoy the vehicle, the choice of vehicles has to come into question. Spyders are fabulous vehicles, but they may not be suitable for everyone. If you tried a car and found the steering wheel hit your knees, would you buy that car?

The only mod I've made was after I experienced the problem that was the start of this thread. I'm not real big on modifications that change the function of the vehicle. I am completely in agreement with you, the Spyder is a great vehicle, and I didn't know that "the steering wheel hit my knee," until I owned it, even after I learned about the heat problem, my first thought was to call my service department to see if they had any suggestions, especially since I had heard that the 13's didn't have that kind of problem. I changed my foot position to try to compensate, I didn't make any changes until I'd researched the forum, and saw that a respected member had made the same type of change that I saw mine needed. I had the materials on hand that I felt would give me an idea if it would be a viable change, and that I might be able to purchase, if it looked like it would serve my purpose. The company that makes the commercial product I was attempting to duplicate even said that the person that designed the piece had created the first prototype used his wife's cookie sheet.
I wasn't trying to reinvent the wheel, my mod was only to correct an already existing problem, as matter of fact, when I spoke to my service department, they were the ones that recommended the commercially available block, and told me they would put it in for me.
I do not want the wheel remade, I really don't. The various threads aimed at excessive heat on the right foot, crossed various model years, and various models. Which is why I mentioned various years. I really do like my Spyder, I'm not having anything like 'buyer's remorse' either. My wife and I both like our bike, but if I could get this one problem resolved we would love it. Remember a couple of years back when Toyota had that cruise control problem, I never heard anyone say that they didn't want their cruise fixed, even if they really loved their Toyota. Yes, the cruise control was a dangerous thing, but if someone were to suddenly realize their foot was burning up, there would be a possibility they might make an inappropriate action, and put themselves or someone else in danger. It is an issue, and "I can live with it," won't make it be addressed. You've heard the term, "the squeaky wheel is the one that gets the grease." It would never have been brought to light, if the Toyota drivers had just said, "I can live with a faulty cruise control."
I'm not a troublemaker, but I am an advocate of the right thing being done.



Doc

 

[Dan McNally]

Doc, looking for a resolution to something that bothers many people is not being a troublemaker . . . you have done nothing wrong and are using the forum for its intended purpose . . . sharing . . . experiences, issues, solutions to issues . . . and an occasional joke. Lots of folks do lots of mods and I fail to understand some of the comments that are coming at you. I see nothing wrong with trying to find a solution to the hotfoot on the right . . . it is no different than people changing shocks, seats, sway bars, mufflers, or any of the other things folks tweak on their Spyder to make it better for them. Keep up the search - you owe no one here an explanation nor an apology. Dan

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: :clap: :2thumbs:

 

[CyncySpyder]

I already know that I'm wrong for doing this, but part of this has been done before

Jeff, our roomy at this years SpyderFest in Springfield had done a mod similar to whats been discussed here & did a small post about it with little attention, and I hope he doesn't mind me bringing it back to life :lecturef_smilie:

But he did mod his Block-Off Plate using a type of downspout & when I asked him about it at SpyderFest, he said it worked rather well:thumbup:

Jeff, I hope you don't mind me posting this, and I hope you don't get unwanted attention from ppl filling your PM box with questions, but I think it may be a piece in the puzzle to help with the issue at hand

So here's the link http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?44575-My-first-Mods and he did a follow up post stating he had to make a few other tweaks to it & here's that one as well
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?44684-still-fine-tuning-my-mods



I'm just the messenger & know only what he wrote about it in his post, so besides him telling me that it worked rather well for him, there is little other info I can add here.

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Chrome pipes coming out the side?!? COOL!! :2thumbs:

 

[jwulf74]

I agree with the guys above. We each have different needs and wants and one particular solution might not work for everyone. For example, the block off plates might work great for many people, but others might want a different look or something that functions differently. There is no harm with everyone trying different things and sharing the knowledge of what works, does not work, or solves a problem in a completely different way than others.

To all those willing and brave enough to try different things... :cheers:

 

[MouthPiece]

Jeff, our roomy at this years SpyderFest in Springfield had done a mod similar to whats been discussed here & did a small post about it with little attention, and I hope he doesn't mind me bringing it back to life :lecturef_smilie:

But he did mod his Block-Off Plate using a type of downspout & when I asked him about it at SpyderFest, he said it worked rather well:thumbup:

Jeff, I hope you don't mind me posting this, and I hope you don't get unwanted attention from ppl filling your PM box with questions, but I think it may be a piece in the puzzle to help with the issue at hand

So here's the link http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?44575-My-first-Mods and he did a follow up post stating he had to make a few other tweaks to it & here's that one as well
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?44684-still-fine-tuning-my-mods



I'm just the messenger & know only what he wrote about it in his post, so besides him telling me that it worked rather well for him, there is little other info I can add here.

Dave, I saw this thread sometime ago when it was posted. I think his idea was quite creative and appears to be effective. However, I'm not sure this will work, i.e., solve the fried foot problem, on the 2013 RT-S (or Limited for that matter). An explanation is in order.

First, it was a bit difficult for me to tell by the camera angle just where the chrome pipe was coming out. However, it appears as though the chrome pipe is coming out of what I call the "lower black hole of heat". This area is just below the upper black hole that Harvey installs his plate for a block. (I think).

If that is the case, then there is still going to be a problem. When BRP came out with the 2013 RT-S model, it came with custom foorboards instead of foot pegs. The floorboard on the "13" is much lower in position than the foot pegs on the 2010 through 2012 RT-S. Additionally, the flooboard runs all the way up next to that "lower black hole of heat". As I see it, this is exactly where the chrome pipe comes out. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. (it wouldn't be the first time for sure). Consequently, although the chrome pipe would in fact disperse heat from the lower black hole, it would be in the way of the floorboard on the 2013 model. I would note at this point that the 2013 RT does not have floorboards and this mod would probably fly as it would for the 2010-2012's.

Someone please chime in and comment.

Chris

 

[Doktor]

Dave, I saw this thread sometime ago when it was posted. I think his idea was quite creative and appears to be effective. However, I'm not sure this will work, i.e., solve the fried foot problem, on the 2013 RT-S (or Limited for that matter). An explanation is in order.

First, it was a bit difficult for me to tell by the camera angle just where the chrome pipe was coming out. However, it appears as though the chrome pipe is coming out of what I call the "lower black hole of heat". This area is just below the upper black hole that Harvey installs his plate for a block. (I think).

If that is the case, then there is still going to be a problem. When BRP came out with the 2013 RT-S model, it came with custom foorboards instead of foot pegs. The floorboard on the "13" is much lower in position than the foot pegs on the 2010 through 2012 RT-S. Additionally, the flooboard runs all the way up next to that "lower black hole of heat". As I see it, this is exactly where the chrome pipe comes out. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. (it wouldn't be the first time for sure). Consequently, although the chrome pipe would in fact disperse heat from the lower black hole, it would be in the way of the floorboard on the 2013 model. I would note at this point that the 2013 RT does not have floorboards and this mod would probably fly as it would for the 2010-2012's.

Someone please chime in and comment.

Chris

That's kind of what I thought, but that is kind reminiscent of the old phaetons of yesteryear, I like the idea, just not sure it would work, like you said, on the 2013's But it is a very imaginative modification,:clap:


Doc

 

[Bob Denman]

That might just come down to the, "angle of the dangle", on the exhaust outlet pipe. You could twist that baby around 360 degrees, to set up where you want the hot air headed... :2thumbs:

 

[MouthPiece]

It just won't work on the 13's Bob. Your right foot is slap dab where the lower black hole of heat is. The toes on your right foot would be on the chrome exhaust pipe.

Chris