Surging, Juicebox, and O2 sensors...

[DragonSpyder]

When I first got my Spyder almost 2 years (16K miles) ago it had an irratic idle and surged at any RPM. Trying to get any of the local dealers to help was almost impossible. So, I decided to go with the Evolution O2 modifier, race intake and fule pressure regulator. All I can say is the performance was significantly better, especially on the low-end. However, it still surged a bit (not nearly as bad as it was) and the idle was still not as steady as I felt it should be.

So, I decided to purchase a juicebox. I turned back the pressure regulator and reinstalled the O2 sensor. After installation and adjusting the settings I noticed that the throttle was much more responsive and performance was similar to before. The idle was better but the surging was still present and it stalled a couple times out of the blue. It also would stall on decel between 90-100MPH every 2nd or 3rd time for only a second (strong gas smell)

I called Two Bros and sent them the juicebox and they replaced with a new one free of charge. I installed with the same result. So, I decided to replaced the O2 sensor with the O2 modifier. No more stalling down low but the high speed stall is still present. I often ride in this speed range and always seem to be letting off in this range. Scary after passing a tractor trailer! I have tried all the juicebox settings with no success.

I removed the juicebox and looking for suggestions on how to proceed. It runs pretty good without the juicebox but the throttle is not as responsive and still have a bit of surging and irratic idle. Thanks!

 

[Recluze]

The surging is an inherent problem so it is doubtful a stock machine will ever idle properly.

Mine had gotten to the point where it would surge 400 rpm at idle about the same at 4000 RPM. I think the purge valve replacement may have solved the problem as it is good since they replaced that. But there was lot going on with my engine at the time so who really knows.

Maybe a bad exhaust header gasket as that seemed to cause it once for me.

Using name brand gas was another suggestion given to me that had no impact on the problem. Probably not a bad idea though.

Good luck.

 

[Capt John]

Check out this thread....This is what worked for me
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13750&highlight=canisterectomy&page=2

 

[aka1004]

my spyder has been surging, sputtering, back firing, burning a lot of gas, hesitating, and air to fuel ratio have been fluctuating a lot. than i started to get hint of gas fume, i knew it was time. i am already on 3rd evap-canister so taking it to dealer to put another one seems pointless.

my can is toast!!!
it's running better and a-f-r is rock solid and where it should be.

 

[DragonSpyder]

Great suggestions! I have already done the canisterectomy but the exhaust gasket may be something to check out. Anyone know best way to check for an exhaust leak?

 

[Recluze]

Exhaust gasket_ When the bike is cold and the panels off, start the bike and hold your hand around the joint(s). The right hand one seems to go out more often. If you feel exhaust gas coming out of it, it is bad. And since you got this far replace it with a Honda and forget about it. If it is not bad, it will be soon. The Honda ones look like they will last forever. And half the price. And easy to change.

And you can hear it if you know what to listen for. The bike makes a kind of knarley sound but it comes on so slowly as the gasket wears out that it is had to notice it.

 

[krb1945]

Topping up is a ...

"no, no" on these machines. It seems that everytime I top mine into the neck I smell gas after riding a few minutes. I check the cap and it is not leaking. I do believe raw gas is going into the evap can. When I don't top it up into the neck I don't get the gas smell.

I believe I have seen other threads on this site about this very subject. /Ken krb1945-OEM

 

[bone crusher]

"no, no" on these machines. It seems that everytime I top mine into the neck I smell gas after riding a few minutes. I check the cap and it is not leaking. I do believe raw gas is going into the evap can. When I don't top it up into the neck I don't get the gas smell.

I believe I have seen other threads on this site about this very subject. /Ken krb1945-OEM

I fill mine to the tippy top everytime...never an issue or a gas smell. I think these bikes are very individual in their function, at times...odd...

 

[Recluze]

Ditto on the topping off. With the poor fuel mileage, smallish tank, and the California mandated evaporative recovery system on gas pumps, i would only get far enough to fuel up again. I never have smelled gas on my bike. I fill it up until it sloshes on the side and off I go.

 

[boborgera]

I fill mine to the tippy top everytime...never an issue or a gas smell. I think these bikes are very individual in their function, at times...odd...

:agree:
Same here, fill it right to the top, I always look for the little triangle at the top of the gage. No gas odor and I'll go 175/180 miles before i need to stop for gas. And if you fill it that way every time you'll know exactly what your MPGs are. And like you say every Spyder acts a little different.
In my opinion BRP has an odd assembly line.:yikes:

 

[Firefly]

When I first got my Spyder almost 2 years (16K miles) ago it had an irratic idle and surged at any RPM. Trying to get any of the local dealers to help was almost impossible. So, I decided to go with the Evolution O2 modifier, race intake and fule pressure regulator. All I can say is the performance was significantly better, especially on the low-end. However, it still surged a bit (not nearly as bad as it was) and the idle was still not as steady as I felt it should be.

So, I decided to purchase a juicebox. I turned back the pressure regulator and reinstalled the O2 sensor. After installation and adjusting the settings I noticed that the throttle was much more responsive and performance was similar to before. The idle was better but the surging was still present and it stalled a couple times out of the blue. It also would stall on decel between 90-100MPH every 2nd or 3rd time for only a second (strong gas smell)

I called Two Bros and sent them the juicebox and they replaced with a new one free of charge. I installed with the same result. So, I decided to replaced the O2 sensor with the O2 modifier. No more stalling down low but the high speed stall is still present. I often ride in this speed range and always seem to be letting off in this range. Scary after passing a tractor trailer! I have tried all the juicebox settings with no success.

I removed the juicebox and looking for suggestions on how to proceed. It runs pretty good without the juicebox but the throttle is not as responsive and still have a bit of surging and irratic idle. Thanks!

I have the EXACT same intake setup and did the same as you--- lowered the gas pressure and installed the JB.

The 'STALLING' you are talking about is SCARY. Happened to me many times while passing---- engine died out for a few seconds and strong gas smell.

I also have done the canisterectomy.

So here's the deal... learned this from Seth O this weekend while 'performance testing'.

You have to be careful with settings 5 and 6 on the Juice Box. They CANNOT be set to the same number or it gets confused and will cut out on you! I had both settings 5 and 6 at "2". This is the 'reaction time' for it to decide which fuel mode to change to (mode 2 for acceleration, mode 3 for FULL throttle).

If you have 5 and 6 set for the same reaction time, the system gets confused on whether to use the fuel settings from 2 or 3.. and thus cuts the engine out..:yikes:.

After I changed them (now have 5 set to 3 and 6 set to 1).. I have not been able to make it cut out like it was before.

While I'm getting better MPG now with the JB, and the performance is good... it's still not as good as when I had the fuel pressure cranked up.... but I was getting REALLY bad MPG doing that.

I'm going to look into the new power commander setup with auto-tune feature.