Steering ABC's

[Zerocool]

I love all the opinions on this. I don't know what would explain the "click" or "pop" I heard and felt when I tried to stop it from steering to the right when it locked. It clicked or popped is a better word when I got the bars back to center.

HDX road it to the dealer tonight - road the snot out of it and couldn't repeat what happened to me. I'm hoping the tech might find something.

Please keep me/us posted what you find out.

I'm not having any issues riding, but when stopped at a red light the handlebars (on occasion) will jerk back toward center. Not sure that's indicative of a more severe issue. :dontknow:

 

[mike3069]

I love all the opinions on this. I don't know what would explain the "click" or "pop" I heard and felt when I tried to stop it from steering to the right when it locked. It clicked or popped is a better word when I got the bars back to center.

Can't help ya here, I haven't experienced this myself.

My comments here are not intended to address any of the issues people are having with steering annomolies. I am only trying to explain the things I have observed the VSS doing on MY :spyder2:. It has been a learning experiance figuring this stuff out, and I have spent a lot of time thinking about what causes the nanny to do certain things. Some of what I say here IS just my opinion, because BRP has not let anyone know exactly what paramiters are involved in the nanny's decision making process. It is a bit of a reverse engineering process to get a handle on what situations make nanny do specific things.

 

[Smylinacha]

We need a Nanny folder!:thumbup:

How is your flag holding up?

Can't help ya here, I haven't experienced this myself.

My comments here are not intended to address any of the issues people are having with steering annomolies. I am only trying to explain the things I have observed the VSS doing on MY :spyder2:. It has been a learning experiance figuring this stuff out, and I have spent a lot of time thinking about what causes the nanny to do certain things. Some of what I say here IS just my opinion, because BRP has not let anyone know exactly what paramiters are involved in the nanny's decision making process. It is a bit of a reverse engineering process to get a handle on what situations make nanny do specific things.

 

[Smylinacha]

Tech will be riding it Thursday so I'll let you know what he and Bobby say - hopefully something.

So you are saying you are stopped at a light and the bars go back to center on their own? Maybe like a car when the wheel straightens out when stopped?

Please keep me/us posted what you find out.

I'm not having any issues riding, but when stopped at a red light the handlebars (on occasion) will jerk back toward center. Not sure that's indicative of a more severe issue. :dontknow:

 

[Longlegs]

I rode mine a good ways while the steering was acting up. If the brake was dragging I am sure it would have been smokin hot. No way I could have gone that far with a brake draggin and not known it.

 

[Zerocool]

Tech will be riding it Thursday so I'll let you know what he and Bobby say - hopefully something.

So you are saying you are stopped at a light and the bars go back to center on their own? Maybe like a car when the wheel straightens out when stopped?

Yes, but in a quick jerk motion. Note, the handlebar is close to straight, off just a bit, then all of a sudden it'll jump.

 

[gazey]

I posted this reply on another thread thought I'd add to this one as well for any comments...

I have noticed while riding in the twisties that when the VSS kicks in to brake either front wheel I can hear the pads on the disc quite clearly.
Have you or anyone else noticed this very distinct brake noise during these "steering anomalies" It might just help pinpoint whether the problem is DPS or VSS.

 

[Firefly]

Actually not true. I've been under power in a corner and had the nanny use the brake on the outside wheel, to the point the brakes will smoke, without any interruption to the engine power, not once but many times. It is not required that a wheel lift for this to happen, only that there is enough force on the accelerometer to trigger the braking. The engine cutting out seems to happen only when the rear tire is about to break free from the turning and accelerating forces combined begining to exceed the available traction (the old traction circle from my racing days in play again).

When this happens you must hold extra pressure on the bars to maintain the turn. This could easily be percevied as the bike trying to turn in the opposite direction of the turn if you don't understand what is happening.

Good point. If anyone has ever ridden on a dirt road - this is easy to feel how the engine cutoff really works. Nail the gas and get things to spin--- the rear will go from center to one side adn the natural reaction may be to straighten the bars.

I've felt nanny braking both with and without the engine cutting out.

When I first got the Spyder I took plenty of time getting the nanny to kick on in various ways --- so I would know what to expect.

From someone that had the steering failure and has felt the VSS kick in doing plenty of crazy things--- I really still feel the steering problems are DPS related - not VSS.

 

[Zerocool]

If you're just sitting there, without any rider input, I wouldn't think your handlebars should be doing anything all by themselves....:yikes:

I'm going to drop it off to Garganos for its 6000 mile next week. I'll have him do a complete look-over then.

 

[mike3069]

From the Operators Guide-
VehicleStabilitySystem
(VSS)
The Spyder roadster is equipped with
a Vehicle Stability System (VSS). VSS
can help you control the direction of
the vehicle and reduce the risk of tipping
or rolling over in some situations.
VSS consists of:
– anAntilock Braking System(ABS)
that helps maintain steering control
during hard braking by preventing
the wheels fromlocking.
– a Traction Control System (TCS)
that helps prevent the rear wheel
from slipping. The TCSwill limit rear
wheel spin only if you turn the handlebars
(steer out of straight line) or
if vehicle speed exceeds 50 km/h
(31MPH).
– a Stability Control System (SCS)
is designed to limit the power driving
the rear tire and to brake individual
wheels, which reduces the risk
of losing control of the vehicle or
rolling over.

Not trying to argue Mike, we've ridden and talked some, and I respect you're experience. Just sayin' I've never experienced braking without power reduction during VSS engagement, nor do I recall reading anywhere that the nanny would apply brakes only for me.......:doorag:

No offense taken.

When trying to ride at the limit that the nanny will allow WITHOUT intervening, it IS possible to get these functions to opperate independently of each other by JUST exceeding the trigger limits for either the Traction control (engine cutout) or the anti-tip over (ABS on outside wheel).

If you look at what they are saying here closely, it appears to me that he SCS is actually made up by combining the TCS and ABS functions. In other words, BRP (or their PR people) made up a third control system by telling us that when they both come on at the same time they are a THIRD system.

 

[Lamonster]

:agree:
I do that all the time on Deals Gap. If you over steer it will go right to the brakes. It may try and cut the fuel but I sure can't tell.

 

[Way2Fast]

The primary reason that I think the steering issue goes beyond the power steering itself is that apparently my bike has never had working power steering. The unit was inoperative from day one, yet I had a steering control issue on two occasions. There was another poster who stated he also had steering problems even after the DPS fuses were pulled. If the DPS is not part of the picture and steering problems continue, it has to be something else that is responsible.

Someone had suggested that if the front brake was responsible, the brake would overheat...a totally wrong assumption. If the brake came on intermitently just enough to change the speed of whatever wheel was affected, the brakes would not even get warm. Just a slight drag lasting only a few seconds could change the Spyders direction.

 

[Lamonster]

If you have no power to the unit it can't steer itself. My guess is road conditions and/or driver input has to be the cause.

 

[mike3069]

The primary reason that I think the steering issue goes beyond the power steering itself is that apparently my bike has never had working power steering. The unit was inoperative from day one, yet I had a steering control issue on two occasions. There was another poster who stated he also had steering problems even after the DPS fuses were pulled. If the DPS is not part of the picture and steering problems continue, it has to be something else that is responsible.

Someone had suggested that if the front brake was responsible, the brake would overheat...a totally wrong assumption. If the brake came on intermitently just enough to change the speed of whatever wheel was affected, the brakes would not even get warm. Just a slight drag lasting only a few seconds could change the Spyders direction.

It is potentially possible that the ABS malfunctioning could cause an unexpected change of direction.

It is ALSO possible for a correctly functioning ABS to create a change of direction.

 

[Longlegs]

If you have no power to the unit it can't steer itself. My guess is road conditions and/or driver input has to be the cause.[/quote:agree: at least in part, with this. When mine acted up, it did so for quite a while, not momentarily. However I can see how easy it would be to overreact and steer the bike out of your lane. I was even on a stretch of brand new road, so ruts and crown did not play a roll in my situation. The way I kept in my lane was to steer in jerks. Kinda like when you are trying to loosen a rusted bolt. If you put all your effort in a hard pull you will likely bust your knuckles when it breaks loose.
It really felt like what I have experienced many times before on snowmobiles, when previous sleds skis have left frozen ruts and they become hard to steer out of.

 

[Zerocool]

It is potentially possible that the ABS malfunctioning could cause an unexpected change of direction.

It is ALSO possible for a correctly functioning ABS to create a change of direction.

And that's what I was saying in an earlier reply, that maybe (in some circumstances) the Spyder is behaving correctly by adjusting to road conditions, but is being interpreted by the rider as out-of-control. That's not to say that some haven't experienced real steering problems, but rather it may be a much smaller percent than what these posts indicate.

Hence, the need to work with the dealerships & BRP so that accurate use cases (data) can be captured.

 

[mike3069]

And that's what I was saying in an earlier reply, that maybe (in some circumstances) the Spyder is behaving correctly by adjusting to road conditions, but is being interpreted by the rider as out-of-control. That's not to say that some haven't experienced real steering problems, but rather it may be a much smaller percent than what these posts indicate.

Hence, the need to work with the dealerships & BRP so that accurate use cases (data) can be captured.

:agree:

 

[stgilmer]

I mentioned it in my Coolant leak Thread, but I figured I would mention it here also since it had to do with the steering. Why does the lights dim will idling and you turn the front tires, just pulling engine down? Or does that sound like a beginning of a problem?

 

[Way2Fast]

I mentioned it in my Coolant leak Thread, but I figured I would mention it here also since it had to do with the steering. Why does the lights dim will idling and you turn the front tires, just pulling engine down? Or does that sound like a beginning of a problem?

Probably because the steering is electrically powered and when used puts a draw on the electrical system that would be most noticable at low engine revs...like at idle.

 

[NancysToy]

I mentioned it in my Coolant leak Thread, but I figured I would mention it here also since it had to do with the steering. Why does the lights dim will idling and you turn the front tires, just pulling engine down? Or does that sound like a beginning of a problem?

Probably because the steering is electrically powered and when used puts a draw on the electrical system that would be most noticable at low engine revs...like at idle.

Could certainly be the electric draw of the DPS motor, but others have not reported similar issues. They may just not have turned the wheels at idle, or just failed to notice. On the other hand, it could indicate a weak battery charge or failing battery...or perhaps a subpar generator. I'd keep an eye on it and mention it to the dealer. You might also stick it on the battery charger overnight, and see if that cures it. Could also indicate a DPS unit that is drawing too much power.