Spyder on FIRE

[TravelingSpyder]

The strong smell of gas fumes on my Spyder was due to the carbon canister at the end of the fuel vent that had fuel in it. There is no way to dump this, it has to be changed. The smell while riding was overwhelming, especially on hot days.

 

[GeminiJane]

We all think our Spyders are smokin' hot...but this takes it a bit too far! So sorry GDMKGM and gramma that your 4th of July had more fireworks than you would have hoped for. Truly glad that you're all okay and hope that your grand child isn't traumatized by the event. Sounds like you all were pretty calm and handled it really well so I'm bettin' she won't let it scare her off enjoying Spyder ryding in the future. Hope the insurance/repair/replacement process goes quickly and smoothly for you. Thanks so much for sharing the information and for taking the time to post the pictures.
I'm not going to stop riding mine, either; but like some others, I'm certainly going to be more aware of the potential and have a "Plan B" when it comes time to refuel, etc. I think I'll probably also leave mine on the driveway a bit before pulling into the garage after a ride, too. Although we don't have anywhere near the number of bikes/cars in our "toys garage" as Scotty, I would hate to have a group bonfire!

 

[rleathen]

Based on my chosen profession I have been to many many vehicle fires and have investigated, or at least attempted to investigate the cause of every one of the vehicle fires I have been to. One thing that stands out to me as being out of the norm is the charing that can be seen around the gas cap. Based on the charing that is above and in front of the gas cap it almost looks to me like the gas cap may have malfunctioned allowing gas and/or fumes to escape in the direction of the burning/charing and toward the opposite side of the spyder where there is more burning and damage. While I am not saying that that was the cause it is something that does stand out to me. One thing I have learned in my 18 years in the fire service is that the area of most charing generally is the area of origin BUT NOT ALWAYS especially in vehicles with pressurized fuel lines that can spray acelerant(gasoline) to other areas of the vehicle.

Just a thought. In any event while we can attempt to determine the cause through pictures hopefully those with direct access to the spyder will be able to come up with a definitive answer.

 

[rleathen]

After taking a more thorough look at the pictures I stand corrected. It would appear that the charing over by the gas cap in all liklihood was caused from heat and fire from the right side moving up and underneath the upper frame rail and venting out over the gas cap and y shaped body panel.

 

[Firefly]

I still think the problem is something dealing with the evap canister. Poor placement and design - ???

 

[rleathen]

How abourt failure of the fuel filter that allows gas to flow onto the hot exhaust pipes ???

 

[bone crusher]

You know, it strikes me that some folks here are being awfully rough on a nice woman who not only had the terrible misfortune of losing her Spyder to a fire, and the scare of the possibility of having a grandchild injured in the incident, but was kind enough to come on here and provide some additional details in response to your questions and comments. I, for one, also appreciated her SpyderLover husband reporting the problem to us in the first place, and I certainly appreciated her additional response. Demanding confirmation in the form of photos is self-serving and insulting. Asking for them nicely would have been much better...and a lot friendlier. You catch more flies with honey......

For the record: Thank you Gdmkgm for reporting the incident on this forum so we could be aware, and discuss it. Thank you Gramma for following up, filling in some further details, and politely responding. I am so happy you and your grandchild were not injured, and I am sorry for the loss of your Spyder. I am also pleased at the way this is being handled. This was the first time a fire has been put out quickly enough to make it possible to see the area of origin, and at least investigate possible causes. In truth, the cause may never be known. Taking it to the dealer for the insurance man and tech to look over together is a real good start, though. As to pictures, I would document everything you can for your own use and records. If you wish to post them here for us to ponder, so be it, but I wouldn't blame you if you did not. Glad to hear you will be back on a Spyder as soon as you can. You are a true SpyderLover!
-Scotty

Scotty,

Please don't misunderstand me...Motz asked for the pics first and I think that's a great idea. I thought it'd be nice to see the bike as there are many sharp people here and maybe someone would see something that would indicate what the problem could be. Of course, BRP would be the best to evaluate as it's their product, but pictures can tell a lot...

 

[NancysToy]

Yesterday while I was working on the Spyder I thoughly inspected this area while the body panels were off. I found no evidence of leakage, cracks in the fuel lines or filter, and there was no odor coming from the evap canister with everything cold and at rest for several hours. What I did find was a lot of oil on the evap canister and the area surrounding it. I had recently installed NMN's Green Filter element, and had cleaned up the oil in and on the airbox...as far as I knew. With more body panels off, I had a chance to check more thoroughly, and there was also a substantial amount of oil on the front & underside of the airbox, trailng back to the evap canister. I'm not saying this would be a cause of such a fire, but it certainly is another fuel source spraying on a hot engine, and could at least add to the situation. I felt it important for people to know this. Looks like Lamont's filter and drain are the next mod.
-Scotty

 

[hondaman]

:agree:

Yesterday while I was working on the Spyder I thoughly inspected this area while the body panels were off. I found no evidence of leakage, cracks in the fuel lines or filter, and there was no odor coming from the evap canister with everything cold and at rest for several hours. What I did find was a lot of oil on the evap canister and the area surrounding it. I had recently installed NMN's Green Filter element, and had cleaned up the oil in and on the airbox...as far as I knew. With more body panels off, I had a chance to check more thoroughly, and there was also a substantial amount of oil on the front & underside of the airbox, trailng back to the evap canister. I'm not saying this would be a cause of such a fire, but it certainly is another fuel source spraying on a hot engine, and could at least add to the situation. I felt it important for people to know this. Looks like Lamont's filter and drain are the next mod.
-Scotty

 

[bone crusher]

Yesterday while I was working on the Spyder I thoughly inspected this area while the body panels were off. I found no evidence of leakage, cracks in the fuel lines or filter, and there was no odor coming from the evap canister with everything cold and at rest for several hours. What I did find was a lot of oil on the evap canister and the area surrounding it. I had recently installed NMN's Green Filter element, and had cleaned up the oil in and on the airbox...as far as I knew. With more body panels off, I had a chance to check more thoroughly, and there was also a substantial amount of oil on the front & underside of the airbox, trailng back to the evap canister. I'm not saying this would be a cause of such a fire, but it certainly is another fuel source spraying on a hot engine, and could at least add to the situation. I felt it important for people to know this. Looks like Lamont's filter and drain are the next mod.
-Scotty

Hey...one thing at a time here! :joke:

Haveta get the ride-on and get my JB installed...

Can Lamont be shipped via UPS for helping with installation of mods?

 

[Buelldog]

Same Story Different Spyder

Yesterday while I was working on the Spyder I thoughly inspected this area while the body panels were off. I found no evidence of leakage, cracks in the fuel lines or filter, and there was no odor coming from the evap canister with everything cold and at rest for several hours. What I did find was a lot of oil on the evap canister and the area surrounding it. I had recently installed NMN's Green Filter element, and had cleaned up the oil in and on the airbox...as far as I knew. With more body panels off, I had a chance to check more thoroughly, and there was also a substantial amount of oil on the front & underside of the airbox, trailng back to the evap canister. I'm not saying this would be a cause of such a fire, but it certainly is another fuel source spraying on a hot engine, and could at least add to the situation. I felt it important for people to know this. Looks like Lamont's filter and drain are the next mod.
-Scotty

Did an oil change yesterday......found the exact same conditions in the exact same area!!I had installed Ken's air filter a few months ago and had cleaned up that area and the airbox at that time......this is definetely a situation that BRP should address.....the fix is not a costly one and IMO the burden should not be completely on the owner.Anyway looks like "The Trap" is my next project as well Scotty:agree:.

 

[BajaRon]

I realize that everyone is speculating here. And that is not necessarily a bad thing as long as we keep this in mind.

I have been watching this thread and have resisted posting for the very reason stated above. But for my 2 cents, I think Nancy's Toy has swerved into the answer.

Every vehicle with an evap canister or vented fuel cap will give you a gas smell from time to time. Especially when it is located right under you nose as on the Spyder. This always gets people upset but is not necessarily an issue at all.

When Lamont and I first started tearing into our Spyders we always found a good amount of oil in the air box. It pools and then eventually starts dripping on some VERY HOT parts. This is exactly the reason Lamont developed the crankcase vent mod. It works very well.

Oil tends to splatter and spread and it does not go away quickly. Once ignited, an oil fire is very hot and tenacious. It would tend to spread quickly and could easily compromise other volatile systems like fuel lines and evap canister.

This is where I'm putting my money. I really hope a thorough investigation will give all of us the right answer.

For those of you concerned about this I highly recommend some kind of crank vent mod such as the one Lamont uses. Even if this is not the problem it really can't hurt. It's never good to have oil floating around where it can drip onto hot parts.

 

[zeebill]

Honestly didn't read this whole 6 page post but I have noted with interest something that keeps the bike cooler when stopping for fuel which is often unfortunately. I leave the ingition turned on and when it sits there and gets hotter the fan turns on and it cools things down a bit for the restart and getting on the road again. This also dissapates any fumes I would think so when I get home from a ride and park in the drive I now leave the key turned on for awhile and then turn it off and retrieve after awhile. I drove racecars (open wheel formula and others) for many years and frankly the one fear I always had was fire. Getting a bit personal but I always wore regular underware, long john nomex waffle weave underware, and a batted 3 layer waffle stitched nomex driving suit. A three layer pair of driving gloves, a good snell rated helmet (required by racing org.) and a triple layer hood over my head and under the helmet of course. When someone says they freak out over fire I can really associate with that comment as I was only concerned with that as a safety aspect during about 20 to 30 years of it. Nothing else really put me back but the fire aspect for all those years and frankly as I'm typing this I still get a chill down my spine thinking of it. I have been out of a car since 1991 at the Glen and I am still concerned about fire of any sort. Hope all this dies down a bit! Pardon the unintensional pun! Best to All! Bill

 

[Firefly]

With the Evoluzione Race Airflow system the oil dripping is 100% gone as the crankcase vent hose shoots any fluids directly into the throttle bodies (like BRP had hope theirs would do).

I think this is a good direction to look, but I'm also wondering if the evap canister gets actual gas into it (from over-filling the gas tank) - can the gas drip out of it???

Now with 3 confirmed Spyder fires (and 1 more that sounds very legit) I think this needs to be looked into seriously.

 

[BajaRon]

With the Evoluzione Race Airflow system the oil dripping is 100% gone as the crankcase vent hose shoots any fluids directly into the throttle bodies (like BRP had hope theirs would do).

I think this is a good direction to look, but I'm also wondering if the evap canister gets actual gas into it (from over-filling the gas tank) - can the gas drip out of it???

Now with 3 confirmed Spyder fires (and 1 more that sounds very legit) I think this needs to be looked into seriously.

I must have missed this detail. If the stock airbox, crankcase vent was eliminated then I stand corrected on this one.

 

[Saluda]

Sorry to heat about this issue, my dealer had already heard. Once again glad people were OK. I do prefer hearing about incidents such as these (in contrast to not knowing) and will be a bit more cautious. Other than that nothing will change for me.

 

[Firefly]

I must have missed this detail. If the stock airbox, crankcase vent was eliminated then I stand corrected on this one.

Yup - all of the original airbox stuff gets yanked with the Race Airflow System. The new crankcase vent attaches to an aluminum manifold that bolts to the throttle-body intake. The oiled filter then mounts ontop of the manifold. The blow-by oil goes directly into the intake. No runs, no drips and hopefully no FIRES.

 

[DynamoBT]

Buelldog said it well when he said, "The responsibility should not be on the owner".

It's all well and good to come up with modifications that will eliminate the oil collecting. What about those of us who are not mechanically inclined? For us, the only solution is BRP recognizing the problem and coming up with a fix that dealers will make.

At some point there is a possibility that I'll decide that the Spyder seems to require more owner knowhow than I can manage. It's bad enough that I have to pay my dealer to go over the Spyder with me and teach me how to do things like change the suspension settings. This forum is great but it also exposes me to the perspectives that "you gotta have the sway bar to make the Spyder safe, or you gotta have more lights because the Spyder isn't visible enough as is". Etc. etc. It isn't even a matter of not having the money to spend on this stuff. It comes down to mechanical know how.

I didn't have to learn to wrench a car in order to drive one. You shouldn't have to be a motorcycle mechanic in order to own and ryde the Spyder. To be honest, I'm getting more and more discouraged about what it seems to take to own a Spyder. It's not right.

 

[Lamonster]

Yup - all of the original airbox stuff gets yanked with the Race Airflow System. The new crankcase vent attaches to an aluminum manifold that bolts to the throttle-body intake. The oiled filter then mounts ontop of the manifold. The blow-by oil goes directly into the intake. No runs, no drips and hopefully no FIRES.

I'm pretty sure the fires we are talking about here had the stock air box.

 

[Firefly]

Buelldog said it well when he said, "The responsibility should not be on the owner".

It's all well and good to come up with modifications that will eliminate the oil collecting. What about those of us who are not mechanically inclined? For us, the only solution is BRP recognizing the problem and coming up with a fix that dealers will make.

At some point there is a possibility that I'll decide that the Spyder seems to require more owner knowhow than I can manage. It's bad enough that I have to pay my dealer to go over the Spyder with me and teach me how to do things like change the suspension settings. This forum is great but it also exposes me to the perspectives that "you gotta have the sway bar to make the Spyder safe, or you gotta have more lights because the Spyder isn't visible enough as is". Etc. etc. It isn't even a matter of not having the money to spend on this stuff. It comes down to mechanical know how.

I didn't have to learn to wrench a car in order to drive one. You shouldn't have to be a motorcycle mechanic in order to own and ryde the Spyder. To be honest, I'm getting more and more discouraged about what it seems to take to own a Spyder. It's not right.

Have you ever owned a motorcycle before? The Spyder is pretty low maintenance compared to many others. If your dealer is charging for silly things like a simple shock adjustment, I would find a new dealer.

You don't need to do anything extra to the Spyder - it's a great bike when stock - and very safe in my opinion. For those of us that like to mod and add things like the sway bar (so we can ride harder), that is a personal choice - a 'want' --- not a 'need'.