Spyder....A Poor Performer?

[Zerocool]

OK, I decided I would do the calculations, and see how this all shook out. The are lots of drag strip calculators on the Internet, formulas, and even my old Isky calculator wheel (slide rule). Very disappointing, to say the least. If the few performance numbers we have been seeing are correct, the Spyder only gets about 70 hp to the rear wheel. If they are telling the truth about flywheel horsepower, there is more than a 30% drivetrain loss! The normally accepted standard is 17%. If this standard number is correct for the Spyder, then it actually makes only about 85 hp at the flywheel. I used 950 lbs wet, with rider, 98 mph, and 13.89 secs for the calculations. A 106 hp vehicle should theoretically be capable of as much as mid to high 12s, at around 105-109 mph.

Why the discrepancy? Well, as far as ET goes, the VSS and traction problems may enter into the equation, as we have discussed. When I was racing, we always felt mph was a more reliable indication of horsepower for any one vehicle. If it is, the Spyder has substantial drivetrain losses. The excessive tightness of the factory drive belt spec could be a big contributor. So could dragging brakes, which would also account for the noise some of us hear when pushing the Spyder. Beyond that, I am clueless. This thing needs to go on a dyno to verify these numbers. Magic better hurry with his black box. LOL Anyway, the initial assesment was correct, the numbers are disappointing for sure, and now they are verified, in a way.
-Scotty

You've got me beat on the analysis part, so I'm not challenging you

The one note that sticks in my mind regarding the 106 hp is where it states @8600 RPM (if I recall correctly). This leads me to believe that if you ain't hunkering down on your :spyder: then you ain't gonna reach 106 hp, no?

 

[steven888]

conversation over

This conversation is over. Lets move on.

 

[Putt-Putt]

OK, I decided I would do the calculations, and see how this all shook out. The are lots of drag strip calculators on the Internet, formulas, and even my old Isky calculator wheel (slide rule). Very disappointing, to say the least. If the few performance numbers we have been seeing are correct, the Spyder only gets about 70 hp to the rear wheel. If they are telling the truth about flywheel horsepower, there is more than a 30% drivetrain loss! The normally accepted standard is 17%. If this standard number is correct for the Spyder, then it actually makes only about 85 hp at the flywheel. I used 950 lbs wet, with rider, 98 mph, and 13.89 secs for the calculations. A 106 hp vehicle should theoretically be capable of as much as mid to high 12s, at around 105-109 mph.

Why the discrepancy? Well, as far as ET goes, the VSS and traction problems may enter into the equation, as we have discussed. When I was racing, we always felt mph was a more reliable indication of horsepower for any one vehicle. If it is, the Spyder has substantial drivetrain losses. The excessive tightness of the factory drive belt spec could be a big contributor. So could dragging brakes, which would also account for the noise some of us hear when pushing the Spyder. Beyond that, I am clueless. This thing needs to go on a dyno to verify these numbers. Magic better hurry with his black box. LOL Anyway, the initial assesment was correct, the numbers are disappointing for sure, and now they are verified, in a way.
-Scotty

From my old drag racing days I would have to say that you are pretty darn correct. Certainly on the right track anyway.:agree:

 

[NancysToy]

Please don't get me wrong, I am not complaining. The Spyder is not a dog. It just has me curious as to the reason why it would not perform as well as predicted. Blame it on the engineer in me...or the old drag racer. As far as performance goes, the Spyder certainly satisfies me, and is more than adequate for my wife's first motorcycle. Let's not be defensive here, I love the vehicle! I'm not blasting it.

Whenever a machine shows twice the expected loss in horsepower through the drivetrain, it is odd. If there is a lurking mechanical cause, that could cause us all later grief, it should be explored. If possible, it should be explained, or cured. I am merely expressing my thoughts and questions. Repectfully allow me to do so. I would love to hear the thoughts of others in this regard, and certainly look forward to seeing reliable dyno numbers someday.
-Scotty

 

[Way2Fast]

This conversation is over. Lets move on.

It isn't over until the fat lady sings.....if you're not interested in reading anymore on this topic, don't click on it. Easy enough to do ?:hun:

Richard

 

[SpyderMark]

Whenever a machine shows twice the expected loss in horsepower through the drivetrain, it is odd.

Scotty,

The only performance numbers in a review I've seen posted so far came from MSN -- an organization not noted (as far as I know) for motorcycle testing. I posted previously on the inherent difficulties of getting top acceleration performance from a motorcycle-type vehicle such as the Spyder. I believe the performance deficit you note could easily be explained by poor technique.

Have you seen performance numbers from a reputable source?

Regards,

Mark

 

[NancysToy]

The only performance numbers in a review I've seen posted so far came from MSN -- an organization not noted (as far as I know) for motorcycle testing. I posted previously on the inherent difficulties of getting top acceleration performance from a motorcycle-type vehicle such as the Spyder. I believe the performance deficit you note could easily be explained by poor technique.

Have you seen performance numbers from a reputable source?

I have seen about four posts with ETs, and three with mph. I think some were on SpyderTalk a long while back. The MSN post is the only "official" test I have come across. ETs differ significantly, with MSNs being the worst. Easy explained by inexperienced riders on a difficult machine to launch. MSN did discuss this. The mph for the posts were all in about the same, slightly under 100, range. That one is not as dependent on the technique, and is the hardest to reconcile. As I said, normally a good indicator of horsepower at the rear wheel(s) using the formula.

horsepower = weight x (velocity/234)³

Translates to about 70-75 hp at the rear wheel. That's only 2/3 of 106 hp at the flywheel. Lots of loss, compared to a typical 17% (15-20%). I'd love to see some more performance figures, especially controlled testing.
-Scotty

 

[Putt-Putt]

Please don't get me wrong, I am not complaining. The Spyder is not a dog. It just has me curious as to the reason why it would not perform as well as predicted. Blame it on the engineer in me...or the old drag racer. As far as performance goes, the Spyder certainly satisfies me, and is more than adequate for my wife's first motorcycle. Let's not be defensive here, I love the vehicle! I'm not blasting it.

Whenever a machine shows twice the expected loss in horsepower through the drivetrain, it is odd. If there is a lurking mechanical cause, that could cause us all later grief, it should be explored. If possible, it should be explained, or cured. I am merely expressing my thoughts and questions. Repectfully allow me to do so. I would love to hear the thoughts of others in this regard, and certainly look forward to seeing reliable dyno numbers someday.
-Scotty

:agree:

 

[bone crusher]

who cares about numbers...

I didn't buy my Spyder to compare numbers with other bikes...if I wanted the fastest bike on the road, I would've bought it...

Now for other things...being my mom was an English teacher, it's 'article', not 'artical'...sorry...had to correct...I know it's a biker board, but you don't want kids reading this stuff...

To a great weekend!

 

[ingramwc]

Tests on the Spyder

Look at motorcycle-usa.com, they did a first ride test and Motorweek, on Speed Channel tested the Spyder. The Motorweek video is available on SPYDERRYDER in the FYI section.:spyder: