Shifting from reverse to neutral - usually goes straight to first! Why?!

[louisbasle]

2020 rtl. Manual says to shift from reverse ro neutral to just hit paddle one short time. Mine will now shift without my foot on brake. When it does shift it goes into 1st gear.
Is the manual wrong?

 

[EdMat]

999 times out of 1,000 its going into 1st, not neutral. At least that's been my experience.

 

[Plarimer]

My experience is the same as a Ed’s.

 

[JayBros]

Your and my manuals say exactly the same thing; however, if I am in reverse with no foot on the brake pedal it doesn't matter how light or heavy a touch, pushing or pulling the gear shift lever, absolutely nothing happens. Light touch or heavy touch, nothing will get it out of reverse without a foot on the brake. Then, even with a light press, the lightest my old thumb will do, when the brake pedal is pressed the transmission shifts past neutral into first. I can see it shift past "N" into first in the gear selector window but then I have to lightly tap the downshift lever to shift into neutral. I've always thought the foot on the brake requirement to get the transmission either out of reverse or into first from neutral was a wise safety interlock. Perhaps they changed the mechanism for MY 20.

 

[d.o.spyder-rts]

It's the same on my 2016 RTS. Dale

 

[milryder]

When I pull into my garage and apply the parking brake, red light on, and tap the down shifter it goes into into neutral. This is true if I back in or drive in.

 

[Little Blue]

Reverse To Neutral/First Gear

Well as others have Posted. I need my foot on the brake for the transmission to go from Reverse to Neutral. Most of the Time this change is: Reverse to First Gear. I have 2016 RTL.

NOT SURE if your Spyder is Different. ........:thumbup:....:thumbup:

 

[bluewoo]

Owners manual states briefly to go to neutral from first or reverse. It does work this way on mine.

This shifts sequentially from one gear
to the next. Release the selector after
shifting.
– To shift through multiple gears, use
the selector multiple times.
– To shift into neutral from first gear
or reverse, briefly press or pull the
gear selector. A longer activation
will shift over neutral.
– To shift out of reverse into 1st gear,
press the brake pedal and shift up.
– To shift from neutral to 1st gear,
press the brake pedal and shift up.
When the gearshift selector is released, the mechanism resets for the
next shift up or down

 

[MONK]

My 2021 RT does the same as the OP (and apparently just about everyone else). When I shift from reverse, it goes into 1st. Doesn't matter how light I touch the shifter paddle. I don't know what's SUPPOSED to happpen but it appears this is what DOES happen. Kind of annoying but you get used to it fairly quickly.

 

[BajaRon]

We have, as nearly all motorcycles do, a constant mesh transmission. To keep from 'Missing' a shift. The transmission is designed to find a gear with every shift, up or down. It takes a very, very sensitive foot to get a shift from Reverse to Neutral. Probably not worth the effort. Most of the time you're backing out of a parking space and intend to go forward anyway. To miss that shift in traffic, ending up in neutral instead of the expected 1st gear, could be detrimental to your health. I'll take the default 1st gear destination and shift from there to neutral if that's what I really want.

In short, I wouldn't sweat it,. Just the nature of the beast.

 

[milryder]

If I read correctly before on this forum the clunk you get with first or reverse shift is due to square cut gears. If true what is the advantage or disadvantage?

 

[Peter Aawen]

If I read correctly before on this forum the clunk you get with first or reverse shift is due to square cut gears. If true what is the advantage or disadvantage?

Possibly... (just a little. ) but that clunk when first shifting from neutral into first or reverse is much more related to the nature of the 'constant mesh transmission' that BajaRon mentioned above & the clutch that's swimming around in there with all the gears! It's basically because ALL the gears in the gearbox are turning whenever the engine is running, but the output gear on the output shaft ISN'T unless you've selected a gear, which usually means first or reverse - so when you engage a spinning gear with the stationary gear, there's going to be some degree of a clunk, simply because the stationary gear has to match speeds with the spinning gear and due to the laws of physics, that can't happen without some reaction! :shocked:

To some degree, that 'clunk' is there on pretty much every gearbox/clutch/output shaft relationship known to mankind, albeit usually damped somewhat - it's just that constant mesh motorcycle gearboxes are usually relatively lightweight & compact of necessity, so there's not much scope at all for adding the extra weight & complexity that dampening the clunk would entail. So it's an inherent part of the machine, and beyond the lightweight performance delivery advantages of a motorcycle over most other vehicles with gearboxes & clutches, there is no real disadvantage except that some people don't 'like' it....

It's the nature of the beast, it's not wearing or damaging anything, it adds to & probably even enhances the performance and the 'feel' of ryding a unique machine; so enjoy it, & don't fret over it! hyea:

Ryde More, Worry Less! :yes:

 

[BajaRon]

If I read correctly before on this forum the clunk you get with first or reverse shift is due to square cut gears. If true what is the advantage or disadvantage?

A very good question and the answer is simple. Straight cut gears are lighter, take up less room, less expensive to make, and are more efficient at energy transfer (less friction) than helical gears. All very important when building a powerplant for a motorcycle. Straight cut gears themselves are not able to carry as much torque. But the overall system, (bearings, shafts, case, etc.) is much stronger. Typically, motorcycle engines are not high torque machines so this is less of a concern than in a heavier car or truck transmission. The major downside is noise (whine) and abrupt engagement. Helical gears engage much more smoothly and are much quieter.


Here is a great article on this subject.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-straight-cut-gears/

 

[old Timer]

What Peter just posted is 100% on the money.

 

[bluewoo]

Plus with the cold higher idle helps them bang even more. After warm up its less noticeable.

 

[Motogordo]

July 26, 2021

I have the 2021 Sea to Sky and if you pull into the garage and apply the power brake it will remain in first gear unless you downshift to Neutral.