Seeking wisdom from the list about how best to lift the front with a jack?

[shakin_jake]

When I installed 175/55R15 Kumho Solus on my '21 RT Limited, they rubbed the fenders. Maybe your new Vred's have a different profile and won't rub. It's hard to tell without seeing them inflated, but they look to be more rounded at the edge vs mine. The Kumho is very flat across, and they definitely rubbed. Nothing a few washers couldn't correct.

Good luck!

~~~from memory, one of the reasons I chose the Quatracs, they’ve been a popular tire, especially amongst late model Spyderisti, w/little to no quirks. I don’t recall anyone having to shim, but if I do, I’ll come back here and mention so


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a have a happy childhood

 

[Gwolf]

~~~forgive me but, I’m having a hard time envisioning what you are saying. Any chance you have a pic of this you could post? Thanking you in advance!


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood

I don't have a picture, but I can sketch a quick picture of anything. A power drill with a regular 3/8 bit should poke a hole right through a Kenda real easy. If you can pull the 2 beads together and secure them with Zipties, it might give you the room you need to get it over the rim. I used to Ziptie all the regular motorcycle tires togther, but without drilling any holes. I would just put the Zipties all the way around the tire and pull them down tight. That would let the beads drop into the lowest section of the wheel on the opposite side of the tire from the side you are trying to spoon off the rim. Maybe it you can pull the beads together on the Kendas, it will help get them off.

If that won't get them off, just about any independent tire shop has a machine that will do it. The local independent tire store in my area charges about $10 per wheel to swap tires, if you have the wheel off and take it to them, along with the new tire you are putting on. They don't handle the tires to fit a Spyder, but their tire mounting machine will work on the Spyder wheels. They also have one of the old style bubble balance machines in a back room that will balance the Spyder wheels. Few bucks more and they will mount and balace them.

 

[shakin_jake]

Jake, Used a 5 gallon bucket and rested the wheel assembly on the bucket. Quick squirt of WD around the old tires bead. Push the tire down to the drop center, and my short moto tire irons easily lifted the tires beads over the rim flanges.

~~~Okay PMK, I’ll see your 5 gallon bucket and raise you a 32 gallon steel trash can

Very odd you may need to resort to cutting off a Kenda tire. Every one I have replaced, by manually changing, has been a soft, low strength tire casing that easily removed from the rim.

All the best with it, and be careful as you cut the tire off.

~~~as evidenced by the pic above, I didn’t take a rip saw to the OEM Kenda tire. With a bit of tire lube and some patience I was able to remove the wheel by hand and the use of one tire lever




Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood

 

[shakin_jake]

I don't have a picture, but I can sketch a quick picture of anything. A power drill with a regular 3/8 bit should poke a hole right through a Kenda real easy. If you can pull the 2 beads together and secure them with Zipties, it might give you the room you need to get it over the rim. I used to Ziptie all the regular motorcycle tires togther, but without drilling any holes. I would just put the Zipties all the way around the tire and pull them down tight. That would let the beads drop into the lowest section of the wheel on the opposite side of the tire from the side you are trying to spoon off the rim. Maybe it you can pull the beads together on the Kendas, it will help get them off.

If that won't get them off, just about any independent tire shop has a machine that will do it. The local independent tire store in my area charges about $10 per wheel to swap tires, if you have the wheel off and take it to them, along with the new tire you are putting on. They don't handle the tires to fit a Spyder, but their tire mounting machine will work on the Spyder wheels. They also have one of the old style bubble balance machines in a back room that will balance the Spyder wheels. Few bucks more and they will mount and balace them.

~~~now I understand what you were saying. I got the wheel off using tire levers. I worked on the outboard side of the wheel where there is a very small well for the opposing beads to lie in creating enough slack so I was able to finish the job by hand



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood

 

[Gwolf]

There is some plastic pieces you can find on the web for cheap, called "Rim Savers". They will slip over the edge of the rim where you are using the tire spoon to keep you from skinning all the paint off the edge of the rim. You need a couple of them, because sometimes they aee stuck under the bead when you want to move on around the wheel.

 

[shakin_jake]

There is some plastic pieces you can find on the web for cheap, called "Rim Savers". They will slip over the edge of the rim where you are using the tire spoon to keep you from skinning all the paint off the edge of the rim. You need a couple of them, because sometimes they aee stuck under the bead when you want to move on around the wheel.

~~~I bought my first set of 3 plastic rim protectors with the nylon cord loops from Honda in 1979 when I purchased a new CX-500 V- Twin from them the same year as I didn’t want to mar the painted 5spoke wheels. I’ve added to that set over the years & the last set of 3 I purchased with the cords were of a blue color. I picked up a set of 2 rim protectors from Amazon about a month ago but they won’t work on our Spyder rims. I’ll keep them just the same as I’ll likely use them on some other rims down the road


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood

 

[PMK]

~~~I bought my first set of 3 plastic rim protectors with the nylon cord loops from Honda in 1979 when I purchased a new CX-500 V- Twin from them the same year as I didn’t want to mar the painted 5spoke wheels. I’ve added to that set over the years & the last set of 3 I purchased with the cords were of a blue color. I picked up a set of 2 rim protectors from Amazon about a month ago but they won’t work on our Spyder rims. I’ll keep them just the same as I’ll likely use them on some other rims down the road


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood

I have the rim protectors. Have used the blue colored Motion Pro ones, and the white ones I think I got from Cycle Gear.

As for using the rim protectors, they can be a pain, often slipping or falling off as the tire is worked.

Will say though, using the 5 gallon bucket, I set the wheel assembly onto the bucket. As the tire is dismounted, it drops to the floor while the rim stays perched atop the bucket. I just prefer this technique vs lifting the rim upward out of the tire.

The bead breaker is a must have to do the task with minimal effort.

As for balancing, I accomplish electronic dynamically balancing. The fronts easily fit my Snap On automotive balancer. I use the “fine” setting which is within 1/10 ounce. That alone, when done correctly is a very smooth ride. A few years ago, I purchased a used set of Centramatics for the front from someone here, or maybe EBay.

Correctly dynamic balanced tires with the Centramatics also is one of those changes you just forget you did it. So smooth and combined is better than balancing alone.

 

[PMK]

There is some plastic pieces you can find on the web for cheap, called "Rim Savers". They will slip over the edge of the rim where you are using the tire spoon to keep you from skinning all the paint off the edge of the rim. You need a couple of them, because sometimes they aee stuck under the bead when you want to move on around the wheel.

The red colored bead stopper in the photo is nice if you change your own tires. Less contending with two tire irons. While they often suggest to dismount a typical motorcycle rear tire away from the sprocket side to lessen injuries of hitting your hand on the sprocket, I prefer using the sprocket if possible, to hold the first tire iron. Doing this keeps the tires bead above and outside of the rim flange.

Also, whenever possible, I dismount one side of the tire. Then flip it all over and dismount to opposite side. This places the rim into the tires center. From there, the rim is pushed further into the tires center, slightly rocked and then simply pulled out of the tire.

As you can read, dismounting by dropping the rim into the tires center means you no longer have a drive sprocket to secure a tire iron. Therefore since it is not always a Spyder tire change, you pick the best method first. For most it is far easier and cost effective to pay and have the tire change and balancing done by a tire shop.

As for your Spyder dealer doing the balancing correctly, they may, but I have fixed vibration issues that dealers gave up on and refused to correct. Try as they might, several times, they just are not good at balancing essentially a small car wheel, on a motorcycle tire balancer. Even our oem Kendas were shakers. Checked the oem balance and it was wrong by over one ounce. Corrected both fronts by dynamically balancing correctly, and this was before I installed those Centramatics, but those Kendas ran smooth. Not as nice and smooth as the Federal Formozas, but plenty good enough.

 

[shakin_jake]

From what website did you buy the Vredestein tires?

Also, keep in mind the 175 width tires are 10mm (about 3/8") wider than stock Kenda. They will probably rub the inside of your fenders. Just sandwich two 5/16" washers in between the steering knuckle and and each of the four fender mounting braces. It's easier to do while you have the tire off for change out. Make sure to roll over the new, wider tires by hand to verify they don't rub.

~~~Mea Culpa! You were right. I can’t even get the wheel/tire onto the mounting studs let alone to see if they rub or not. And to add insult to injury or vice versa, I don’t have enough washers on hand to shim one of the fenders let alone both. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda<LOL>


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Ps: My thread seeking to solve this problem is here:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...ront-Fender-Shimming-2020-amp-later-Spyder-RT

 

[shakin_jake]

When I installed 175/55R15 Kumho Solus on my '21 RT Limited, they rubbed the fenders. Maybe your new Vred's have a different profile and won't rub. It's hard to tell without seeing them inflated, but they look to be more rounded at the edge vs mine. The Kumho is very flat across, and they definitely rubbed. Nothing a few washers couldn't correct.

Good luck!

~~~Mea Culpa! You were right. I can’t even get the wheel/tire onto the mounting studs let alone to see if they rub or not. And to add insult to injury or vice versa, I don’t have enough washers on hand to shim one of the fenders let alone both. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda<LOL>


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

~~~~well, as it turns out…I was able to fit that new tire on the OEM wheel w/o shimming the fender. Peter educated me in another thread, how to get it all to fit. That said, I was careful to check to see if there was any clearance issues, once the wheel was bolted up, and there wasn’t any so, it’s looks like I dodged a bullet this time. Thanks for your help none the less!


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Where I’m slightly stumped (NOW)… I have a butt load of miscellaneous sockets. I’m trying to find the best fit for the lug nuts. 1st place so far goes to a 6 point 13/16 ths.

13/16ths is 20.64 mm.

 

[Isopedella]

1st place so far goes to a 6 point 13/16 ths. What are others using to R&R the lug nuts?!?

+ 1 on the 6 point 13/16 socket for the wheel nuts. :thumbup:

I too went through all my stuff, mostly metric. Nope. I packed another 6 point and removed a nut. Then took the nut down and tried the complete range of 6 pointers at a local Engineering Supply shop. The 6 point 13/16 is the one I paid for and bought home.

I crack the nuts before I lift.

 

[shakin_jake]

As for balancing, I accomplish electronic dynamically balancing. The fronts easily fit my Snap On automotive balancer. I use the “fine” setting which is within 1/10 ounce. That alone, when done correctly is a very smooth ride. A few years ago, I purchased a used set of Centramatics for the front from someone here, or maybe EBay.

Correctly dynamic balanced tires with the Centramatics also is one of those changes you just forget you did it. So smooth and combined is better than balancing alone.

~~~~I’m a bit late getting back to this thread. Duty calls doncha know. Nice that you have access to a Snap On automotive balancer. I used my Marc Parnes balance system which is not a high speed balancer such as your Snap On equipment. That said, I found that both tires and rims needed very little in the way of stick on tire weights. One wheel only needed 5 grams (1 tape-a-weight) and the other took 10 grams or 2 tape-a-weights. Needless to say (but I’m Jake like that) each tape-a-weight segment when weighed on a gram scale comes out to 5 grams.

On to the test ride -

I call it a test ride since this is the very first time mounting and balancing Spyder wheels & tires for me, and I’ll also echo what you said about for most Spyder owners, it’s easier to take both front wheels to a tire dealer and let them R&R the tires and handle the balancing. If I didn’t say it before I’ll say it right now. These were the hardest motorcycle rims I’ve ever handled when it comes to removing and replacing tires. I actually enjoy doing this type of work using hand tools, but not on the Spyder wheels. The lack of the typical deep V section in the center of the rim is what made this a joyless job for me. I read where you said you used short moto tire irons and didn't find it an arduous task. All I can say is, you’re a better man than me Gunga Din.

Moving along, the first ride on the new rubber was conducted well into the night and it was raining to boot. Couldn’t ask for a better test bed IMO as I was able to observe how well these tires handled wet traction and they were impressive. Balancing felt spot on rolling southbound on Highway 441 at the posted speed limit of 65 MPH. I basically used County roads, 318 from my driveway to 441 South then West on County Road 326 until I got on the interstate, I-75 north back to County Road 318 then home. What I found traveling in excess of the posted speed limit on I-75 (70 MPH), once I hit 80 MPH I noticed a bit of imbalance in the front. The balance seemed off rolling out at 80 + MPH yet when I slowed down to 70 MPH, all was well again. Post ride pontifications, I felt that a true high-speed balance was in order yet the next time I had the Spyder out, and had just to run some errands, using I-75 coming back from Ocala (I used 441 South to get into town), running upwards of 90 MPH in short blasts when and where permissible, and the pronounced imbalance was gone. To say I was a bit astonished, true that! A third high speed run on another different day the results were the same, the detectable imbalance was missing. I have to conclude that what transpired was a bit of scrubbing of the tires during the initial ride had removed what, some type of Joo-Joo? I’m guessing the tires scrubbed themselves in. Whatever happened, I’m thoroughly enamored with Vredestein Quatrac tires (175/55/15) that are now on the front of my 2021 Can Am Spyder RT Limited. Compared to the OEM Kendas riding the roads I ride in North Central Fla., I honestly can’t say the Vredesteins are marginally better tires because, in my experience, I’ve never found the OEM Kenda tires lacking, yet I want to emphasize that the majority of roads I travel are string straight. That said I have a layout of local roads I can use that will put stress on any tire, a combination of local roads with a downhill left turn that if you try to take the corner going faster than 15 MPH you’ll either low side, high side or worse, on two wheels. I can take that same corner a little faster on both the Spyder and the Ryker Rally I had, but what I want to stress is that I never encountered a situation with the OEM Kendas that those tires couldn’t handle with aplomb.

All that said I have to believe others here that have less than complimentary results when pushing their F3’s and RT’s through the Dragon and similar roads on OEM Kenda tires. I’m sure I’d have similar experiences, yet the roads I ride, the OEM Kendas have been more than adequate. Now that I have a pair of a Vredsteins on the front of my Spyder I have an idea they will impress the hell out of me. So far so good. No regrets switching over to an automotive tire on Cretin Girl. Others may have better and different ideas.


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
We always like a bit of volume- Phil Campbell Motörhead

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Happy to hear you like those Vredestein's :clap: ..... as to the " motorcycle RIMS " .... All Spyders have " J " type rims / wheels which are AUTOMOTIVE rims / wheels .... Rims for TWO wheel Mtc's have a different classification per Gov"t. regs .... If you get a chance ( or have to ) ride in the wet let us know what you think ..... just a note - I know tires and have discovered & recommended the best and most popular auto tires used by members here .... and over the course of a decade+, I have said upgrade to Auto tires .... AFTER .... you wear-out the Crapenda's .... unless they are Defective ( which is not un-common ) and unsafe .....Mike :thumbup:

 

[shakin_jake]

Happy to hear you like those Vredestein's :clap: ...If you get a chance ( or have to ) ride in the wet let us know what you think .....

~~~Mike, my first ride on the Vredsteins were/was in the wet. It was raining at the time. Not a gully washer but very wet none the less. Wet traction was excellent. Same with braking & induced quick right to left and vice versa steering inputs at 65 MPH. Total confidence in these Vredestein tires!

I have said upgrade to Auto tires .... AFTER .... you wear-out the Crapenda's .... unless they are Defective ( which is not un-common ) and unsafe .....Mike :thumbup:

~~~I just don’t have the hatred you and some others have shared with Kenda tires. I get it, you don’t like them and or had bad experience with them. That’s happened with other major brands of tires through the years. Anyone remember the Firestone fiasco that owners of a certain Ford SUV had with their OEM firestone tires? I don’t recall how many people lost their lives running OEM Firestones on their Ford SUV (I can’t recall which model of Ford SUV off hand). Hold on, I just looked this up-

<snip>
Unusually high failure rates of P235/75R15 ATX, ATX II, and Wilderness AT tires installed on the first–generation Ford Explorer and similar vehicles caused crashes that killed 238 people and injured around 500 others in the United States alone; more died in other countries.
<end snip>

~~~I guess my point is this Mike, most every tire manufacturer has some problems, Kenda has been no different in having problems with the tires they sold to Can Am. That said, they have made a lot of good Kenda tires for our Spyders too. I can’t and won’t complain about Kenda tires as my experience with them have been stellar. Of course, others may have better and different ideas


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

~~~Mike, my first ride on the Vredsteins were/was in the wet. It was raining at the time. Not a gully washer but very wet none the less. Wet traction was excellent. Same with braking & induced quick right to left and vice versa steering inputs at 65 MPH. Total confidence in these Vredestein tires!






~~~I just don’t have the hatred you and some others have shared with Kenda tires. I get it, you don’t like them and or had bad experience with them. That’s happened with other major brands of tires through the years. Anyone remember the Firestone fiasco that owners of a certain Ford SUV had with their OEM firestone tires? I don’t recall how many people lost their lives running OEM Firestones on their Ford SUV (I can’t recall which model of Ford SUV off hand). Hold on, I just looked this up-

<snip>
Unusually high failure rates of P235/75R15 ATX, ATX II, and Wilderness AT tires installed on the first–generation Ford Explorer and similar vehicles caused crashes that killed 238 people and injured around 500 others in the United States alone; more died in other countries.
<end snip>

~~~I guess my point is this Mike, most every tire manufacturer has some problems, Kenda has been no different in having problems with the tires they sold to Can Am. That said, they have made a lot of good Kenda tires for our Spyders too. I can’t and won’t complain about Kenda tires as my experience with them have been stellar. Of course, others may have better and different ideas


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while

.... I just don't have the HATRED you and some others have shared with Kenda tires .......

- I don't know where you got this .... I HAVE NEVER used that word in any reference to KENDA tires ... The construction of the Kenda tires for Spyders is barely sufficient for their weight; plus they have the highest DEFECTIVE TIRE rates of any tire currently being made that I know of.... I have been sharing my knowledge (from actual schooling) about tires here for over a decade, and so far, my track record for picking Auto tires for Spyders is un-matched ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Mikey]

:bowdown: that's right!!!

 

[Isopedella]

just a note - I know tires and have discovered & recommended the best and most popular auto tires used by members here .... and over the course of a decade+, I have said upgrade to Auto tires .. AFTER .... you wear-out the Crapenda's .... unless they are Defective ( which is not un-common ) and unsafe .....Mike :thumbup:

After ya wear them out? Yeah Nah, not for me. I biffed these with plenty of tread left. Not worth it.

The performance was abysmal compared to the replacements. Perhaps if you have no corners near ya but here its all corners. I reckon if your looking for better cornering and handling and it dosnt break the bank its a no-brainer.

First ride I had a smile on my face. Pressures set with Peter A's advice. Yup, worth every penny. :thumbup:

Then came that sway bar and links, even better.

I reckon the icing on the cake for me was the PedalBox to wake up the nanny inspired slumbering 1330 at lower revs.
No more downshifting 2-3 cogs from a cruise speed to get some power to complete a manoeuvre.

These are the tyres I removed. I offered them free to anybody who wants them locally.
Pick em up or I can drop them off if passing by. Not surprisingly there were no takers.