Ryker vs F3 weight to power ratio rational

[redrum]

The Ryker 900 engine is pretty much the same engine as the one used in their snowmobiles. The snowmobile engine put out 88 hp https://www.rotax.com/en/products/rotax-powertrains/details/rotax-900-ace-snow.html while the Ryker's outputs 77hp (officially*) https://www.rotax.com/en/products/rotax-powertrains/details/rotax-900-ace-ryker.html

I was wondering for a long time why the 'road flavour' of this engine had 11hp less than the 'snow flavour.' I thought it might have something to do with the engine producing too much heat and it being easier too cool in winter thus allowing for higher 'tuning'. But upon more reflection, I think it all has to do with marketing strategies.

My non-scientific research tends to show that people compare the F3 to the Ryker 900 when shopping. Maybe BRP did too and feared loosing sales of the more profitable F3 to the Ryker 900.

Lets look at the numbers:

Ryker 900
616lbs dry
77hp
8lbs per hp

Spyder F3
899lbs dry
105hp
8.56lbs per hp

Slight advantage for the Ryker, but not enough for a buyer that is looking for performance to dismiss the F3.

But, if the Ryker's engine was to produce 88hp like the snowmobile does, then the power to weight ratio becomes 7lbs per hp, which on paper looks like a much better advantage to the F3.

* According to all documentation, the Ryker 900 puts out 77hp. I was at the Salon de la Moto de Montreal this weekend and overheard a BRP employee tell visitor over and over the power was 82hp. When I told him their marketing material said 77hp, his reply was that the real output is 82hp, which means the real power to weight ratio is 7.5lbs per hp.

So, what do you think? Am I putting too much importance on these numbers? Why do you think the 'road' version of the same engine is less powerful than the 'snow' version?

 

[Rob Rodriguez]

It's not just the HP, you you look at the Ryker maintenance manual and the snowmobile maintenance manual (for the engine) the oil change and belt change intervals are different. Even the gas rating is different. There seems to be no continuity at all even though it appears the engines and CVT are the same product? BRP does use a lot of electronics to govern their engines however so they may in fact limit the hp output on the Ryker?

 

[Sarge707]

My 2015 F3 SM6 is 115 HP Not 105?? I have both and the F3 is Still the Best Value But I will keep the Ryker for the Hoot Of it!~

 

[redrum]

@Sarge707

You are right, it produces 115hp. I had old numbers apparently. I also found dry weight is 948lbs for the F3-T, is that right?

I will update my original post when I have the correct numbers confirmed.

 

[Navydad]

Does the Ryker have to meet more stringent air quality rules since it is a highway vehicle? Is a snowmobile considered an off road vehicle and as such doesn't have to meet more stringent rules? Whatever modifications are used, electronic or otherwise, to make an engine meet the current laws may also affect the performance output.

 

[blacklightning]

@Sarge707

You are right, it produces 115hp. I had old numbers apparently. I also found dry weight is 948lbs for the F3-T, is that right?

The numbers that you had of 105 on the F3 came into play in 2017 when they dropped the power on the base F3 model to the 105. But the F3S, F3T, and F3 Limited has stayed at 115. The weight that you have for the F3T is correct. But the kicker for the F3 series will come in the form of the difference in rear pulley. On the 2017 and up F3 Limited, they went with a smaller pulley (like on the RT). Therefore, the off line acceleration will be a little less. I met my first Ryker on the road yesterday. I wish we had been heading in the same direction so we could have talked, and had a chance to test the difference in speed. Maybe someone will meet up with someone in the area who has a ryker, and we can put this debate of who's is faster, to rest.

 

[chris56]

the ryker is produced to reach only a max-speed of 100 mls/h - thats a lot of different to the "older" models - on the other side it is much lighter and the ROTAX900 Engine brings a torque of 80 Nm by only 6.500 rpms (maximum is 8.000 rpms) together wirh the new CTV- Gearbox and the shaftdrive it should be "faster" in this range ..
(i get mine on friday ..)

 

[Rogue Hawk]

torque is more fun than hp. Also, I have not been able to ride my Ryker yet, but I expect it to be more nimble. 300 lbs is a lot of extra heft to lug around at slow speeds.

 

[chris56]

torque is more fun than hp. Also, I have not been able to ride my Ryker yet, but I expect it to be more nimble. 300 lbs is a lot of extra heft to lug around at slow speeds.

I hope to get mine on friday ..was also not able to ryde it :dontknow: