RTS steering problem.

[Magic Man]

I have always run the tire pressure at 20 psi since mile 1 on the new RT.

After seeing Fred's and Lamonts video on handling, and Fred saying he found his RT was better two up with the factory 15 psi setting for the front tires, I though I would give 15 psi a try.

I set the tire pressure on the RT to 15 psi and went out to dinner with Patti on the back. Pulling straight out the driveway.

The ride there was OK and we never had any turning around to do so I never noticed what was about to happen next.

We left the resturant and when we got on the RT I tried to turn the bars away from the curb and they would not turn. I mean I really could not get the bars to turn!

I could feel the steering shaft flex I was turning it so hard, and at one point. I also could notice the wheel at this point start to turn and then "kicked back" in the other direction. It was if the DPS was overloaded and had or has a safety override in it with too much load being by sensed by the torque sensor and than kscking it back the other way.

To finally be able to get the bars to turn I had to get the RT rolling a bit then it would turn.

I tried several times on the ride home at every red light and stop sign, but still the same thing. The bars would not turn unless we were rolling a bit.

I again tried it in the driveway at home and still the same thing. I had Patti get off and it got just a slight bit better as it would finally turn but you could feel all kinds of weird stuff happening in the DPS as it was now boarderline able to turn.

Now Patti and I are not exactly "small people" I understand. But me alone is not an issue for a touring bike that is made to carry two people ether, and still the steering was not right.

This morning I took it out again with Patti and the same thing.

I then set the air pressure up to 20 psi and TA DA! It would turn again!

We rode it, and it then turned as "I remembered it to before." However I reset the air to the factory recomended 15 psi and it would once again not turn. Folks when I say would not turn," I really mean would not turn!

I wish you could be here to see this, as it is really freaky how it acts! :yikes:

We reset it to 20 psi and went to breakfast and it was "normal" as it was before. I even tried 25 psi, and as I thought it turned even better.

I am not really to concerned about running 20 psi the tires as I have done it on the SM5 for some time now. However, I am concerned that on a 30K machine when you run the tire pressure where the factory says it should be, and you are ether a large single person or two up it won't move the bars when at a stand still.

It is if the larger contact patch at the lower psi setting has too much grab on the road surface for the steering to overcome. That with the smaller contact patch from the highter psi it has enough power to do so.

I'll be taking the RT and my pressure gauge to the dealer on Tuesday when they open and having them see this first hand.

If they give me the 'well than run 20 psi in the tires" line. I will ask them to be so kind as to put it into writting as if something goes wrong because of the "too high air pressure" on a brand new machine I want someone else "holding the bag" here and not that I went outside factory specs and caused the problem.

I don't know if it's just "luck of the draw" in the RT we got, our sizes or if anyone else noticed this "at a stand still when running 15 psi? But one way or another this just is not right. :dontknow:

As I know more I will post it. But right now I can make this machine go from turning, to not turning by raising or lowering the air pressure. I have now tried it 4 times with the same result each time in each direction.

MM

 

[Mo Lee]

Did you try more than one tire gage and my other question would be is the battery fully charged.

 

[boborgera]

I have always run the tire pressure at 20 psi since mile 1 on the new RT.

After seeing Fred's and Lamonts video on handling, and Fred saying he found his RT was better two up with the factory 15 psi setting for the front tires, I though I would give 15 psi a try.

I set the tire pressure on the RT to 15 psi and went out to dinner with Patti on the back. Pulling straight out the driveway.

The ride there was OK and we never had any turning around to do so I never noticed what was about to happen next.

We left the resturant and when we got on the RT I tried to turn the bars away from the curb and they would not turn. I mean I really could not get the bars to turn!

I could feel the steering shaft flex I was turning it so hard, and at one point. I also could notice the wheel at this point start to turn and then "kicked back" in the other direction. It was if the DPS was overloaded and had or has a safety override in it with too much load being by sensed by the torque sensor and than kscking it back the other way.

To finally be able to get the bars to turn I had to get the RT rolling a bit then it would turn.

I tried several times on the ride home at every red light and stop sign, but still the same thing. The bars would not turn unless we were rolling a bit.

I again tried it in the driveway at home and still the same thing. I had Patti get off and it got just a slight bit better as it would finally turn but you could feel all kinds of weird stuff happening in the DPS as it was now boarderline able to turn.

Now Patti and I are not exactly "small people" I understand. But me alone is not an issue for a touring bike that is made to carry two people ether, and still the steering was not right.

This morning I took it out again with Patti and the same thing.

I then set the air pressure up to 20 psi and TA DA! It would turn again!

We rode it, and it then turned as "I remembered it to before." However I reset the air to the factory recomended 15 psi and it would once again not turn. Folks when I say would not turn," I really mean would not turn!

I wish you could be here to see this, as it is really freaky how it acts! :yikes:

We reset it to 20 psi and went to breakfast and it was "normal" as it was before. I even tried 25 psi, and as I thought it turned even better.

I am not really to concerned about running 20 psi the tires as I have done it on the SM5 for some time now. However, I am concerned that on a 30K machine when you run the tire pressure where the factory says it should be, and you are ether a large single person or two up it won't move the bars when at a stand still.

It is if the larger contact patch at the lower psi setting has too much grab on the road surface for the steering to overcome. That with the smaller contact patch from the highter psi it has enough power to do so.

I'll be taking the RT and my pressure gauge to the dealer on Tuesday when they open and having them see this first hand.

If they give me the 'well than run 20 psi in the tires" line. I will ask them to be so kind as to put it into writting as if something goes wrong because of the "too high air pressure" on a brand new machine I want someone else "holding the bag" here and not that I went outside factory specs and caused the problem.

I don't know if it's just "luck of the draw" in the RT we got, our sizes or if anyone else noticed this "at a stand still when running 15 psi? But one way or another this just is not right. :dontknow:

As I know more I will post it. But right now I can make this machine go from turning, to not turning by raising or lowering the air pressure. I have now tried it 4 times with the same result each time in each direction.

MM

Fred has over a million miles on bikes, Heard him say that a number of times. He can't be wrong! check your air gage.

 

[NancysToy]

The Spyder power steering is inactive when the Spyder is not moving. It appears to be programmed that way. I had no problem turning Nancy's GS Spyder on the concrete or asphalt, when stopped, until after the steering recall upgrade. It appears they changed the programming to remove power assist while stationary. I'm sure the RT is the same...then they added a couple hundred pounds to the front, for good measure. Steering while stationary is something akin to a 49 Plymouth.

I'm certain your assesment of the effect of air pressure is accurate. The smaller contact patch with 20 psi, makes it easier to turn the wheels without benefit of power assist. I have tried 15 psi on my RTS, and it made my handling problem much worse, probably due to the same effect of grabbier tires. It is no wonder the RT5 folks report the RTS being very sensitive to tire pressure, requiring experimentation in one pound increments. Unfortunately, what works for a solo rider, probably won't do as well with two aboard. Too bad we switch modes occasionally.

Unless they decide to reprogram the things, it is unlikely we will see any improvement. I guess it is something we will all have to get used to.

 

[Magic Man]

The Spyder power steering is inactive when the Spyder is not moving. It appears to be programmed that way. I had no problem turning Nancy's GS Spyder on the concrete or asphalt, when stopped, until after the steering recall upgrade. It appears they changed the programming to remove power assist while stationary. I'm sure the RT is the same...then they added a couple hundred pounds to the front, for good measure. Steering while stationary is something akin to a 49 Plymouth.

I'm certain your assesment of the effect of air pressure is accurate. The smaller contact patch with 20 psi, makes it easier to turn the wheels without benefit of power assist. I have tried 15 psi on my RTS, and it made my handling problem much worse, probably due to the same effect of grabbier tires. It is no wonder the RT5 folks report the RTS being very sensitive to tire pressure, requiring experimentation in one pound increments. Unfortunately, what works for a solo rider, probably won't do as well with two aboard. Too bad we switch modes occasionally.

Unless they decide to reprogram the things, it is unlikely we will see any improvement. I guess it is something we will all have to get used to.

No Scotty you don't uinderstand. When I say it won't turn I mean I CAN'T TURN THE BARS! :yikes:

1) I can turn it with 15 psi when stopped and the bike is off. I can not turn it while it is running. I mean it will not turn without twisting something in the steering shaft.

2) As a 30 year power lifer with a current 470lbs bench press I could twist the shaft off of it if I wanted to, but this is not right. So it's not like I'm some small 98 lbs woman not having enough upper body and shoulder strenght to turn it here ether.

3) The steering actually pushes back the other way as you try to force it to turn. It is as if it has a safety override kicking in to keep it from putting too much torque to the steering linkage and wheels.

4) The air pressure reads the same on all 3 digital air gauges I have and also on the Snap on dial gauge I have, so I know it is set correctly.

5) Something is not right here and I can make it do it at will be resetting the air up or down. I have tried it 3 more times today to be sure it could be repeted for when I go to the dealer on Tuesday.

6) I'm not sure where you heard the PS is off when not moving? The SM5 has full assist when stopped ( I just checked it now and I have both updates done to it) which I just verified by steering it when turned off (hard to do) and when sitting there running (much, much easier)

The RT does the same when the air is at 20 psi or higher. Harder to steer when engine is off than it is when engine is running so there is power assist when running and stopped on both my SM5 and RTS.

I think it will end up being something to do with the torque sensor and maybe cranking up it's setting to allow for more assist when stopped before it runs into it's safety overload settings? :dontknow:

MM

 

[NancysToy]

No Scotty you don't uinderstand. When I say it won't turn I mean I CAN'T TURN THE BARS! :yikes:

If you can't turn them, what hope is there for an aged wimp likle me? :roflblack:

1) I can turn it with 15 psi when stopped and the bike is off. I can not turn it while it is running. I mean it will not turn without twisting something in the steering shaft.

That is odd! I cannot readily turn either Nancy's Spyder or mine when the key is off, if it is on cement or asphalt. They do not resist to the point of breakage, however, they just take a good jerk on the bars (not the one holding them) and a lot of muscle. They are no different when turned on, until they start to roll. Nancy's used to be easy to steer, stationary with the engine started, but not since the updates. On the other hand, neither of ours gets harder when running. That sure seems like a problem to me.

6) I'm not sure where you heard the PS is off when not moving? The SM5 has full assist when stopped ( I just checked it now and I have both updates done to it) which I just verified by steering it when turned off (hard to do) and when sitting there running (much, much easier).

I'm not sure, but I thought I remembered seeing a comment to that effect. Maybe it was just someone's impressions after the update. I would certainly agree with that impression, as far as our two Spyders are concerned. Why different people's Spyders seem to react so differently is beyond me. Maybe it is just the beholders. If I were closer, we could try each others rides out, to see which of us was nuts. Nevermind, I know it's me. :yikes:

***

 

[ThreeWheels]

I found something similar. I've settled on 17 psi in the tires. Too low and you can't steer it in the parking lot. Too high and the smaller contact patch makes it get twitchy on the highway.

 

[raptor01]

It's just a sad day when you go out and buy a $30,000 machine. Fire up the old computer and start to read all the problems that people are having. Would you not think that BRP would be just a little more concerned about the people that are bying their products? Sometimes when I get on my rts and it does something weired I think, did they even test these things before they started to sale them? I know if this was a product that I had developed, I would be preparing for a class action law suit. Sorry, just had to thow in my two cents.