False. Will you be at Spyderfest? I will explain as to why some of Pro10s theory is accurate but some of it is false. If not, you are more than welcome to contact me at the office at 1-800-557-0552 ext 257.
John @ Elka
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There were many reasons for the change of the site software, the biggest was security. The age of the old software also meant no server updates for certain programs. There are many benefits to the new software, one of the biggest is the mobile functionality. Ill fix up some stuff in the coming days, we'll also try to get some of the old addons back or the data imported back into the site like the garage. To create a thread or to reply with a post is basically the same as it was in the prior software. The default style of the site is light colored, but i temporarily added a darker colored style, to change you can find a link at the bottom of the site.
False. Will you be at Spyderfest? I will explain as to why some of Pro10s theory is accurate but some of it is false. If not, you are more than welcome to contact me at the office at 1-800-557-0552 ext 257.
John @ Elka
BajaRon
Well-known member
:agree: My 1975 Can-AM 250 and 1970 Kawasaki Mach III are 2 extremely good examples of this.
... also, I am not happy with rt shocks on my rs.
Guess I just need to open my wallet a little wider.
It all depends on what you are looking for, how you ride, which RT shocks you have and how you have them set-up. There is no doubt that a set of Elka's are going to out perform any OEM shock.
A common misconception is that ride comfort must suffer to achieve improvements in suspension. It may have been true at one time but we have progressed beyond that.
Too many people equate stiffer suspension with better handling.
Instead, good suspension delivers a more controlled ride, which in itself provides a great amount of added comfort on several levels.
The bottom line is that suspension is a complicated situation. But that doesn't mean it has to be difficult. With good components and a little understanding of how to properly adjust them, it is definitely money well spent.
pro10is
New member
John, I'm an IBM electro-mechanical and software engineer with well over 30 years of experience but I'll be the first to admit I'm not infallible, nor am I a suspension expert. Right now I stand by my explanation but I'll stand corrected if you can factually prove me wrong. I would very much appreciate your opinion and I'm sure others would as well. Give and take is what this forum is all about. Not all of us can be at Spyderfest or wish to call so why not provide an explanation right here and now so we all could benefit?
I admire Elka's products but Elka does not openly provide anywhere near enough technical information on exactly how their Spyder line of products provide benefit or how they compare with OEM and the competition. The Elka web site on Spyder shocks provides only one very brief paragraph and a very basic rundown of the product line. That's it. That's not enough to base a $695-$1,595 decision upon. We can call but most of us aren't looking for a sale's pitch, we'd much prefer published technical information so we can make an informed choice. In other words, details! We want details! Elka provides details on products for other vehicles, why not the Spyder? The Spyder is a very unique vehicle, we can't assume information on other Elka products such as for motorcycles, ATV's, or snowmobiles directly apply to the Spyder.
In this forum most of what we really have to go by is varying empirical information from users that is sometimes more emotional than factual and this has obviously led to some confusion about exactly what performance shocks do and don't do. We rely on this forum to learn everything we can about our Spyders so we can enjoy them to the fullest. Suspension technology is tricky enough, never mind the added effects caused by the VSS, so we especially need to learn more in this area. Please don't be vague as in your comment above or limit your discussions to one on ones. Why not let everyone here in on the information? Help us to understand exactly how Elka products provide benefit to Spyder owners while at the same time being open and honest about their limitations. Until this information is made available we're going to continue to ask questions and attempt to come up with our own theories, simply because that's what we do.
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This is part of my issue. As much as I respect your background, you are not a suspension expert, yet you continue to provide information on a public forum about suspension without having enough deeply rooted knowledge of how the dynamics of hydraulic dampening interact with spring weight and tension and how it can all be manipulated to do all the things you claim it can't. I have very little ( if any at all) knowledge about IBM Electro mechanical or software engineering, however I dont dare venture into discussions I know little about.
The interesting thing is that the head engineer that we have on board also has 25 years of hydraulic and mechanical engineering and we like to think that he knows what he is doing, and we would not be where we were if we were selling product without having done the proper R&D, market research, testing, and product delivery.
I know you didnt mean this to be, however I see this as being rather insulting. NEVER have I come to this forum to throw ANY sales pitches around to ANYONE, neither have I done it over the phone with any customer who has bought Elka products or not for their vehicles. All I have EVER done was be honest about the choices we have concerning the products that I am questioned about. My role here has ALWAYS been, and will ALWAYS be to help the Spyder community with any questions regarding their suspension, and neither would I refuse to help a Spyder rider with their suspension REGARDLESS of what type of suspension they are riding. If people feel I have done otherwise, I will gladly refrain from participating on Spyderlovers as to not be accused ever again of doing nothing but pitching Elka's products.
As far as I am concerned, there is NO BETTER form of "sales pitch" or marketing then testimonials from customers who have spent the money on the product and have found nothing but more enjoyment riding their Spyders. Trust me when I tell you the most emotional a customer will get is when they spend their hard earned money on a product that does not deliver to their expectations. Nobody gets more emotional than an unsatisfied customer.
As for technical information on the product, I could literally spend three hours typing out dyno charts, damping curves, linear and progressive spring rate graphs, high speed and low speed compression valving recipes, and rebound needle dimensions with oil flow charts until I am blue in the face, but 80% of it is not going to make sense to anybody. Not only that, but by the 3rd paragraph of 45 paragraph rant, most people will have clicked on another forum topic, and all we will have left is you and I having a conversion based on mechanical engineering suspension theories until we puke. I am not going to do that, as unfortunately right now at this very moment, I am getting prepared for my trip to Cuba MO from Montreal Canada to HELP people at Spyderfest and educate them on how suspension works. PERIOD. There is nothing I hate more than a dishonest sales person with dollar signs in their eyes, and I am DEFINATELY NOT one of them. I am sure that those who met me there last year, and to all those that I spoke to over the phone between then and now will attest to that fact.
For your benefit while at Spyderfest, I will take 10 minutes every night I am there to summarise technical suspension design and technology on a word document, and once I return, I will copy and paste it on the forum for all to see. Hopefully then, I will have earned your respect as a PERSON and not just another sales pitch machine.
This is all I will say on this matter until I return from Spyderfest.
Deepest regards,
John @ Elka
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SteveMac
MOgang Member & Monster Member,
Thank you John for your continued support of SpyderLovers, SpyderFest and Spyder owners in particular. Please don't let one post convince you to do otherwise.
I can attest that in my dealings with you publicly on the forum and privately when ordering, that I have always felt like I was speaking to a friend and never felt a sales pitch was in the works.
You have always gone above and beyond to fairly compare your product and offer help and advice to all here without any sales pressure. For that and many other things THANK YOU.
Often when online, postings and meanings are misconstrued. I hope and believe that is the case here with Pro10is.
Again, thank you for being here and participating.
SteveMac
I can attest that in my dealings with you publicly on the forum and privately when ordering, that I have always felt like I was speaking to a friend and never felt a sales pitch was in the works.
You have always gone above and beyond to fairly compare your product and offer help and advice to all here without any sales pressure. For that and many other things THANK YOU.
Often when online, postings and meanings are misconstrued. I hope and believe that is the case here with Pro10is.
Again, thank you for being here and participating.
SteveMac
Z
zrc
Guest
I just wanna take a 90 degree turn at 75 mph. HELP A BROTHER OUT.
No seriously I am very interested in Elkas and Fox, as well as a 15mm sway bar, I am just looking for proof I will hammer them and get a change in performance.
Unlike most, I couldnt care less about charts, theory, or whatever else. I am a highly technical dude, and I understand that cars will run if I put fuel in them and keep the other various fluids in the correct locations. IE I am car / bike retarded, that isnt correct, I am ignorant about them, because I can be taught and I have not been.
But when I drive (or ride), I want to to FEEL the car / bike perform. I grew up out in the sticks on gravel roads. So I learned to drive differently than most people my age. I learned to FEEL the car / truck / bike and learned to deal with it in a loose traction fashion and environment. I get the physics, I get the theory, but I also know that the application never obeys the theory, and that physics can be bent further than most people are willing to push it. I push it to the breaking point, and sometimes beyond.
So that is what I wanna talk about... Am I crazy enough to spend 2500 bucks on stage 5 shocks. You bet your ass I am, because if it makes my ride insane and lets me slide through a curve and throttle out, then I will be all the happier. Am I willing to put on a crazy ass sway bar because I wanna feel like my bike is trying to throw me off like the prom queen when I wasnt her date, YOU KNOW I AM.
So lets talk real performance, nothing dyno'd nothing on paper. Put it on my ride and lets get crazy.
No seriously I am very interested in Elkas and Fox, as well as a 15mm sway bar, I am just looking for proof I will hammer them and get a change in performance.
Unlike most, I couldnt care less about charts, theory, or whatever else. I am a highly technical dude, and I understand that cars will run if I put fuel in them and keep the other various fluids in the correct locations. IE I am car / bike retarded, that isnt correct, I am ignorant about them, because I can be taught and I have not been.
But when I drive (or ride), I want to to FEEL the car / bike perform. I grew up out in the sticks on gravel roads. So I learned to drive differently than most people my age. I learned to FEEL the car / truck / bike and learned to deal with it in a loose traction fashion and environment. I get the physics, I get the theory, but I also know that the application never obeys the theory, and that physics can be bent further than most people are willing to push it. I push it to the breaking point, and sometimes beyond.
So that is what I wanna talk about... Am I crazy enough to spend 2500 bucks on stage 5 shocks. You bet your ass I am, because if it makes my ride insane and lets me slide through a curve and throttle out, then I will be all the happier. Am I willing to put on a crazy ass sway bar because I wanna feel like my bike is trying to throw me off like the prom queen when I wasnt her date, YOU KNOW I AM.
So lets talk real performance, nothing dyno'd nothing on paper. Put it on my ride and lets get crazy.
Z
zrc
Guest
I have no clue what I am talking about 
At least I know it!
At least I know it!
SteveMac
MOgang Member & Monster Member,
P
pitbull
Guest
Go trooper!!! Tell it like it is!!! A man with a education and experience is never at the mercy with a man argument! John I've never seen you a sales pitch, just Education, knowledge, wisdom and guidance. Thanks for Being good at what you do.
P
pitbull
Guest
:agree:
LOL
That guy must have a whole case of "word of the day toilet paper"! :yikes:
P
pitbull
Guest
:thumbup:
bullant12
New member
bullant12
New member
Took you a while to notice...:roflblack:
bcoulter19
New member
Ok, I have been looking for a place to ask this question and this looks like it. I have 2010 RS stock shocks (as far as I know). If i am going above 60 mph and there is any cross wind it feels like I am in a high profile vehicle (SUV) in a 30 mile an hour wind. So, if what I am reading here is correct y'all think I should have the oem shocks set to 5 and I could probably use a sway bar and better shocks and that would help my issue. I welcome any comments. the reason I don't sound sure about the shocks is I bought it used but it only had 97 miles on it.
pro10is
New member
Time Out
John, Please accept my sincerest apology for anything that I said that may have been misconstrued and upset you. I assure you that was never my intention. Please reread my posts and you'll see this is true. In my recent and past posts I have expressed numerous times my admiration for Elka's products and especially for your participation in this forum. Please see my past thread where you and I had a great discussion about this:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ve-Front-Suspension-Discussion&highlight=elka
I'm truly distressed and at a loss as to why you or anyone else feel any of my posts were in any way offensive, unfair, or insulting to you or Elka. I simply posted my views on the positives and negatives of both OEM and performance shocks. I based my views on information from published documents from numerous reliable sources which I believe to be accurate. My opinion was unbiased and balanced. I praised performance shocks for their ability to substantially improve handling and expressed my views that there may also be some down sides to comfort and VSS calibration. I then concluded that it was up to the individual to determine what shocks he or she should use based upon their style of riding. Hardly anything new or controversial.
You then posted that some of my information was accurate but some of it was false. This was a bit vague but I had absolutely no objection and readily admitted I was not infallible and not suspension expert. I even made a plea for you to provide some much needed facts and details because without them we're on our own to determine to the best of our ability how performance shocks were designed and how they provide benefit. I meant absolutely no insult about making a call. I fully expect a sales pitch when I call any business and inquire about a product, who doesn't? That's a perfectly normal and expected business practice. If you're an exception then again I express my respect and admiration. I simply was trying to say that rather than having everyone call you, and you having to explain it over and over, it would be more practical to answer our questions and concerns here where everyone could benefit from your expertise. I also want to make it perfectly clear that no one here, especially me, has ever inferred or called you a "sales pitch machine" and you already have our respect as a person and as a company. I don't know how you could have possibly thought otherwise.
I accept your criticism about about not having enough deeply rooted knowledge about your product design and ask yet again for your knowledge to set straight anything that I or anyone else might have gotten wrong. I'm certainly not asking for 45 paragraphs of ultra detailed information, I'm only asking for enough insight to answer our legitimate questions and concerns about a product extremely vital to our riding enjoyment and safety. I thank you in advance and greatly look forward to your posts summarizing suspension design.
Best of luck and sincerest regards to you and to Elka during Spyderfest.
John, Please accept my sincerest apology for anything that I said that may have been misconstrued and upset you. I assure you that was never my intention. Please reread my posts and you'll see this is true. In my recent and past posts I have expressed numerous times my admiration for Elka's products and especially for your participation in this forum. Please see my past thread where you and I had a great discussion about this:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ve-Front-Suspension-Discussion&highlight=elka
I'm truly distressed and at a loss as to why you or anyone else feel any of my posts were in any way offensive, unfair, or insulting to you or Elka. I simply posted my views on the positives and negatives of both OEM and performance shocks. I based my views on information from published documents from numerous reliable sources which I believe to be accurate. My opinion was unbiased and balanced. I praised performance shocks for their ability to substantially improve handling and expressed my views that there may also be some down sides to comfort and VSS calibration. I then concluded that it was up to the individual to determine what shocks he or she should use based upon their style of riding. Hardly anything new or controversial.
You then posted that some of my information was accurate but some of it was false. This was a bit vague but I had absolutely no objection and readily admitted I was not infallible and not suspension expert. I even made a plea for you to provide some much needed facts and details because without them we're on our own to determine to the best of our ability how performance shocks were designed and how they provide benefit. I meant absolutely no insult about making a call. I fully expect a sales pitch when I call any business and inquire about a product, who doesn't? That's a perfectly normal and expected business practice. If you're an exception then again I express my respect and admiration. I simply was trying to say that rather than having everyone call you, and you having to explain it over and over, it would be more practical to answer our questions and concerns here where everyone could benefit from your expertise. I also want to make it perfectly clear that no one here, especially me, has ever inferred or called you a "sales pitch machine" and you already have our respect as a person and as a company. I don't know how you could have possibly thought otherwise.
I accept your criticism about about not having enough deeply rooted knowledge about your product design and ask yet again for your knowledge to set straight anything that I or anyone else might have gotten wrong. I'm certainly not asking for 45 paragraphs of ultra detailed information, I'm only asking for enough insight to answer our legitimate questions and concerns about a product extremely vital to our riding enjoyment and safety. I thank you in advance and greatly look forward to your posts summarizing suspension design.
Best of luck and sincerest regards to you and to Elka during Spyderfest.
wyliec
New member
What you describe is the reason I went to the 2011 RT shocks (or whatever shocks you want) and the evo sway bar. My front shocks were set to 5 before the change out. The 2011 RT shocks are set to 3. The crosswind problem has been taken care of.
You didn't say where your shocks are set right now. The least expensive way to try and correct your issue would be to adjust your shocks. Don't forget to spray the adjusters with 10W40. I believe I also jacked up my spyder when making the adjustment because others had damaged their adjusters.
One more thing if you are making a comparison is I weigh in at 175# and I have a 2008 GS.
Bob Denman
New member
Back to Randy's picture for a moment...
:yikes::yikes::yikes: you're gonna start an International incident that'll make the Korean War look like the "Million Mom March"... :roflblack:
:yikes::yikes::yikes: you're gonna start an International incident that'll make the Korean War look like the "Million Mom March"... :roflblack:
coz
Active member
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