RT engine vs Gold Wing engine

[Oldmanzues]

I have been following this for a while. I am starting to get old and wanted a three wheeler. Actually bought a VTX 1300 to trike. Rode several different trike conversions with different bikes. None was what I was looking for. I know, to each his own, I am not trying to start anything.

I was able to demo a Spyder at Vintage Days in Ohio last year for several miles. Liked it. Went to a dealer for slow in parking lot stuff, bought it. A little over 4K on it in five months. No matter what the age, Spyders are fun and easy to ride. My ST 1100 does not get much use anymore.

A engine to replace the Rotax. How about a V 4 ST1300 ?

Old Man Zues

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

Goldwing engine VS Spyder engine

It was brought to my attention that comparing a Goldwing to A RT/RS/GS engine would be impossible in that they were designed to do very different things. The Rotax 990 was built to be a racing/sport bike engine that developes high HP (for its size) and does it by turning very high PRM. The Goldwing engine, on the other hand, was exclusively designed for a touring motorcycle and the engine is not used for anything else (except the RUNE and don't know what you would call that). So the difference is in the intended use as by design. They are both very good at what they were designed for. The Rotax for high performance racing, the Goldwing for touring. In its present state the Goldwing would not make the best racing engine, as the Rotax would not be the best power plant for touring. IMHO:f_spider:


Michael:doorag:

 

[BajaRon]

It's not easy to get real apples to apples stats for this but here is what I found.

Spyder RT vs Goldwing 1800

Horsepower - 100hp - 118hp
Torque - 80 lb-ft. -125 lb-ft.
Weight - 929 lbs. - 928 lbs. (2 wheeled version)
Fuel Tank 6.6 gals. - 6.6 gals.

I did find one weight spec for a Cobra Goldwing trike kit of 1080 lbs. Hard to believe that triking the Goldwing would add just 90 pounds.

Triking a Goldwing does not require adding all the storage that has been added to the standard Spyder for the RT.

But triking the Goldwing does require adding some heavy components like 2 large automotive tires/wheels, an automotive type differential, axle and suspension. Not to mention large fender skirts to cover it all.

You do lose the original tire/drive/suspension/fender but you are certainly replacing these with much heavier systems.

Not only will the Goldwing trike be heavier than the RT, but there is additional power train loss wth the trike system that does not ocurr in the RT.

So yes, the Goldwing trike power plant is bigger and has both more HP and Torque. But it also has more to deal with in Weight and Power Train loss than the RT.

After riding with Lamont on his loaner RT, I think those that actually get to ride one will be surprised.

The RT isn't going to give crotch rockets a run, but I'll bet there are a number of Goldwing owners jumping over to the RT.

 

[reinie]

I've demoed both, sort-of.

Last year I demoed an SM5 Spyder and about six weeks ago demoed a new unsold 2007 GL1800 Goldwing with a Roadsmith Trike conversion on it. This unit was still priced at $29,999 and it had the lateral g-forces similar to the Spyder to contend with. It had an easy-steer rake kit but still required quite a bit of effort in tight corners. Very roomy and very quiet with a plush ride to it and seemed to have more than adequate power out on the road. Since it cost more than my first house I passed on it. The RT Spyder looks intriguing, but the top shelf model only comes in about 5 grand below the GW trike. I'll still have to demo one when the opportunity arrives as the base RT looks to be a bit less pricey. It still boils down to an apples and oranges comparison in my humble opinion.

 

[BajaRon]

Last year I demoed an SM5 Spyder and about six weeks ago demoed a new unsold 2007 GL1800 Goldwing with a Roadsmith Trike conversion on it. This unit was still priced at $29,999 and it had the lateral g-forces similar to the Spyder to contend with. It had an easy-steer rake kit but still required quite a bit of effort in tight corners. Very roomy and very quiet with a plush ride to it and seemed to have more than adequate power out on the road. Since it cost more than my first house I passed on it. The RT Spyder looks intriguing, but the top shelf model only comes in about 5 grand below the GW trike. I'll still have to demo one when the opportunity arrives as the base RT looks to be a bit less pricey. It still boils down to an apples and oranges comparison in my humble opinion.

In some respects I agree, it is apples and oranges. Especially when you compare the price of a 2 (soon to be 3) year old clearance GW trike to a 2010 RT. Though I get your drift it's still not an even comparrison.

But in other respects it's just 2 different ways to arrive at the same destination and I think it comes close to apples and apples that way.

We just talked to a guy that had a brand new Champion Trike conversion that cost him $38k. I'm assuming that was the Out-The-Door price, not sticker price. It was a very nice machine but as Lamont went over the RT the GW owner kept saying things like "Mine doesn't have that, or Mine won't do that".

The real killer was when his wife sat on the RT and said it was more comfortable than their GW.

Admittedly, she didn't ride on the back but still, it did'nt put a smile on the guys face.

I'm not saying the RT is a better deal. The Honda is a fine machine that is proven and has something the RT will never have, Honda engineering.

But I am saying I think the RT has something that the Honda does not, and will give the GW a run for the money. And it's the Apples to Apples part that will make it a competitor in that market.

It will be interesting, to say the least.

 

[brewsky]

Gold Wing engine to Rotax engine..no contest..118HP, 125 ft lbs TQ to 100 HP, 80# TQ....the math has already been done.........but............
An RT vs Gold Wing Trike calls for an MCN shootout!!
Having owned 3 1800 wings, one of which was attached to a CSC trike kit, I can tell you a trike feels underpowered compared to the 2 wheel version.
The SM5 we demo'd, and almost bought, did not feel underpowered compared to the trike.
Shootout time......RT vs GL1800 trike (preferably IRS version)

 

[reinie]

Apples/Oranges, Wings & Spyders

I guess being these machines are totally different in every way, the only thing they have in common is three wheels. Perhaps it was unfair to demo a nearly three year old unsold trike conversion, but at the time I though it was pretty nice of that Honda dealer to allow not only me to demo ride, but to let me take my wife as passenger along for the ride. Hopefully my Yamaha dealer (who also sells Can Am Spyders) will be as generous whenever he gets a new RT. In the context of the ride I took, the Goldwing trike felt large, was comfortable, exhibited more resistance to turning than expected, and seemed to have ample engine power. Now that being said, I cannot see anywhere that I showed any disrespect for either the Goldwing or the Can Am. I think that Honda dealer was a bit high priced considering the age of the trike, but maybe not way-off considering a new one is over 36 grand.

 

[jcbatt]

Agree, apples and oranges...

I am a new Spyder owner (08 SM5). I am young, and have owned a GL1800 (2 wheel) before (it was the only thing my wife would ride with me). My father recently became a Champion trike dealer, so this past week I got to ride my Spyder and a GL1800 with the Champion kit back to back.

Completely different machines, each with the pluses and minuses.

Spyder = very sporty feel, ability to handle really well if I move around on it, not as comfortable for longer trips, not nearly as comfortable for a passenger. Much better suited to my age and preference for sporty feel then the GW.

GL1800 w/ Champion and easy steer = adequate power, better handling than I thought it would have (I was able to ride it just as fast around bends as I can the Spyder and it felt very solid), great for long distance, and my wife loved it. When we were parked, both got a lot of looks and drew a lot of attention (I was actually surprised the GW trike did). I was not overwhelmed with the power, but I think it has more to do with the smoothness of the GW than anything else - the power is just always there. I was pleasantly surprised with the handling.

I will be very interested to see how an RT compares to a GW trike.

 

[reinie]

Demo vs. Ownership

I hardly qualify here as I haven't yet owned either machine. I do however like to demo ride different bikes/trikes to get an idea what I want to have for my next ride. I am 56 years of age and backing out onto my gravel driveway gets more difficult each year. Ditto for holding up the bike while my wife gets on and off or at stops while two-up. I can see the day coming when three wheels or a lighter/lower bike will be needed. The reverse gear of the Spyder or the Goldwing is another beneficial feature I can really appreciate. I can relate to needing power as a fully loaded two-up machine needs it whether it be on-ramps, passing, or hill climbing/headwinds. If that is less than adequate, I'd be more than a bit uncomfortable with it.

 

[jcbatt]

One point on the reverse gear - its much better on the Spyder, as it is uses the engine power, not the electric starter as it does on the goldwing. I may be nuts, but I always hate using the reverse on the GW too long because it seems like it is hard on that little electric motor and the battery. Not a big deal, but it is a difference.

 

[jnt]

Have a friend with a Spyder, former owner of a succession of 3 GW trikes. Spyder handles "way better, especially in the twisties". She is now working on farkelizing her RS for comfort.

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

Reverse

One point on the reverse gear - its much better on the Spyder, as it is uses the engine power, not the electric starter as it does on the goldwing. I may be nuts, but I always hate using the reverse on the GW too long because it seems like it is hard on that little electric motor and the battery. Not a big deal, but it is a difference.

There is no doubt that the Spyder has the better reverse.nojoke


Michael:doorag:

 

[Questions]

goldwing vs Spyder RT

Ok let me start by saying this is more of a question and answer thread, because i dont know much about the true facts about the wing engine. Hear is my two cents. we are already hearing that the engine on the RT is to small and the gas milage is bad, before 99% of the people have even riden the RT. it is not a 30 year old concept like the gold wing, it is all new, i thing the BRP design team did a great job on the first two models in three years in the market of on the road riding, here again is my two cents.
RT vs GW
lets say the RT gets 30 mpg and the GW gets 40 mpg.
30 x 6 = 180 miles
40 x 6 = 240 miles
so we spending $ 25000.00 on the machine, are we worried more about the extra $ 5.00 it cost us to go 60 more miles or that we could ride 60 more miles?
I think if we are spending $ 25,000.00, $5 bucks is not going to make me buy a GW.

Second= what is the percentage of people that ride over 180 miles without stopping. not me!
Third = RT will go over the US speed limit, so how fast do you need to go?

When you go buy a new car do you buy the one that gets 40 mpg over the one that get 30 mpg. or how far you can go on a tank of gas, NO you buy the one you like the best.

Can't wait for my RT-S and trailer to get here. :2thumbs:

Just returned from a 3800 mile trip. I have a 2011 RT Limited, there was a 2008 goldwing and a 2008 harley ultra classic both with MotorTrike conversions on them. We all filled gas at the same time and the gold wing would average 36, harley 33, and my spyder 31 ish. As far as power both the goldwing and spyder would both hide from the harley. Running at 80 mph on the interstate side by side with the wing we both give it full throtle, my spyder pulled away until about 105mph and then then wing passed me up slowly. Don't short change the spyder, it will perform with the wings.
Outback

 

[Pennyrick]

Three weeks ago I traded in my 2002 GW 1800 on a 2011 RT-SM. As most have expressed on this thread the GL 1800 engine is bulletproof. Mine had 39,000 trouble free miles on it pulling the triked bike with a Motor Trike three wheel kit while returning 30-36 mpg. I loved the way I could pull from 1,500 rpm in 5th gear and the laid back comfort of the Honda.

My wife's '10 RT woke me up to the fact that the Gold Wing just doesn't have the excitement of the Spyder. So my triked '02 with lots of aftermarket goodies on it brought me $19,000 on the trade for the new RT. My out-the-door price on the RT was $26,136, so for a little over seven grand I have put new life back into my riding.

In 1974 I bought my first bike, a Honda CB 360T. Over the ensuing years, I have owned many others. Now at age 72 I am rediscovering some of the lost fun that I was missing on the Gold Wing Trike.

 

[Slybird]

Ok let me start by saying this is more of a question and answer thread, because i dont know much about the true facts about the wing engine. Hear is my two cents. we are already hearing that the engine on the RT is to small and the gas milage is bad, before 99% of the people have even riden the RT. it is not a 30 year old concept like the gold wing, it is all new, i thing the BRP design team did a great job on the first two models in three years in the market of on the road riding, here again is my two cents.
RT vs GW
lets say the RT gets 30 mpg and the GW gets 40 mpg.
30 x 6 = 180 miles
40 x 6 = 240 miles
so we spending $ 25000.00 on the machine, are we worried more about the extra $ 5.00 it cost us to go 60 more miles or that we could ride 60 more miles?
I think if we are spending $ 25,000.00, $5 bucks is not going to make me buy a GW.

Second= what is the percentage of people that ride over 180 miles without stopping. not me!
Third = RT will go over the US speed limit, so how fast do you need to go?

When you go buy a new car do you buy the one that gets 40 mpg over the one that get 30 mpg. or how far you can go on a tank of gas, NO you buy the one you like the best.

Can't wait for my RT-S and trailer to get here. :2thumbs:

I totally agree with everything said. When I was an active Iron Butt rider, I loved my Goldwing with its aux 4.5 gal fuel tank in the right saddlebag....meaning I didn't have to stop for a good five to six hours at a crack. Now that I've moved on and decided to back off a little and smell the roses, so to speak, the stopping every two to two and a half hours works for me just fine. And while I'll NEVER badmouth a Wing, the RT-S is BY FAR the most comfortable touring machine I've ever owned (having gone through 3-Wings, 1-Venture and an Ultra-Classic).

Ryde on!!!

 

[Mr. White]

I just got back from a 168 mile lunch ride on my '02 Gold Wing with a solid axle Motor Trike kit. This is the first long ride in over a month, my other riding has been on my RT. I got 33 mpg today, which I usually get, plus or minus 1 or 2 mpg depending on my right hand. I have 60,169 trouble free miles on my Wing. The engine is smooth and powerful. My trike weighs 1250 according to Motor Trike. The electronics are second to none.

My 2011 RT-S SE5 has 2024 miles on it and it runs like a hose. It, too, is smooth and powerful, although not as strong as my Wing. The radio is not as good, but I have different headsets in my two FF helmets and this could be part of the problem. I like the SE shifting.

My RT is smoother on bumpy pavement and handles better than my Wing does in curves. Both are great on the Interstate. I only speak of MY machines, but I am really getting used to my RT and like it more each day. So far, a change out of the DPS sensor is the only defect. Time will tell.

I love them both. hyea:

:spyder2:

 

[Pandy]

No comparison

Tried as I did, (see posts about GW Trike) My friend wanted the GW. Granted, for handling and storage, it's the RT all the way. The GW throttle response is like a rheostat. Not that ours is jerky,it's just different. The way the two machines respond to the torque at hand is far different as well. As another thought, the :spyder2: is a purpose built machine, the GW a very good, but still an adaptation. That's why I don't have one. Another factor is WOOT!

Patrick

 

[Bob Denman]

Somebody mentioned Sea Doo... There's no doubt that Bombardier has always tried to be a leader! :thumbup:

 

[Mr. White]

Tried as I did, (see posts about GW Trike) My friend wanted the GW. Granted, for handling and storage, it's the RT all the way. The GW throttle response is like a rheostat. Not that ours is jerky,it's just different. The way the two machines respond to the torque at hand is far different as well. As another thought, the :spyder2: is a purpose built machine, the GW a very good, but still an adaptation. That's why I don't have one. Another factor is WOOT!

Patrick

Patrick, not to worry. I think you said your friend got a California Sidecar kit on his Wing. This is a outstanding company with many fine dealer/installers. I rode my GW trike yesterday and really enjoyed it. It is a different ride than the Spyder, but a good ride. I have over 60K on my trike and it has been problem free.... Your friend will have many, many miles on his trike with a grin on his face. "He done good!"

:spyder2:

 

[ARtraveler]

Very interesting discussion. Lots of points of view and inputs.

I really like the fact of having more power than I need--I came off of a Vulcan 2000cc cruiser to get my first :spyder2:. I also like the quiet and smoothness of the bigger engines.

Also had Yamaha 1980's Venture and Kawasaki 2000's Voyager--both close to the wing. i really liked both--but I started to have issues with the heavyness and muscle needed to horse the bigger bikes around.

I do like the ergonomics of the Spyder--especially the RTS. The real reverse is a plus for me.

My only complaint is I feel that it is underpowered with the 990 Rotax, and I would like a quieter, smoother engine. I have had one of each year :spyder2: since their inception. I did not jump on the 2011's because all that appealed to me was the Pearl White RTS.

If they come out with a bigger, smoother engine--I will be in the market for that--and will trade in the 2010 RTS. That will probably be my last bike--but I am still waiting.