Riding skyway today and this happened....

[pellcitypete]

HEIM JOINTS

If you are doing this modification you need to be careful. There is more to it than just putting together 2 Rod Ends with some All Thread Rod and a little Lock Tite.

Take a look at this picture. You will notice that the ball ends are not the same. The OEM balls are extended and measure .710" outside to outside. The replacement NAPA part uses a standard ball which measures .438". That leaves you short .272" or just over 1/4". This is a very important 1/4".

The reason our OEM Heim balls are extended is to increase the amount of deflection or 'Misalignment' they can handle (around 55/60 degrees). The NAPA, and similar rod ends, will provide only 12-14 degrees. Though we probably don't need 60 degrees, we certainly do need more than 14 degrees.

You can add washers or spacers to get back the missing 1/4". But if the washer/spacer exceeds the diameter of the extended portion of the OEM ball, you will not increase the misalignment capabilities of the Heim joint because contact with the washers will then be the limiting factor.

If you do not provide original spacing and do it correctly, you will very likely run out of 'angle' clearance and get contact between the link and the mounting bracket, mounting bolts or sway bar.

An added issue comes into play with the 2013 Spyder. On the 2013's the link is mounted in-between 2 channel pieces with a through bolt. The OEM extended ball fits snugly in the channel. But with a standard ball you're going to get slop and the link will be free to slide back and forth on the mounting bolt inside the channel. I don't know exactly what will happen here because I have not tried it. But rest assured, it won't be good.

Again, you can add washers or spacers but it is important that they do not exceed 1/2" OD to maintain misalignment angle capabilities.

I am in the process of making 50 sets of these Heim joint links which should be ready to ship out next week. I've found a supplier that has a great product that is over twice as strong as the NAPA part (7,600 lbs. static vs. 3,200 lbs. static). Not that I think the NAPA parts are not strong enough (we don't really know how strong the OEM parts are), it's just that I want to be sure these replacement links will last.

It is my opinion that it is dynamic loading that is breaking these links, not static loading. (dynamic load capability is usually 70-80% of static load rating).

The link sets I am making will include everything needed to get the correct spacing and maintain the higher misalignment capabilities that are needed on our Spyders. I don't have an exact price yet but it will be in the range of what the Napa parts cost.

I put your sway bar on my 2011 RT an like it ! I want a pair of your Heim joints also Just send them An let me know price Pete :thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

Ron,
Please put me down for a set of them as well... :thumbup:

 

[rabtech]

He is absolutely correct. You have to find washers with the Napa setup I came up with in the mountains. The washers can not exceed the circumference of where the bolt goes thru by very much or it wont swivel. Ron has a stronger fix and im sure it is a perfect replacement without the washers. I will order his to replace my fix. He products have never disappointed so I know it will be a professional performing item.

Sent from my Galaxy S3. I may have made a spelling error or may have some grammer issues. My fingers are way to big to type on this tiny screen!

 

[rabtech]

This is what Ron is talking about.

Sent from my Galaxy S3. I may have made a spelling error or may have some grammer issues. My fingers are way to big to type on this tiny screen!

 

[BajaRon]

This is what Ron is talking about.

Sent from my Galaxy S3. I may have made a spelling error or may have some grammer issues. My fingers are way to big to type on this tiny screen!

The above pictures are a perfect example of what I am talking about. Though the washers satisfy the width requirement, they are too big and they will contact the rod end long before the Heim ball reaches full movement. This drastically restricts the amount of deflection the link can cope with.

If the washers/spacers are any bigger than the ball end they will restrict deflection. It is easy to see in the pictures below. Both setups are at maximum deflection.

The setup on the left is using correctly sized spacers. The setup on the right (while not using washers) will function exactly like the pictures above. It doesn't matter if it is a washer or flanged bolt head, either way you're going to get early contact. The spacers in the left hand picture don't hit until the ball is at maximum deflection.

If you run out of movement just imagine the leverage applied to this system at the contact point. The same amount of movement (or lack thereof) will apply in all directions and at both ends.

 

[rabtech]

The above pictures are a perfect example of what I am talking about. Though the washers satisfy the width requirement, they are too big and they will contact the rod end long before the Heim ball reaches full movement. This drastically restricts the amount of deflection the link can cope with.

If the washers/spacers are any bigger than the ball end they will restrict deflection. It is easy to see in the pictures below. Both setups are at maximum deflection.

The setup on the left is using correctly sized spacers. The setup on the right (while not using washers) will function exactly like the pictures above. It doesn't matter if it is a washer or flanged bolt head, either way you're going to get early contact. The spacers in the left hand picture don't hit until the ball is at maximum deflection.

If you run out of movement just imagine the leverage applied to this system at the contact point. The same amount of movement (or lack thereof) will apply in all directions and at both ends.

Your pictures were "more better" than mine.

Its because you used magnets and string!


Sent from my Galaxy S3. I may have made a spelling error or may have some grammer issues. My fingers are way to big to type on this tiny screen!

 

[BajaRon]

Your pictures were "more better" than mine.



Sent from my Galaxy S3. I may have made a spelling error or may have some grammer issues. My fingers are way to big to type on this tiny screen!

It's all about getting good information and we're all chipping in on that count. I don't want to see anyone damage their Spyder with the wrong linkage setup.

 

[Biosafena]

I am going to build a set like Rabtech's just to get me by, but please put me on the list for a set of Ron's. I am sure that will be a top notch product. I don't see the sense in me buying anymore factory links cuz they just won't last.


Sent from the corner of walk and don't walk....

 

[Bob Denman]

Rab AND Ron,
You guys have REALLY done a great job of showing what the issue is, and the best way to effect a change that'll last! :clap::clap: :firstplace::firstplace:
Thanks! :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[CyncySpyder]

Gentelman, Teddy & your Country Thank You for your education & improved Solution

:2thumbs: :doorag: :bowdown: :thumbup: :firstplace: :thumbup: :bowdown: :doorag: :2thumbs:

 

[BajaRon]

:2thumbs: :doorag: :bowdown: :thumbup: :firstplace: :thumbup: :bowdown: :doorag: :2thumbs:

We do it all for Teddy....hyea:

 

[Bob Denman]

Talk about putting pressure on you... :shocked:

 

[BajaRon]

Talk about putting pressure on you... :shocked:

True, Teddy is a tough customer. He appreciates a good product but it if doesn't work he's all over you! Phone calls, text messages, PM's, emails.... Don't make him come to your house! :yikes:

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree:
...and Poor Dave; He's always in the DogHouse over something...

 

[Kratos]

Awesome thread..... Great info guys...