Rear wheel weights and bearings questions

[Peteoz]

Because there will be out of balance forces. You being insensitive to them doesn't make them go away for everyone else in the world who rides a Spyder.

Bugger......looks like I’m insensitive, too. I have never had an issue with not balancing my rear, high quality, car tyres, PinkRosePetal. :thumbup:

Pete

 

[Possible]

Just curious if any of you balance the tires for your cars/trucks?

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I can't say if I've got an insensitive butt or not! The local tire guy put Liquid Balance in all the rear tires he's changed out for me. It's the same stuff they use in pickup and truck tires that are too big for their balancer. My rear tires have all run smooth. Is it because the tire is well balanced as made, or because of the Liquid Balance? :dontknow:

 

[Steve W.]

I can't say if I've got an insensitive butt or not! The local tire guy put Liquid Balance in all the rear tires he's changed out for me. It's the same stuff they use in pickup and truck tires that are too big for their balancer. My rear tires have all run smooth. Is it because the tire is well balanced as made, or because of the Liquid Balance? :dontknow:

Now you are starting to throw curve balls by introducing some variables. Previous ASSUMPTION was that you were not balancing tires at all. Now you say there is a "balancing medium" that has been added. By doing that, you are supposedly constantly balancing them. :dontknow:

Mike is right in stating that better-quality tires will likely need fewer weights because they are made better. Does that mean that you (or the installer) should just blindly never balance the tire? NO. It only means that better tires are more likely to need fewer (or no) weights, so you might get by with none, but you should still check to verify.

.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Now you are starting to throw curve balls by introducing some variables. Previous ASSUMPTION was that you were not balancing tires at all. Now you say there is a "balancing medium" that has been added. By doing that, you are supposedly constantly balancing them. :dontknow:

You know what happens when you "Assume"!!! :roflblack: I've mentioned in previous posts about balancing that my tire guy put Liquid Balance in my rear tire. This might be the one: https://esco.net/products/esco-liquid-truck-balancer/ When that was done I was not familiar with the argument that it most likely wasn't necessary. And since the tire guy regularly used the stuff in pickup and truck tires, so he said, why not go ahead and use it. At that point in time I was still of the belief that balancing was necessary.

Does that mean that you (or the installer) should just blindly never balance the tire? NO.

That's the same argument PinkRosePetal makes. And Mike and Peteoz are saying because of the quality of highly rated car tires, based on their experience, you can "blindly never balance".

So who's right? Only time and many tire experiences will tell. But one thing we all agree on. You better balance the Crapendas. Otherwise you have a high probability of having bouncing and shimmying wheels!

 

[Peter Aawen]

Just curious if any of you balance the tires for your cars/trucks?

The differences in dynamic forces experienced by the wheels on each corner of 'four or more wheeled' vehicles or even for those vehicles with 'one wheel running on each end of an axle' vs those forces experienced by a single wheel which is fully supported on each side by the swing arm with two bearing sets on the thru axle makes for a vastly different need (ie LESS) or call for balancing those single wheels. Which is why you'll see most here suggesting that there's rarely little NEED for anything more than the most basic of balancing achieved by properly matching a well constructed tire to the (hopefully already balanced) rim on the REAR of our Spyders.... the front wheels are a whole different ball game tho! Just like the four or more wheels on your car/truck. :lecturef_smilie:

But if you want to throw your hard earned at a problem that rarely & barely exists even when it does eventuates, I'm happy for you to go for it! After all, it is YOUR Spyder. But consider this.... if you took your Spyder in to a dealer to get a new OE spec Kenda fitted, who do you think would do the balancing then?? :dontknow:

Have you seen a dealer who actually has and uses any hi-tech balancing machines?? Furthermore, while many dealers might actually have techs who remove & replace the wheels in-house, most dealers I've seen here in Oz & I suspect over your way too don't even do the tire strip & refit themselves anyway - they outsource all that hi-tech-ery type stuff to one of the local tire shops who has the appropriate gear, so surely it's the tire shop who balances your wheels.... oh, hang on! :shocked: How many of those 'local tire shops' have YOU been able to find that actually have the gear to balance Spyder rear wheels?? Any?? :dontknow: So when the dealer takes your hard earned for fitting a new rear tire, just WHO IS ACTUALLY balancing that wheel assembly?? Anyone?? Or no-one?? Can you guess what I reckon goes on?? :banghead:

 

[Peteoz]

That's the same argument PinkRosePetal makes. And Mike and Peteoz are saying because of the quality of highly rated car tires, based on their experience, you can "blindly never balance".
So who's right? Only time and many tire experiences will tell. But one thing we all agree on. You better balance the Crapendas. Otherwise you have a high probability of having bouncing and shimmying wheels!

Yeah, just as an aside, the guy that replaced my tyres has a machine in his shop that fits the Spyder wheels (he does a lot of specialist vehicles). Unfortunately, he was waiting for parts, as it was broken, and he told me that -

A - he would pretend he didn’t know me if I put any of that green gunk in my tyres. :lecturef_smilie:
B - his experience with Kuhmos was that they were an extremely well balanced tyre, as long as they were mounted correctly.:thumbup:
C - if I felt any imbalance in my sensitive butt, I could come back in and he would help remove the rear wheel and balance it on his (hopefully) fixed machine. :clap:

I have not had to take my sensitive butt back to him after 15,000kms, so I have to agree with his actions :2thumbs:

Of course, different tyres, operating with butts of differing sensitivities, may indeed result in a different outcome. His eyes did widen when he first pulled the Kendas off the rims and had a good look at them though. He did remove the weights from the tyres (some 8 blocks), and did a rough manual balance of the wheel itself, and put one weight block back on. (I have been using him for 10 years, and we have a very good relationship, so he always goes the extra yard for me):thumbup:

Pete

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

A - he would pretend he didn’t know me if I put any of that green gunk in my tyres. :lecturef_smilie:

I'm quite sure the liquid balance the local tire guy uses is a compound much better than the green gunk we mortals pick up at Wal Mart! I figure if he puts it in a tire he just may have to repair later it's not going to be something that is going to give him fits when he does do a repair.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The differences in dynamic forces experienced by the wheels on each corner of 'four or more wheeled' vehicles or even for those vehicles with 'one wheel running on each end of an axle' vs those forces experienced by a single wheel which is fully supported on each side by the swing arm with two bearing sets on the thru axle makes for a vastly different need (ie LESS) or call for balancing those single wheels. Which is why you'll see most here suggesting that there's rarely little NEED for anything more than the most basic of balancing achieved by properly matching a well constructed tire to the (hopefully already balanced) rim on the REAR of our Spyders.... the front wheels are a whole different ball game tho! Just like the four or more wheels on your car/truck. :lecturef_smilie:

But if you want to throw your hard earned at a problem that rarely & barely exists even when it does eventuates, I'm happy for you to go for it! After all, it is YOUR Spyder. But consider this.... if you took your Spyder in to a dealer to get a new OE spec Kenda fitted, who do you think would do the balancing then?? :dontknow:

Have you seen a dealer who actually has and uses any hi-tech balancing machines?? Furthermore, while many dealers might actually have techs who remove & replace the wheels in-house, most dealers I've seen here in Oz & I suspect over your way too don't even do the tire strip & refit themselves anyway - they outsource all that hi-tech-ery type stuff to one of the local tire shops who has the appropriate gear, so surely it's the tire shop who balances your wheels.... oh, hang on! :shocked: How many of those 'local tire shops' have YOU been able to find that actually have the gear to balance Spyder rear wheels?? Any?? :dontknow: So when the dealer takes your hard earned for fitting a new rear tire, just WHO IS ACTUALLY balancing that wheel assembly?? Anyone?? Or no-one?? Can you guess what I reckon goes on?? :banghead:

:agree: with all you said .... especially the first paragraph .... I have posted the same a few times , but didn't on this thread because I don't type and was lazy ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[jcthorne]

The differences in dynamic forces experienced by the wheels on each corner of 'four or more wheeled' vehicles or even for those vehicles with 'one wheel running on each end of an axle' vs those forces experienced by a single wheel which is fully supported on each side by the swing arm with two bearing sets on the thru axle makes for a vastly different need (ie LESS) or call for balancing those single wheels. Which is why you'll see most here suggesting that there's rarely little NEED for anything more than the most basic of balancing achieved by properly matching a well constructed tire to the (hopefully already balanced) rim on the REAR of our Spyders.... the front wheels are a whole different ball game tho! Just like the four or more wheels on your car/truck. :lecturef_smilie:

But if you want to throw your hard earned at a problem that rarely & barely exists even when it does eventuates, I'm happy for you to go for it! After all, it is YOUR Spyder. But consider this.... if you took your Spyder in to a dealer to get a new OE spec Kenda fitted, who do you think would do the balancing then?? :dontknow:

Have you seen a dealer who actually has and uses any hi-tech balancing machines?? Furthermore, while many dealers might actually have techs who remove & replace the wheels in-house, most dealers I've seen here in Oz & I suspect over your way too don't even do the tire strip & refit themselves anyway - they outsource all that hi-tech-ery type stuff to one of the local tire shops who has the appropriate gear, so surely it's the tire shop who balances your wheels.... oh, hang on! :shocked: How many of those 'local tire shops' have YOU been able to find that actually have the gear to balance Spyder rear wheels?? Any?? :dontknow: So when the dealer takes your hard earned for fitting a new rear tire, just WHO IS ACTUALLY balancing that wheel assembly?? Anyone?? Or no-one?? Can you guess what I reckon goes on?? :banghead:

I can assure you we mount AND BALANCE every tire we sell and install on a Spyder. Some shops really do have the tools to do the job right.

 

[Lew L]

r
The General Altimax on my RTs was balanced with no weights nojoke. The tech at Michaels Powersports of Reno just rotated the tire a few inches to get a good balance. Rides SMOOTH.

Lew L

 

[AeroPilot]

r
The General Altimax on my RTs was balanced with no weights nojoke. The tech at Michaels Powersports of Reno just rotated the tire a few inches to get a good balance. Rides SMOOTH.

Lew L

Its nice to have a shop that can mount and check balance and take the time to adjust for a smooth roll!

 

[Lew L]

Its nice to have a shop that can mount and check balance and take the time to adjust for a smooth roll!

Which is exactly why I put their name in the post. They are not perfect!!!! But this one time they were good.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I can assure you we mount AND BALANCE every tire we sell and install on a Spyder. Some shops really do have the tools to do the job right.

I understand that there are SOME shops who DO actually do the right thing, as you & Lew have confirmed; but my point was, how many CAN AM dealers actually do this??

Taking that a little further, since some CAN AM dealers (many? most?? :dontknow: ) simply send the wheels out to one of their local tire shops, and yet throughout this thread and many other similar tire discussion threads, we've repeatedly heard that very few Spyder owners can find any 'local tire shops' that can & do actually have the capability &/or desire to balance Spyder wheels..... So while there might be a few 'exceptions that prove the rule' (& thank you for being one of them! ) there doesn't seem to be too many CAN AM dealers OR tire shops that actually DO balance Spyder rear wheels..... :shocked:

Which leads one on to ask, even if owners do take their Spyders to a CAN AM dealer to get their tires replaced, how many are actually getting their rear wheels balanced?? :dontknow: I'd suggest that unless said owners have specifically sought out someone who REALLY DOES do this relatively easy balancing job, then even if said owners might THINK it's happening when they get a new tire fitted, the actual number of replacement rear tires being fitted AND BALANCED is fewer than many might realise! :banghead:

 

[PinkRosePetal]

I can assure you we mount AND BALANCE every tire we sell and install on a Spyder. Some shops really do have the tools to do the job right.

I'm completelty with you on this. The notion which some folks have, that the wheel balance doesn't matter if the rider is unable to sense the vibration, appears to be based on ignorance of the mechanisms and forces involved.

As an example; a Spyder RT weighs approximately half a ton - considerably more if there's a couple of riders and luggage - so let's assume approximately 1/4 ton on the rear wheel. The ignorant argument is that unless the out of balance force reaches such a level that it can physically shake a 1/4 ton its of no consequence! Really!

When the out of balance force is down it's trying to squish the tyre, when it's up it's trying to lift the bike off the road, when it's forward its pushing the bike, when it's backwards it's pulling the bike rearwards...and everything and all components inbetween are subject to these forces in all angular directions.

Balance your wheel, don't be lazy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTjnA1-LAcI&ab_channel=Dbest1a’sRide

 

[Peteoz]

I can assure you we mount AND BALANCE every tire we sell and install on a Spyder. Some shops really do have the tools to do the job right.

Yeah, my guy does that too, JC. It was only because he had had a breakdown that we went with Plan B......and Plan B worked fine :thumbup:

Pete

 

[AeroPilot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTjnA1-LAcI&ab_channel=Dbest1a’sRide

I have used the HarborFreight stand to balance many bike wheels from a 750 Sportster to a half dozen of the 225R15 rear wheels from Spyders. It works well and just requires patience to wait out about 10 spins of the tire and the 3-4 minute rundown of the rotational inertia.

I like the Centramatic disks just for their quick and easy (I hate to admit to being lazy), and that they accomodate slight changes as the tire wears through its life. Still rollin' smooth:2thumbs:

or this video on the balancer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpJNpOZJTYg

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTjn...’sRide

I get a video unavailable message.