Yesterday I backed my 600 into the garage for the first time in my year of owning it. What a shock when I had a clear, bright, look at my front tires. I have a little over 5k miles on it and the front tires are nearly bald on the outside half of both tires. Shortly after I took delivery of it the dealer tried to straighten my handlebars. The bars were pointing about 3 degrees into a left turn. The mechanic didn't have a handlebar puller so I assume he just adjusted the tie rods to effectively straighten the bars. Not sure if that could cause the problem or not. Anyways, is this extreme tire wear rare or does anybody have any idea how I should proceed with my dealer? If I don't do something, I'll be buying front tires every year. I don't see a way that I can adjust the camber.
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Positive Camber on my Ryker 600 -- Warranty?
- Thread starter Rydernow
- Start date
The front end of our Spyders and Rykers are so lightly loaded that usually even the OE Spec Kenda tires can easily reach 10,000 miles without significant tread wear issues, and a good auto tire will probably triple that if there's no other factors causing excessive wear - so yeah, with just over 5K miles on your Ryker's front tires, I'd guess that there's something wrong with the wheel alignment, camber, or the tires themselves that's causing that?!? :banghead:
What position do you have your front shocks adjusted to?? If you wind them up too high for the load the Ryker with you & all your usual load (pillion, luggage, etc) on them and you'll probably raise the front of the Ryker beyond its ideal ride height and so cause the tires to have excessive positive camber & so wear the outside of each tire.... but if it IS that, the wear pattern is generally a 'smooth' & evenly level wear right across the tread face, albeit just too much on the outside of both tires; or the inside of both if you've adjusted your shocks too low so that you've got excessive negative camber, but you'll usually notice the nose scraping on the ground first if that's the case
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Back too much positive camber, if you gently run your hand along the circumference of a section of tread and then across the tread face, you also generally won't be able to feel any 'saw-tooth' edges on the front, back, or sides of any of the tread blocks. If you CAN feel that 'saw-tooth effect', which is just a raised or sharp edge on any side of the tread blocks, while the opposite side is worn down more & smoothly, it's more likely that your tread wear issue is being caused by incorrect toe in/out; and once again 'generally', I'd be suspecting that as being the cause of your tread wear before I'd be too committed to labelling it definitely as too much positive camber. Simply because very few dealers/Can-Am techs have any real experience, idea, competence, &/or skills in properly aligning Spyder/Ryker front ends, but most can set the static ride height via the front shock adjustment fairly readily & get it reasonably close to 'right'.
So, have you ever had your Ryker aligned by someone widely regarded as being competent at aligning Spyders/Rykers? If not, then maybe that'd be a good first move, immediately before fitting a set of 'proper' auto tires that meet or exceed the load & speed ratings on your Ryker's tire placard.
Unless you're in some European Countries, you usually don't have to slavishly comply to the same nominal sidewall tire size, so you should be able to find a tire that's within about 20mm of the stated width & also only 1 or 2 profile steps up or down, but it will usually pay to try and keep the front tires & the drive tire reasonably close to the same proportional rolling radius, or if you like, keep them within +/- 10 or so % of the standard proportion in 'revs per mile'. The Nanny/VSS etc is really quite able to handle relatively small variations, but anything much over +/- 20mm is likely to prompt some minor but more frequent interventions, so if you want to minimise even just the chance of that happening, try to keep any tire rolling radius change fairly close front to rear. :lecturef_smilie:
That said, I can't recall which end of the Ryker rolls fastest, but I don't believe the front & the drive tires have exactly the same rolling radius or revs per mile, so if you increase the front by fitting a more readily available tire size, you may also need to fit a tire with the same or a similar proportional increase to avoid upsetting the Nanny too much, even if she's only likely to get a little upset - you almost certainly won't cause any 'limp home' incidents or other drastic interventions unless you also hafta modify the guards &/or swing arm to fit the different sized tires!! :thumbup:
Hope that's not all too confusing! :dontknow: . Oh, and I wouldn't expect too much help from your dealer, not only because of the previously mentioned lack of knowledge/skills/competence & even awareness, but also because back when we got a batch of soft compound tires that for some, didn't even last as long as yours have already before they were running on the canvas, the 'BRP Approved' response was pretty much just 'tires are a non warranted wear item, so what do you expect :dontknow: ' and basically they just left us all in the lurch! ! :cus: And THAT's when many of us went to 'the dark side' and fitted some 'proper tires', which have proven over many many 10's of thousands of miles now to last longer, work better in all respects, and are usually a fair bit cheaper & easier to source too!
hyea:
Ps: I guess that sort of wear could also be due worn, damaged/broken, or poorly adjusted steering &/or suspension components too, but given that it's a fairly new machine, I'd still think it's most likely going to be wheel alignment or incorrectly adjusted shocks. :thumbup:
What position do you have your front shocks adjusted to?? If you wind them up too high for the load the Ryker with you & all your usual load (pillion, luggage, etc) on them and you'll probably raise the front of the Ryker beyond its ideal ride height and so cause the tires to have excessive positive camber & so wear the outside of each tire.... but if it IS that, the wear pattern is generally a 'smooth' & evenly level wear right across the tread face, albeit just too much on the outside of both tires; or the inside of both if you've adjusted your shocks too low so that you've got excessive negative camber, but you'll usually notice the nose scraping on the ground first if that's the case
. Back too much positive camber, if you gently run your hand along the circumference of a section of tread and then across the tread face, you also generally won't be able to feel any 'saw-tooth' edges on the front, back, or sides of any of the tread blocks. If you CAN feel that 'saw-tooth effect', which is just a raised or sharp edge on any side of the tread blocks, while the opposite side is worn down more & smoothly, it's more likely that your tread wear issue is being caused by incorrect toe in/out; and once again 'generally', I'd be suspecting that as being the cause of your tread wear before I'd be too committed to labelling it definitely as too much positive camber. Simply because very few dealers/Can-Am techs have any real experience, idea, competence, &/or skills in properly aligning Spyder/Ryker front ends, but most can set the static ride height via the front shock adjustment fairly readily & get it reasonably close to 'right'.
So, have you ever had your Ryker aligned by someone widely regarded as being competent at aligning Spyders/Rykers? If not, then maybe that'd be a good first move, immediately before fitting a set of 'proper' auto tires that meet or exceed the load & speed ratings on your Ryker's tire placard.
Unless you're in some European Countries, you usually don't have to slavishly comply to the same nominal sidewall tire size, so you should be able to find a tire that's within about 20mm of the stated width & also only 1 or 2 profile steps up or down, but it will usually pay to try and keep the front tires & the drive tire reasonably close to the same proportional rolling radius, or if you like, keep them within +/- 10 or so % of the standard proportion in 'revs per mile'. The Nanny/VSS etc is really quite able to handle relatively small variations, but anything much over +/- 20mm is likely to prompt some minor but more frequent interventions, so if you want to minimise even just the chance of that happening, try to keep any tire rolling radius change fairly close front to rear. :lecturef_smilie:That said, I can't recall which end of the Ryker rolls fastest, but I don't believe the front & the drive tires have exactly the same rolling radius or revs per mile, so if you increase the front by fitting a more readily available tire size, you may also need to fit a tire with the same or a similar proportional increase to avoid upsetting the Nanny too much, even if she's only likely to get a little upset - you almost certainly won't cause any 'limp home' incidents or other drastic interventions unless you also hafta modify the guards &/or swing arm to fit the different sized tires!! :thumbup:
Hope that's not all too confusing! :dontknow: . Oh, and I wouldn't expect too much help from your dealer, not only because of the previously mentioned lack of knowledge/skills/competence & even awareness, but also because back when we got a batch of soft compound tires that for some, didn't even last as long as yours have already before they were running on the canvas, the 'BRP Approved' response was pretty much just 'tires are a non warranted wear item, so what do you expect :dontknow: ' and basically they just left us all in the lurch! ! :cus: And THAT's when many of us went to 'the dark side' and fitted some 'proper tires', which have proven over many many 10's of thousands of miles now to last longer, work better in all respects, and are usually a fair bit cheaper & easier to source too!
hyea:Ps: I guess that sort of wear could also be due worn, damaged/broken, or poorly adjusted steering &/or suspension components too, but given that it's a fairly new machine, I'd still think it's most likely going to be wheel alignment or incorrectly adjusted shocks. :thumbup:
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SportsterDoc
New member
Most likely toe-in, rather than non adjustable camber.
Both worn on outside would be from more than the specified 1/16" (<2 mm) toe-in.
Compare distances between inside of wheels at the front to inside of the wheels at the back.
Mine should turn 3,000 miles by the end of the week, with no appreciable/very even wear.
Both worn on outside would be from more than the specified 1/16" (<2 mm) toe-in.
Compare distances between inside of wheels at the front to inside of the wheels at the back.
Mine should turn 3,000 miles by the end of the week, with no appreciable/very even wear.
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
Camber
If the Rykers now have CAMBER adjustment ..... That would be a big change from the way BRP builds front suspensions for Spyders ....and Yes I know it's a different machine ... however they are both built by BRP engineers ..... Mike :thumbup:
If the Rykers now have CAMBER adjustment ..... That would be a big change from the way BRP builds front suspensions for Spyders ....and Yes I know it's a different machine ... however they are both built by BRP engineers ..... Mike :thumbup:
jcthorne
Well-known member
The Rykers do not have camber adjustment. They are fixed pretty close to zero when manufactured.
This bike needs an alignment. You will be hard pressed to get the dealer or BRP to cover the cost of an alignment or replacement tires under warranty. They consider it maintenance. The bikes do not come properly aligned from the factory nor do the dealers (most of them) do it on assembly. Its been this way since the first Spyders came out.
This bike needs an alignment. You will be hard pressed to get the dealer or BRP to cover the cost of an alignment or replacement tires under warranty. They consider it maintenance. The bikes do not come properly aligned from the factory nor do the dealers (most of them) do it on assembly. Its been this way since the first Spyders came out.
SportsterDoc
New member
SportsterDoc
New member
+1
Correct toe needs to be set, not just in relation to the two fronts, but parallel (less toe setting) to rear wheel.
SportsterDoc
New member
+1
However, if there is a record of the dealer "mechanic" adjusting the tie rods due to a handlebar issue, there should be a very strong case.
SportsterDoc
New member
I watched mine come out of the crate and a significant portion of assembly.
The mechanic advised that he would set the alignment...and he did well.
Some folks complain about assembly charges, but the $455 was well earned...especially since the $9,999 MSRP was discounted to 8,212.03.
I am down to about 8/32, but there is no (reasonable) difference in depth between the three rain groves in either front tire.
canamryder
New member
Referring back to post #1. The mechanic did not need a stem puller to fix the crooked handle bars in the first place. My dealer told me how to straighten mine over the phone. Probably a lack of knowledge led to this larger problem. Now YOU? have to buy tires, and go through this ordeal. All this is speculation only if he did mess with the aligned tie rods in the first place.
I might have come into something here. My garage floor has rubber/vinyl interlocking tiles. Today I was pushing the Ryker around before going after the caster alignment. Well, I could hear definite screeking from the front tires. Just like rubber soled shoes on any hard flooring. Wait a minute, me thinks. It can't be this simple !! I get on my f3 and start moving it around and nothing, quiet as a church mouse. Okay, here goes nothing. I adjusted the caster one full turn in and rolled the Ryker again. Quiet ! It is entirely possible that this may be all we need to get the caster alignment close to spec. I'll bet all it would take to experiment yourselves is a couple dozen or fewer peel and stick floor tiles in your garage. Thanks for all your comments to get me going on this.
SportsterDoc
New member
Caster is the angle at which front suspension absorbs a shock.
Camber is tilt of wheel in or out, looking from front.
Toe is the only adjustment on a Ryker
Some toe-in is required to prevent wandering.
Minimal toe-in reduces tire wear.
If you adjusted a tie rod end, how did you know which to adjust, right or left?...or both equally?
Outside edge wear, even on both tires, is excessive toe-in.
Without a laser alignment, best to measure difference between front and rear of front wheels.
The front measurement should be about 1/16th of an inch less than rear.
The trick is to have the fronts parallel in travel to rear, less 1/2 of the toe-in.
Camber is tilt of wheel in or out, looking from front.
Toe is the only adjustment on a Ryker
Some toe-in is required to prevent wandering.
Minimal toe-in reduces tire wear.
If you adjusted a tie rod end, how did you know which to adjust, right or left?...or both equally?
Outside edge wear, even on both tires, is excessive toe-in.
Without a laser alignment, best to measure difference between front and rear of front wheels.
The front measurement should be about 1/16th of an inch less than rear.
The trick is to have the fronts parallel in travel to rear, less 1/2 of the toe-in.
SportsterDoc
New member
Post 1 referenced camber
Post 12 referenced caster
Confirm adjustment was of tie-rod ends?
Post 12 referenced caster
Confirm adjustment was of tie-rod ends?
Yes, I assumed I had excessive toe-in. Very much so on the right side because the tire was worn so badly on the outside half of the tire. The left side wasn't worn quite as bad on the same outside portion. Not knowing how much adjustment was needed I just spun the tie-rods one full turn inward (shortening the shaft). The screeching noise on my vinyl floor stopped when rolling the Ryker back and forth. I also noticed a much improved ride. Prior to the adjustments, I was wandering quite a bit at speed over some not very smooth hwys. Now I'll find something decent to take some measurements with and keep a close eye on further or lesser tirewear.
Attachments
SportsterDoc
New member
That tire is no longer legal.
Suggest a precision alignment before replacing.
Ryker tie-rods are rear of axles, so shortening does move towards toe-out.
Measuring between front is easy. Mine is 48 1/8"
The rear is a challenge, due to (a) fender design, which can be removed and (b) frame is in the way...requiring rigging a caliper.
Suggest a precision alignment before replacing.
Ryker tie-rods are rear of axles, so shortening does move towards toe-out.
Measuring between front is easy. Mine is 48 1/8"
The rear is a challenge, due to (a) fender design, which can be removed and (b) frame is in the way...requiring rigging a caliper.
BajaRon
Well-known member
This is where I'd put my money. Especially given the fact that someone adjusted the handlebar orientation. Most likely by cranking on the tie rod adjusters. You might be able to confirm this simply by looking at the adjusters.
Guessing with the alignment on a Ryker or a Spyder has a high probability of destroing your tires in short order. Not to mention, negatively impacting handling. It is sad when a dealership does things like this. Fix a small problem by creating a much larger one.
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BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
Now that I've viewed the actual tire wear ..... An " alignment " may not be necessary ..... Kenda's have weak construction, at speeds over 40 mph they will balloon in the middle and wear much faster than the rest of the tire ..... What PSI are you using in your tires Front & Rear ????? ......... Mike :thumbup:
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