Please Help Me

[jthornton]

4500 rpm? The clutches start locking up at 3500 rpm, and are fully engaged at 4000...
She needs to get her story straight. :gaah:
And that's right from two BRP reps... :thumbup:

I'm pretty sure SE5 clutch lock up is at 3200 RPM...

JT

 

[Bob Denman]

The point at which they start has always been a bit hazy. :shocked: They come in progressively, and are tight by 4 grand...

 

[BajaRon]

I'm pretty sure SE5 clutch lock up is at 3200 RPM...

JT

I think the full lock-up RPM varies based on loading. In other words, if you're essentially coasting the clutch plates will lock up early. If you're on the throttle the clutch plates will lock up late (like a torque converter).

That is why lugging is so bad for the clutch (and the engine as well). Lugging means you are applying throttle in an attempt to accelerate at an RPM below the power band needed to accomplish the intended increase in speed. (How about that for Geek Speak!). Wow them with words when you don't have facts, I always say.

When your RPM is too low, the clutch on an automatic transmission machine attempts to make up the difference in lack of HP/Torque by slipping. This tends to fry the clutch plates. Do this too much and you've slipped your way into an expensive repair.

That is what the rep meant when she said that the Spyder was not compatible with the application. What she should have said is that the Spyder is not compatible with your riding style. Change your riding style and the Spyder will be perfect for what you are doing.

 

[Bob Denman]

:clap: Well said! :thumbup:

 

[bruiser]

That's why I have the SM5.

Ron, you've been hanging with Lamont to long :roflblack:

 

[jthornton]

I think the full lock-up RPM varies based on loading. In other words, if you're essentially coasting the clutch plates will lock up early. If you're on the throttle the clutch plates will lock up late (like a torque converter).

That is why lugging is so bad for the clutch (and the engine as well). Lugging means you are applying throttle in an attempt to accelerate at an RPM below the power band needed to accomplish the intended increase in speed. (How about that for Geek Speak!). Wow them with words when you don't have facts, I always say.

When your RPM is too low, the clutch on an automatic transmission machine attempts to make up the difference in lack of HP/Torque by slipping. This tends to fry the clutch plates. Do this too much and you've slipped your way into an expensive repair.

That is what the rep meant when she said that the Spyder was not compatible with the application. What she should have said is that the Spyder is not compatible with your riding style. Change your riding style and the Spyder will be perfect for what you are doing.

I should have been more clear, I was speaking about the centrifugal clutch not the clutch controlled by the TCM system. Two clutches does make the SE5 a confusing thing to discuss...

According to the technical specifications in the service manual (I knew I read it somewhere) the SE5 centrifugal clutch speed engagement is 2000 +- 200 RPM and stall is 3200 +-200. I interpret stall to mean locked up. Now the TCM control might be something else... I don't see any technical specification on it.

Edit: more reading in the service manual on the TCM operation and it is described as basically:

disengage clutch
shift
engage clutch smoothly

JT

 

[Pennyrick]

So How say you? Thanks Loved my Spyder Now I morn Dean A Owen

Dean: I came in on the back end of this thread but to ask for help from folks on this site after going through the steps you describe and filing suit is like asking for the electricity to be turned off once you've been sentenced to the electric chair... it's a bit late now.

There are a number of contacts at BRP that members of this site could have offered as help but once you go legal on them... there is nothing that can be done.

I hope your problem gets resolved... but I don't think any help can come from this end.

 

[Motorcycledave]

Did anyone notice.....

No one from California chimed in on this...
Here you would have had a replacement by now and been riding,
our lemon law and the BAR "Bureau of automotive repair "
would have taken care of it, here they
only get so much of a chance then BOOM give the man a bike
or be shut down, but it don't count on a used vehicle

 

[NancysToy]

I'm pretty sure SE5 clutch lock up is at 3200 RPM...

JT

3200 +/- 200 according to BRP's documentation in the shop manual.

 

[greendean]

Here's the thing about the RPM slice of this that confuses me.

1. I have an RS. I use it as a daily driver, in the city. The high RPM is never an issue, because that just means I don't upshift higher than I need to be, i.e. in stop-and-go I ride in first, second, and when I'm lucky, third gear.

Basically, traffic makes absolutely no difference to the Spyder, you just ride it in the lower gears. So what if it's louder? Big whup, I wear a helmet and ear plugs.

2. IIRC, a dealer can hook up the bike to BUDS and see the RPM history, so they know where we shift our bikes. (I've seen earlier threads on this subject). Based only on the above, it sounds to me like the OP's dealer did just that, and saw that the OP was shifting below the recommended levels, i.e. lugging the engine.

Now, that may be a subjective conclusion from the dealer-- is there a technical, BRP-defined definition of HOW MUCH lugging of the engine is enough to void a warranty, I don't know? If not, the dealer could be using this an excuse for poor setup/poor diagnostics. But I guarantee that there exists SOME point where the dealer and/or manufacturer can say, "The rider consistently kept the RPMs too low for too long and inflicted the damage him/herself."

Anyway, without more information, I'm not blaming the OP, and like all Spyderlovers, I wish them all the best. But I must admit this wouldn't be the first time where a rider, either through dealer-induced ignorance or their own error, rode the Spyder at too-low an RPM.

Not including the OP in this category, but my head has smacked more than once from reading the number of Spyder owners who insist, absolutely insist, on riding a high-RPM, low-torque motorcycle as if it was a low-RPM, high-torque motorcycle. :banghead: Ummm, people, the Spyder is NOT a Harley, and no amount of upshifting to higher gears is going to convince our French-Canadian friend that it's a product of Wisconsin.

Good Day The Rpm issue is really not the thing one piece of the puzzle. A shift of thought at best. The owners manual in the one paragraph states to shift
at 3000 rpm and nothing about riding hard. FYI I never rode my machine in a luging manner in the first place. Update the New short block that arrived on Friday was cracked during shipping. Un believable. The never ending spyder repair Happy Mothers day to All you mothers

 

[greendean]

No one from California chimed in on this...
Here you would have had a replacement by now and been riding,
our lemon law and the BAR "Bureau of automotive repair "
would have taken care of it, here they
only get so much of a chance then BOOM give the man a bike
or be shut down, but it don't count on a used vehicle

Washington State Lemon laws are close to California which is why they are getting the 2010 from Nevada. I'm just waiting more day 62 Today.
I have done what is required by Washington Law And BRP is working to resolve this. The real Question is faith in the machine and BRP. The dealer
really does suck in many areas. Yet they have given some effort to help.

 

[NancysToy]

Good Day The Rpm issue is really not the thing one piece of the puzzle. A shift of thought at best. The owners manual in the one paragraph states to shift
at 3000 rpm and nothing about riding hard. FYI I never rode my machine in a luging manner in the first place. Update the New short block that arrived on Friday was cracked during shipping. Un believable. The never ending spyder repair Happy Mothers day to All you mothers

I'm not sure where it says that in the manual...if it does, but shifting at 3,000 will undoubtedly cause clutch damage on an SE. The clutch doesn't lock up until 3,200 +/- 200. Assuming approximately a 1,000 rpm drop after shifting gears, that means shifting at 4,500 or higher is the only reliable thing to do.

 

[greendean]

I'm not sure where it says that in the manual...if it does, but shifting at 3,000 will undoubtedly cause clutch damage on an SE. The clutch doesn't lock up until 3,200 +/- 200. Assuming approximately a 1,000 rpm drop after shifting gears, that means shifting at 4,500 or higher is the only reliable thing to do.

On page 56 under safe operating instructions Title upshifting fromFirst to Second Gear
(In the straightaway , accelerate until the engine speed reaches 3000 RPM
Press the gear selector forward to shift into second gear. you do not have to
release the throttle while shifting with SE5.) I get what you say in the 1 year 9and a half months I rode
never once had I read or was told this information. I usually shifted between 3700 and 4800. The point is
BRP in there manual states as above quote. Still none of this has anything to do with the problems with my
bike there is a vibration in the lower end of the engine / transmission suspect countershaft bearing or possible
crank shaft issues According to Mechanic who is doing the repair. I dont know for sure being as I am not the
one performing the repair.

 

[Woody]

Dean,
My free advice is to forget the old one and have them expedite the new one. If BRP or the dealer offered a new 2010, where is it? If they really wanted to, they could have it shipped to you in a week or less.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[greendean]

Dean,
My free advice is to forget the old one and have them expedite the new one. If BRP or the dealer offered a new 2010, where is it? If they really wanted to, they could have it shipped to you in a week or less.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I agree I dont get the delay she said she had all the numbers and needs to present it to her superior maybe end of next week.
I am so tired of getting my hopes up. I am a positive thinking person generally yet the continual poor communication and unbelievable
BS. boggles my mind. When I managed 5 stores the worst situation in 18 years was 1 week when one of my tech's foot slipped off the
clutch running the customers vehicle into the bench nearly killing me I moved about 5 seconds before impact. I arranged repair and rental car
customer inconvenience 1 week.

 

[ARCTIC]

Sounds to me like they're taking really good care of you if they're offering you a new, year newer machine. Take the 2010 and sell it if you want out.

 

[Buttsy]

Take the 2010 and sell it if you want out.

Was going to be my recommendation for you as well..............you might come out OK in the end? :thumbup:

 

[steve635]

Sounds to me like they're taking really good care of you if they're offering you a new, year newer machine. Take the 2010 and sell it if you want out.

I don't see where he wants out, just wants out of the shop. 62 days is absurd, he's more patient than most, that's for sure. I think the offer of a newer bike is very fair, but as yet it's still just an offer and he's still paying notes on an empty space in the garage.

Like most everyone here, I love my Spyder and haven't had one problem
with it, but that does not mean I have no empathy for those who are not so fortunate. I owned a 2000 Indian motorcycle on which I was tempted to stencil Sunkist in big green letters down the side. I know how he feels, and the worst part was when I complained on the Indian forum and people reacted as though it were my fault. Every manufacturer has a few lemons, how they resolve the owner's problems is what elevates the best. I am very anxious to hear how this is resolved.

 

[ARCTIC]

I don't see where he wants out, just wants out of the shop.

These were the subtle hints that I took that he possibly would like cash and walk:

.....Or cash out
will probably require State Attorney General for resolution 3 to 4 weeks?
.....I really miss the ride and feel like an idiot for buying a BRP product that was such a new concept.

 

[greendean]

These were the subtle hints that I took that he possibly would like cash and walk:

You quote me correctly. They have offered no cash. Only this 2010 rs se5 in Reno which I would gladly accept the
question is when? The latest at the dealer on Sat I received a call while on the 13th hole that the short block they recieved
was cracked. I viewed it on my way home. It had had a terrible fall obvious. Where? UPS? Dealer? I will see what
Martina has to say Today if I'm lucky? maybe by end of this week. Not getting my hopes up. 65 days now.
Dean