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Performance Exhaust and Intake with Dyno Runs
- Thread starter Highwayman2013
- Start date
PMK
Active member
Fortunately, I bought my PV3 from Jamie Long at Fuel Moto. Come spring he wants me to ride up to his shop (100 miles away), so he can ride/tweak the Spyder. I'm confident he'll make some improvements. He's tuned several of my past bikes
He will dyno tune on a rolling road dyno, dyno tune on an eddy current dyno, or simply monitor AFR and ride the bike?
krakum1967
New member
I agree with PMK, the trike should have had a battery reset when they did the changes and prior to the dyno. And I agree with all of the other steps he outlined....
I also see huge advantages to the way that we flash ECU's and how we are able to basically copy tunes from machine to machine. Why I am getting the one done on the RS-S. I learned from past flash work, they do so much more than the tune, they can correct poorly set rev limiters, and to me the most significant change is this. When the person flashed my Yamaha FZ09 two years ago, he outlined that on stock ECU tunes, hp is actually changed from gear to gear. On production street machines it is not uncommon to restict HP in the top gear for instance. So the FZ09 was rated or ranked at 115 HP stock, in actuality in 6th gear, the motor was only pushing 90 HP in 6th gear or limited to that HP level by each gear basically having its own tune. I was told all imported go through this, and all modern machines with the Keihin type ECU tunes the power ratings to each gear. I asked the people dealing with the monster tunes, and was told this is also the case on the Can Am, and they tune the HP to be the same in each gear which also removes these unspoken governors that exist on our machines. When my FZ09 was flashed, I had 135 HP PER GEAR, and I could lift the front wheel in 6 witht he twist of a wrist even at 80 mph...I sold the bike, it scared me after that, and I had my heart attack on the bike (not speed related).
My other point is I find that Dyno tuning is more of a justifiable expense when you are trying to get the most out of a carbureted machine. Modern ECU based machines such as the Can Am "learn" not only the performance standards, but also "learn" how the rider uses the machines and adjusts the tunes accordingly, in other words if you ride with a hotter hand, you are going to get more performance out of the stock ECU because it has "learned" the speed or performance parameters. SO why dyno tune it unless you are establishing a flash? The need for Dyno tuning honestly went the way of the Carburetor, and good riddance to them both.
With the systems like we have, handle the three basics, Intake, Exhaust, and a good Power Commander (with autotune if you can get it), or Power Vision and you really never have to worry about Dynos or paying for expensive dyno runs that only provide you with data you can get by taking your machine to your local drag strip, and checking it by the seat of your ass. The bike will learn to adapt to the changes once you do a battery reset, and make sure you use the correct maps on your tuner, or set up the autotune.
I also see huge advantages to the way that we flash ECU's and how we are able to basically copy tunes from machine to machine. Why I am getting the one done on the RS-S. I learned from past flash work, they do so much more than the tune, they can correct poorly set rev limiters, and to me the most significant change is this. When the person flashed my Yamaha FZ09 two years ago, he outlined that on stock ECU tunes, hp is actually changed from gear to gear. On production street machines it is not uncommon to restict HP in the top gear for instance. So the FZ09 was rated or ranked at 115 HP stock, in actuality in 6th gear, the motor was only pushing 90 HP in 6th gear or limited to that HP level by each gear basically having its own tune. I was told all imported go through this, and all modern machines with the Keihin type ECU tunes the power ratings to each gear. I asked the people dealing with the monster tunes, and was told this is also the case on the Can Am, and they tune the HP to be the same in each gear which also removes these unspoken governors that exist on our machines. When my FZ09 was flashed, I had 135 HP PER GEAR, and I could lift the front wheel in 6 witht he twist of a wrist even at 80 mph...I sold the bike, it scared me after that, and I had my heart attack on the bike (not speed related).
My other point is I find that Dyno tuning is more of a justifiable expense when you are trying to get the most out of a carbureted machine. Modern ECU based machines such as the Can Am "learn" not only the performance standards, but also "learn" how the rider uses the machines and adjusts the tunes accordingly, in other words if you ride with a hotter hand, you are going to get more performance out of the stock ECU because it has "learned" the speed or performance parameters. SO why dyno tune it unless you are establishing a flash? The need for Dyno tuning honestly went the way of the Carburetor, and good riddance to them both.
With the systems like we have, handle the three basics, Intake, Exhaust, and a good Power Commander (with autotune if you can get it), or Power Vision and you really never have to worry about Dynos or paying for expensive dyno runs that only provide you with data you can get by taking your machine to your local drag strip, and checking it by the seat of your ass. The bike will learn to adapt to the changes once you do a battery reset, and make sure you use the correct maps on your tuner, or set up the autotune.
PMK
Active member
PMK
Active member
After reading some of this, I wanted to explain a bit further some of my words.
Regarding dynos, there are various types. Typically Inertia and Eddy Current. Sometimes, the words posted are spot on accurate and other times posted with a bit of, lets say, user understandable slang.
I was guilty of the user understandable slang in some of my posts, not realizing it as I wrote. Proverbially, I knew what I was wanting to suggest, but my words were better used in a group of actual engine tuners rather than an owners group.
To correct myself a bit, I had mentioned Eddy Current Dynos and Rolling Road dynos.
To be slightly more clear, I avoided mentioning inertia dynos, which may or may not have been used by TReal. The inertia dyno is in simple terms a heavy drum that gets accelerated in rpm. The drums mass is the load. This makes it difficult for a pure inertia dyno to do much more than full throttle runs unless other options are possibly added.
Eddy Current dynos also spin a drum. The load induced is electrical input to control the drums resistance to be rotated, and software converts this into the numbers we see.
Here’s where I want to add clarification. As I mentioned I omitted mentioning inertia dynos totally until this post. Discussing Eddy Current dynos. Consider the more you spend when buying typically gets the buyer more capabilities. A simple Eddy Current dyno can be similar to the inertia dyno offering merely WOT run data.
Advanced Eddy Current dynos have a better capability to not only accomplish WOT runs, but can mimic part throttle settings, more similar to what the vehicle experiences when driven. This means part throttle settings which allow a tuner to see how the part throttle setting and applicable load have the igntion, fuel control and even other parameters seen and recorded, to allow small adjustments for better efficiency, finding better roll on power, deceleration sometimes and more. These dynos are very advanced. My error being that I refer to these as rolling road. Typically any dyno that spins a drum is rolling road. I reference rolling road to mean a fully capable, all parameters dyno vs a dyno setup for measuring WOT and peaks, with graphs showing how wide open throttle performance is felt.
One downside of WOT dyno runs, in some cases, to help the engine last longer, when the computer senses WOT, it may retard or limit certain settings. We know BRP / Rotax / Can Am and Bosch limited the Spyders WOT settings via electronics. That said, this is where the sophisticated dynos that can replicate driving can be used to manage all settings, or even see when things such as limited throttle vs selected throttle come into play.
Sorry for my technical inaccuracy about the term rolling road. All the best to those buying these and other aftermarket performance upgrades to their Spyders and Rykers.
Regarding dynos, there are various types. Typically Inertia and Eddy Current. Sometimes, the words posted are spot on accurate and other times posted with a bit of, lets say, user understandable slang.
I was guilty of the user understandable slang in some of my posts, not realizing it as I wrote. Proverbially, I knew what I was wanting to suggest, but my words were better used in a group of actual engine tuners rather than an owners group.
To correct myself a bit, I had mentioned Eddy Current Dynos and Rolling Road dynos.
To be slightly more clear, I avoided mentioning inertia dynos, which may or may not have been used by TReal. The inertia dyno is in simple terms a heavy drum that gets accelerated in rpm. The drums mass is the load. This makes it difficult for a pure inertia dyno to do much more than full throttle runs unless other options are possibly added.
Eddy Current dynos also spin a drum. The load induced is electrical input to control the drums resistance to be rotated, and software converts this into the numbers we see.
Here’s where I want to add clarification. As I mentioned I omitted mentioning inertia dynos totally until this post. Discussing Eddy Current dynos. Consider the more you spend when buying typically gets the buyer more capabilities. A simple Eddy Current dyno can be similar to the inertia dyno offering merely WOT run data.
Advanced Eddy Current dynos have a better capability to not only accomplish WOT runs, but can mimic part throttle settings, more similar to what the vehicle experiences when driven. This means part throttle settings which allow a tuner to see how the part throttle setting and applicable load have the igntion, fuel control and even other parameters seen and recorded, to allow small adjustments for better efficiency, finding better roll on power, deceleration sometimes and more. These dynos are very advanced. My error being that I refer to these as rolling road. Typically any dyno that spins a drum is rolling road. I reference rolling road to mean a fully capable, all parameters dyno vs a dyno setup for measuring WOT and peaks, with graphs showing how wide open throttle performance is felt.
One downside of WOT dyno runs, in some cases, to help the engine last longer, when the computer senses WOT, it may retard or limit certain settings. We know BRP / Rotax / Can Am and Bosch limited the Spyders WOT settings via electronics. That said, this is where the sophisticated dynos that can replicate driving can be used to manage all settings, or even see when things such as limited throttle vs selected throttle come into play.
Sorry for my technical inaccuracy about the term rolling road. All the best to those buying these and other aftermarket performance upgrades to their Spyders and Rykers.
