Overheating issues

[Fjrwillie]

Have 2015 RT with 65K . Had an overheating situation.

Added coolant. dealer said let it run awhile without putting cap on to bleed any air out of the system.

Let it run for quite awhile and was still getting small bubbles up ... Not boiling. temp gauge never moved from 1/2 way. fans coming on. when revved up a bit coolant rose in neck of overflow canister and bubbles still prevalent. Think I let it run at idle for 45 minutes or so

Of course the bike just went out of warranty about 6 weeks ago.

Suggestions.

Willie

 

[trikermutha]

Radiators clogged? Bad water pump? Thermostat?

 

[Possible]

How did you determine there was an overheating problem? Gauge, low level of anti-freeze, poor performance, or something else?
Did you add coolant immediately, or wait for the engine to cool down? How low was it, and how much coolant did you have to add?
Has it had issues in the past?

You used the correct coolant? Mixing coolant types is not a good idea.

Generally speaking, bubbles in the coolant are a bad thing. Were there more bubbles when you revved the engine?

 

[Peter Aawen]

When you say 'small bubbles', how big are you actually talking?? Tiny little things only a couple mm in dia, or something a bit bigger, maybe 8mm plus in dia? Bubble size is quite important in this instance, cos those tiny bubbles could be indicating a leaky gasket/cracked head, while the bigger bubbles just mean you probably added coolant without the engine running & you've got a fairly large pocket of air trapped somewhere in the cooling system that MUST be purged before it causes a leaky gasket/cracked head!! :lecturef_smilie:

If it's the big bubbles that you've got, then try raising the front of the Spyder (maybe put it up on ramps even?! ) and run it for a few 'fan cycles' with the cap off, but do make sure the coolant level doesn't drop enough to empty that reservoir ! If it's getting reasonably cool where you are, you might find it helpful to cover the radiators with a coupla pieces of cardboard, just to block off any cooling airflow & hasten the whole process, cos you need those fan cycles to make sure the thermostat has opened & the cooling system reaches full flow, otherwise you can end up with a big bubble of air trapped behind the thermostat & that can cause all sorts of over-heating issues down track.... expensive over-heating issues!! :shocked:

However, if it's those really tiny bubbles that you've (already) got, and they aren't just a 'random few' but rather a fairly steady stream that could possibly look sorta like a 'light foam', then I'm sorry, but you've already got those 'expensive over-heating problems' and the only reason it's not really over-heating now is that at this stage the leaky gasket/cracked head is small enough that it isn't a major issue at idle speed - that won't last long like that at road speed/working the motor tho!!

Re the 'purging of air' bit, if the ambient temps are fairly cool, it can easily take TWICE as long as 45 mins to purge ALL of those air pockets outta the system, hence the cardboard in front of the radiator thing.

Still, as Possible has already mentioned, can an you tell us a bit more about your initial 'over-heating situation'? What were you doing, & what exactly happened to make you aware of the situation?? :dontknow: Understanding that can help us properly diagnose the bubbles & their meaning now.... but there is (in some circles anyway... ) a well known saying - Big Bubbles, No Troubles.... so if you don't have big bubbles, but rather you have small/tiny bubbles, it's likely that initial over-heating situation did do something nasty, & small bubbles means it's not really sounding great! :shocked:

 

[trikermutha]

In my manual I had to run mine until the fans came on to be sure the thermostat opened. Then fill as needed. This was after I replaced a radiator and drained the system.

 

[JayBros]

The service manual for my '14RT-S says to drain the cooling system by removing coolant tank cap, removing the lower hose on the right radiator and drain the system. When refilling, be certain the Spyder is on level ground with a cold engine and fill the cooling system until the level in the coolant tank is at the Cold mark. Do not install the coolant tank cap at this time, but start the engine and run it until the fans come on. Turn off the engine and when it is completely cold, check the level in the coolant tank and top up to the Cold mark as necessary and, lastly reinstall the coolant tank cap. Be certain you properly install the cap and make certain it is fully tightened.

 

[Fjrwillie]

When you say 'small bubbles', how big are you actually talking?? Tiny little things only a couple mm in dia, or something a bit bigger, maybe 8mm plus in dia? Bubble size is quite important in this instance, cos those tiny bubbles could be indicating a leaky gasket/cracked head, while the bigger bubbles just mean you probably added coolant without the engine running & you've got a fairly large pocket of air trapped somewhere in the cooling system that MUST be purged before it causes a leaky gasket/cracked head!! :lecturef_smilie:

If it's the big bubbles that you've got, then try raising the front of the Spyder (maybe put it up on ramps even?! ) and run it for a few 'fan cycles' with the cap off, but do make sure the coolant level doesn't drop enough to empty that reservoir ! If it's getting reasonably cool where you are, you might find it helpful to cover the radiators with a coupla pieces of cardboard, just to block off any cooling airflow & hasten the whole process, cos you need those fan cycles to make sure the thermostat has opened & the cooling system reaches full flow, otherwise you can end up with a big bubble of air trapped behind the thermostat & that can cause all sorts of over-heating issues down track.... expensive over-heating issues!! :shocked:

However, if it's those really tiny bubbles that you've (already) got, and they aren't just a 'random few' but rather a fairly steady stream that could possibly look sorta like a 'light foam', then I'm sorry, but you've already got those 'expensive over-heating problems' and the only reason it's not really over-heating now is that at this stage the leaky gasket/cracked head is small enough that it isn't a major issue at idle speed - that won't last long like that at road speed/working the motor tho!!

Re the 'purging of air' bit, if the ambient temps are fairly cool, it can easily take TWICE as long as 45 mins to purge ALL of those air pockets outta the system, hence the cardboard in front of the radiator thing.

Still, as Possible has already mentioned, can an you tell us a bit more about your initial 'over-heating situation'? What were you doing, & what exactly happened to make you aware of the situation?? :dontknow: Understanding that can help us properly diagnose the bubbles & their meaning now.... but there is (in some circles anyway... ) a well known saying - Big Bubbles, No Troubles.... so if you don't have big bubbles, but rather you have small/tiny bubbles, it's likely that initial over-heating situation did do something nasty, & small bubbles means it's not really sounding great! :shocked:

The bike was idling on the side of the street while I was taking some pictures. When I returned to the bike the temp gauge was pegged to the top. I immediately shut the bike off and did not proceed to drive it further until I could get some coolant to add. The amount of time could not have been more than 1 or 2 minutes. Before this time the temp gauge was at a steady mid way point. Never did the needle rise and fall at any time when idling or under movement. When we filled the reservoir, the bike had cooled for a couple of hours. We filled it while the bike was running. I was able to ride it home, temp gauge stayed in the middle position the 40 or so miles home.

Today I decided to check out the problem. Removed the cap, started the bike and the bubbles were not like the size of foam or frothy but more the size of 8mm and they came and went away. The fans cycled on numerous times during the 45 minutes of so. After the 45 minutes there were still bubbles still came and went. Never did they seem like steam or what one say like the bubbles of soda just poured into a glass the floating to the top.
If I am correct in reading your post I should elevate the front and run the bike letting the bike cycle thru some fan cycle again. I don't have ramps.

Would a hill serve the same purpose as ramps ??

Am I looking for the fans to cycle on numerous times and there is no indication of any bubbles. ??


Thanks for the response.

Willie

 

[Possible]

How much coolant did you have to add? Any evidence that the coolant boiled over, or was on the ground near the bike?
Have you noticed any drips, or spots of coolant where your regularly park?

 

[Peter Aawen]

You are absolutely correct in that I'm suggesting you should try raising the front of the Spyder & then running it a fast idle for at least a few thermostat/fan cycles to purge any air trapped in the system. :thumbup:

That said, from what you've described about how it happened & what you did, I think you might OK & have escaped those 'expensive over-heating issues'! hyea: The ONLY thing that I'd suggest wasn't EXACTLY the right thing to do was the 'I immediately shut the bike off' bit :gaah: Consider this... if your cooling system is over-heating DESPITE the coolant flowing thru the system & the fans running, shutting the engine off and stopping both of those, even if not quite immediately, is REALLY not such a great idea, cos that will stop whatever little amount of cooling is actually going on, and you are thereby (sometimes, if it's bad enough) increasing the risk of making everything over-heat EVEN WORSE once the coolant is no longer flowing thru the radiators & the fans aren't moving air-flow thru the radiators in order to dispel all that heat! If you ever find your vehicle over-heating, then your best bet/safest course of action is to remove any/all working load you can then either spray some cooling liquid onto the radiator cooling fins; &/or add/increase the cold air flow thru the radiators - but in both instances, KEEP THE ENGINE RUNNING (at a reasonably fast idle, but not load) to maximise the coolant flow & to keep the fans running! :lecturef_smilie:

But from what you tell us , as I said earlier, I think it sounds like you've dodged the bullet, so that lot above is just for your info, and the edification of anyone else who might encounter the same problem in the future. I think you'll be fine using a hill/slope/driveway incline to raise the front of your Spyder a little, or even just lifting or running the front wheels up onto a block of wood or two - you just want to try & get the reservoir cap up a bit so that it's the highest part of the cooling system - it helps get any air bubbles/trapped air pockets out of the system! And if you've got reasonable sized bubbles, as it sounds as tho you do, then yes, give it another 30-45 mins of fast idle with the cap off to see if you can get to a 'no bubbles' stage; but if there's still a few bubbles appearing after doing that, I'd suggest you put the cap on properly & go for a gentle ryde, maybe an hour or so, and keep an eye on the coolant level over the next few rydes. Be aware that if you do that then the coolant level in the reservoir WILL rise (OR at least SHOULD rise ) when the engine is hot, that's what it's designed to do, then it'll be sucked back into the radiator once you shut down & everything cools down over-night/before your next ride!! However, if you're still seeing bubbles now, it might possibly even go above the 'Hot/Full' mark on your gentle ride, blowing any excess out the over-flow, so you need to check the level regularly to make sure that the level doesn't ever drop so much that it causes the reservoir to empty out during or after your ride!

The coolant level in the reservoir shouldn't really EVER go below that Low or Cold mark, even when the engine is stone cold; and if it does, then it's telling you that you either STILL have an air pocket in the cooling system somewhere that expands more than the coolant when it gets hot & so expels too much coolant; or you DO have a leaky gasket or seal somewhere or a cracked head/block problem.... none of which is really all that good! :sour: Still, if you find it's blowing too much coolant out of the reservoir over-flow when hot & sucking back so much that it empties the reservoir when it gets cold, you can always try the 'purging air bubbles process again... and maybe you'll never quite get rid of ALL the bubbles, but if they are 'big' and your engine isn't over-heating, then you'll probably be OK! :dontknow:

Word of warning about Temperate gauges & the temps they show tho, especially 'analogue' gauges - manufacturers often 'damp' their temperature gauges' response so that they rapidly get to about 1/2 way up the scale & then barely ever move after that while you drive/ride, at least, not unless the system has already over-heated & you are at risk of cooking the engine.... when they'll go thru the roof!! This 'damping' serves to stop 'unaware customers' from complaining that their Spyder's temp goes up and down all the time.... and BRP are just like many other manufacturers in this respect! The fact is, your engine & cooling system temp WILL go up & down all the time as the load on it changes & the thermostat & fans cut in & out etc; and any temp right up to the start of the Red or High mark on the analogue gauge is actually still fine, cos it's within the 'normal' range, which is effectively anywhere between about 30°C to 120°C, but shouldn't be much under or over, albeit your coolant might have a higher boiling temp under pressure!! So that analogue gauge pegging itself on the top of the scale isn't necessarily such a drastic 'enf of your engine' thing!! The Nanny will most likely give you an 'over-temp' warning & probably even shut the engine down before you get to the 'melt pistons & destroy engines' stage, but that might not be soon enough to stop it blowing a gasket or maybe cracking a head!! Still, the point is, your cooling system temp WILL & DOES go up and down as you drive & load/conditions change, and any gauge that does not show that happening has been 'damped' to stop you worrying cos the manufacturer believes you couldn't possibly understand that doing that is 'normal', so you really need to just treat the temp shown on your analogue gauge as a 'vague indicator' rather than anything really helpful!! :banghead:

Over to you! :cheers:

 

[Possible]

Just one quick question: Was the fan running when you came back to the Spyder and discovered the gauge in the red?

 

[Fjrwillie]

Just one quick question: Was the fan running when you came back to the Spyder and discovered the gauge in the red?

That i don't remember if it was on.

Willie

 

[Possible]

The reason I asked was if the fan had failed to start/run then the overheating problem could be easily explained.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The bike was idling on the side of the street while I was taking some pictures. When I returned to the bike the temp gauge was pegged to the top.

Were the fans running? If not, that's your problem.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Have 2015 RT with 65K . Had an overheating situation.

Added coolant. dealer said let it run awhile without putting cap on to bleed any air out of the system.

Let it run for quite awhile and was still getting small bubbles up ... Not boiling. temp gauge never moved from 1/2 way. fans coming on. when revved up a bit coolant rose in neck of overflow canister and bubbles still prevalent. Think I let it run at idle for 45 minutes or so

Of course the bike just went out of warranty about 6 weeks ago.

Suggestions.

Willie

The bike was idling on the side of the street while I was taking some pictures. When I returned to the bike the temp gauge was pegged to the top. I immediately shut the bike off and did not proceed to drive it further until I could get some coolant to add. The amount of time could not have been more than 1 or 2 minutes. Before this time the temp gauge was at a steady mid way point. Never did the needle rise and fall at any time when idling or under movement. When we filled the reservoir, the bike had cooled for a couple of hours. We filled it while the bike was running. I was able to ride it home, temp gauge stayed in the middle position the 40 or so miles home.

Today I decided to check out the problem. Removed the cap, started the bike and the bubbles were not like the size of foam or frothy but more the size of 8mm and they came and went away. The fans cycled on numerous times during the 45 minutes of so. After the 45 minutes there were still bubbles still came and went. Never did they seem like steam or what one say like the bubbles of soda just poured into a glass the floating to the top.
If I am correct in reading your post I should elevate the front and run the bike letting the bike cycle thru some fan cycle again. I don't have ramps.

Would a hill serve the same purpose as ramps ??

Am I looking for the fans to cycle on numerous times and there is no indication of any bubbles. ??


Thanks for the response.

Willie

Given the large & bolded bits, I somehow doubt the fans were the issue.... altho I suppose that there could be one of those 'intermittent problems' occurring that resulted in the fans NOT working to create the initial problem, but then leaving them working fine ever since?!?

But I strongly suspect that's not the case here....