SNOOPY
Active member
He's alright, he's just messin' around. I haven't convinced him yet that he needs a Spyder. :thumbup:
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One of the main differences between 2013 and other models
- Thread starter hotglue
- Start date
He's alright, he's just messin' around. I haven't convinced him yet that he needs a Spyder. :thumbup:
sledmaster
Member
Back to the original question.....
Consider this – back when the 2013 STs first came out owners of older GS/RS models looked at how the gaps along the side panels had been blocked off so some of us actually ordered and installed the parts to make our 2008s/2009s/2010s/2011s look like the 2013s.
There were even posts about the part numbers and exactly how to do it. Super easy. I did it to both of my 2008s that now have over 32,000 miles each. On the left side we simply ordered the black cover that goes on top of the oil reservoir, installed a small push dart down on the side of the oil reservoir and lined the inside with insulated foil tape. On the right side you need to get a new deflector piece that mounts into the side panel, it has the holes in it to mount the rubber strip that is the block off for the right side.
So here’s the deal. Closing off those gaps on the 2008s did not make them “hot” like the 2013s. Sure, it keeps some hot air from venting out, but this alone did not make them feel or act like a 2013. My 2008s would run at three bars on the LCD heat display, no more than four. Seemed like it actually helped the engine cooling, hard to believe, but the right side deflector was less restrictive so the air flowed through the radiator better. Instead of routing all of the air from the radiator off to the right side away from your foot, the new deflector let some heat come straight back at your foot. The spyders seemed to run cooler, at least on the heat gauge. I never noticed a difference on the right foot, surprisingly.
We started to look at what other differences there were with the 2013 ST. The catalytic converter was the biggie. Instead of it being mounted internally within the tuned exhaust pipe (outboard of the Tupperware), it was now separated from the tuned pipe and located centrally under the middle of the bike. Now we should all be aware that a CAT does in fact get pretty hot, and having this mass of extra heat in that location is going to output more heat than just the simple tube pipes going to the outboard tuned exhaust.
So the combination of closing off the side panel gaps AND the relocation of the CAT are the most obvious things going on with the 2013 ST. I can tell you that closing off the side panel gaps wasn’t that big of a deal on the 2008s we did it to, kept some heat off the rider but it did NOT create a heat issue like what some of the 2013 owners are experiencing. It would really seem that having that great big CAT where it is would be more of the problem than anything else. That said, it is super easy to remove the black cover on the left side and pull the rubber strip on the right side to open up the gaps on the 2013. Just pull the two side panels and take the two pieces off. The 2008s-2009s-2010s-2011s worked fine without these pieces, so just because somebody said “don’t’ do it” without providing supporting logic isn’t good enough reason not to. If anything it just might let even more heat from the CAT up and out, so one would have to balance rider discomfort with managing interior heat build-up. IMHO.
The third element is the fuel mapping. The 2013 STs seem to get better fuel economy than the previous models. This is most likely from leaner fuel mapping. People were complaining about not getting good enough fuel economy, so it stands to reason the fuel mapping has been tightened up some for better range and economy. The flip side of this is the engine and exhaust will run hotter. Extra fuel is one helluva coolant. Take fuel away and the engine runs hotter, pretty basic. Combine this with closed off side panel gaps and a relocated CAT and we have more heat being generated and being retained under the plastic. IMHO.
Consider this – back when the 2013 STs first came out owners of older GS/RS models looked at how the gaps along the side panels had been blocked off so some of us actually ordered and installed the parts to make our 2008s/2009s/2010s/2011s look like the 2013s.
There were even posts about the part numbers and exactly how to do it. Super easy. I did it to both of my 2008s that now have over 32,000 miles each. On the left side we simply ordered the black cover that goes on top of the oil reservoir, installed a small push dart down on the side of the oil reservoir and lined the inside with insulated foil tape. On the right side you need to get a new deflector piece that mounts into the side panel, it has the holes in it to mount the rubber strip that is the block off for the right side.
So here’s the deal. Closing off those gaps on the 2008s did not make them “hot” like the 2013s. Sure, it keeps some hot air from venting out, but this alone did not make them feel or act like a 2013. My 2008s would run at three bars on the LCD heat display, no more than four. Seemed like it actually helped the engine cooling, hard to believe, but the right side deflector was less restrictive so the air flowed through the radiator better. Instead of routing all of the air from the radiator off to the right side away from your foot, the new deflector let some heat come straight back at your foot. The spyders seemed to run cooler, at least on the heat gauge. I never noticed a difference on the right foot, surprisingly.
We started to look at what other differences there were with the 2013 ST. The catalytic converter was the biggie. Instead of it being mounted internally within the tuned exhaust pipe (outboard of the Tupperware), it was now separated from the tuned pipe and located centrally under the middle of the bike. Now we should all be aware that a CAT does in fact get pretty hot, and having this mass of extra heat in that location is going to output more heat than just the simple tube pipes going to the outboard tuned exhaust.
So the combination of closing off the side panel gaps AND the relocation of the CAT are the most obvious things going on with the 2013 ST. I can tell you that closing off the side panel gaps wasn’t that big of a deal on the 2008s we did it to, kept some heat off the rider but it did NOT create a heat issue like what some of the 2013 owners are experiencing. It would really seem that having that great big CAT where it is would be more of the problem than anything else. That said, it is super easy to remove the black cover on the left side and pull the rubber strip on the right side to open up the gaps on the 2013. Just pull the two side panels and take the two pieces off. The 2008s-2009s-2010s-2011s worked fine without these pieces, so just because somebody said “don’t’ do it” without providing supporting logic isn’t good enough reason not to. If anything it just might let even more heat from the CAT up and out, so one would have to balance rider discomfort with managing interior heat build-up. IMHO.
The third element is the fuel mapping. The 2013 STs seem to get better fuel economy than the previous models. This is most likely from leaner fuel mapping. People were complaining about not getting good enough fuel economy, so it stands to reason the fuel mapping has been tightened up some for better range and economy. The flip side of this is the engine and exhaust will run hotter. Extra fuel is one helluva coolant. Take fuel away and the engine runs hotter, pretty basic. Combine this with closed off side panel gaps and a relocated CAT and we have more heat being generated and being retained under the plastic. IMHO.
flamingobabe
...in the pink (Girls On Spyders)
sledmaster...you are correct.....I don't remember people putting in the enclosed areas on the GS/RS.....but I believe you...but not getting heat out...the Cat and running lean is probably the culprits....but you can't remove the cat and keep warranty....I have 10,000 miles with the engine running lean.....if it blows...I want my warranty to be good....BRP will have to remove my cat
McGone
New member
CAT is different on 2008-2012
The Catalytic converter was changed in the 2013 to being between the swing arm. The CAT convertor is one of the hottest parts of the exhaust system. The original Spyder had the CAT built into the silencer which was mounted on the exterior. The exhaust is much hotter than the water cooled engine. This is one of the differences that make the 2013 RT & ST hotter. :doorag:
The Catalytic converter was changed in the 2013 to being between the swing arm. The CAT convertor is one of the hottest parts of the exhaust system. The original Spyder had the CAT built into the silencer which was mounted on the exterior. The exhaust is much hotter than the water cooled engine. This is one of the differences that make the 2013 RT & ST hotter. :doorag:
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sledmaster
Member
That darn CAT
I suspect the CAT was relocated for three reasons; moving it closer to the engine makes it more efficient for cleaner emissions; regardless of what exhaust is installed, the Spyder still has a CAT and meets EPA regs, meaning aftermarket exhausts are likely now EPA legal; moving the CAT out of the “muffler” allows more volume for silencing, giving us a quieter exhaust.
Since EPA regs must be met, you won’t see BRP removing any CATs. Since they get hot by the nature of their operation I could see more shielding and airflow changes, but the CAT location is likely here to stay. I wonder if anyone has tried ceramic coating one, or if that is even feasible? Would that reduce the heat being radiated from the shell of the CAT? Would it cause the CAT to get too hot and damage the catalyst materials inside?
I suspect the CAT was relocated for three reasons; moving it closer to the engine makes it more efficient for cleaner emissions; regardless of what exhaust is installed, the Spyder still has a CAT and meets EPA regs, meaning aftermarket exhausts are likely now EPA legal; moving the CAT out of the “muffler” allows more volume for silencing, giving us a quieter exhaust.
Since EPA regs must be met, you won’t see BRP removing any CATs. Since they get hot by the nature of their operation I could see more shielding and airflow changes, but the CAT location is likely here to stay. I wonder if anyone has tried ceramic coating one, or if that is even feasible? Would that reduce the heat being radiated from the shell of the CAT? Would it cause the CAT to get too hot and damage the catalyst materials inside?
billybovine
Active member
As per the parts catalog view, the CAT is in the same location on all 2010 to 2013 RT's and 2013 ST's and RS's.
Bob Denman
New member
Not quite... the 991 seiries engine has always had the separate catalytic converter nestle up in front of the muffler...
And the 2010 to 2012 RT models have not had this issue.
The 2013 RS is now using this same configuration, and I don't recall hearing any complaints from their owners about melting parts...
Side cutouts
OK, did about 150 miles of mixed riding today on my 2012 RS and paid real close attention to temps around those cutouts or gaps.
-When riding at speed there is absolutely no heat coming out of the gaps and it almost felt as if the airflow wrapped around those side covers and pushed air INTO the gap.
-When cruising around town there was very slight warm air coming from the gap...barely noticeable.
-When cruising around town and hitting 5 bars and the fan coming on I could feel a nice warm airflow coming out of the gap. Nothing I would say is HOT. Just a warm bit of air flowing onto my knee (I was wearing shorts).
I have to say I doubt that there would be any difference in anything with those gaps open vs. closed.....if anything, MAYBE it would help cool the motor off faster when getting back up to speed....but I'd imagine a minimal difference, if any.
Ride On!:thumbup:
OK, did about 150 miles of mixed riding today on my 2012 RS and paid real close attention to temps around those cutouts or gaps.
-When riding at speed there is absolutely no heat coming out of the gaps and it almost felt as if the airflow wrapped around those side covers and pushed air INTO the gap.
-When cruising around town there was very slight warm air coming from the gap...barely noticeable.
-When cruising around town and hitting 5 bars and the fan coming on I could feel a nice warm airflow coming out of the gap. Nothing I would say is HOT. Just a warm bit of air flowing onto my knee (I was wearing shorts).
I have to say I doubt that there would be any difference in anything with those gaps open vs. closed.....if anything, MAYBE it would help cool the motor off faster when getting back up to speed....but I'd imagine a minimal difference, if any.
Ride On!:thumbup:
Bob Denman
New member
Thanks for that evaluation! :2thumbs:
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