One more time Vibration experiment

[Wildrice]

This experiment involves slowly increasing the RPM's 500 at a time--taking mental note of vibration levels at each 500 RPM increment. Starting at 2000--2500-3000-3500-4000-4500-5000-5500-to 6000 RPM

1. Ride the Spyder to warm it it up.
2. Park the Spyder in a safe location.
3. Place the gear selector in neutral & put your foot on the brake.
4. AS per directions above while in Neutral & foot on the brake---slowly increase the RPM's from 2000 to 2500, continue the same pattern going up 500 rpm at a time to the 6000 rpm range, mentally noting the level of vibration at each increment..

Did anyone else notice a significant increased level of vibration in the 3000--4500 rpm range compared to the other RPM increments including the 6000 rpm??? Let me know if you did or didn't, forum post or private message.

If you performed this experiment & noticed that the belt was turning---please contact a Senior Member on this forum, because you have exceeded the the upper threshold of my skillsets. :yikes::banghead:

Thank you kindly for your feedback,
Darrell or
"Houston, we have a problem" or it takes a worried man to sing a worried song

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: What exactly (Besides vibration), are you looking for? :dontknow:
Every motor or motorized vehicle ever made will vibrate; the only questions are "Where?", and "How much?".
If you want vibration; run your bike down the road at 65mph to 75 mph or so, and let me know if you feel what the drive belt is doing... :yikes:

 

[Wildrice]

:shocked: What exactly (Besides vibration), are you looking for? :dontknow:
Every motor or motorized vehicle ever made will vibrate; the only questions are "Where?", and "How much?".
If you want vibration; run your bike down the road at 65mph to 75 mph or so, and let me know if you feel what the drive belt is doing... :yikes:

I have motorcycle engines that have been balanced---mo vibration at any rpm. It's cheaper to build an engine with very loose specs. It saves the manufactuer money.

Surprise Bob Denman----there are multiple post compalaing about vibration between the 3000 & 4500 rpm range. So you think fixing the problem with a belt tension device is the answer. Let me quote "Sam Winston"from Winston Tires in the 80's. "If that guy was working for me--he would not be working for me.

Engine vibration is cause by an unbalanced engine---matching the weight of each rod & piston & crankshaft with the proper Harmonic Balancer cures the problem.

Q---what am I looking for---the volume of poorly balanced engines chosen to save money by BRP. I've have two different belt stabilizers & the F3's still vibrates. The belt stabilers help mask the oringinal engine balance problem. Bob--count the post's with compalins on vibration & multiply by 10 simply because the Spyders are not on this forum..
You're scaring me Bob :banghead:
Darrell

 

[petegtsv10]

Certain engine configurations inherently vibrate more than others.....even when carefully balanced. I don't have all the facts in front of me, but I do recall that inline sixes are among the smoothest. Obviously, singles and V-twins are among the worst. There are primary and secondary balances that are not addressed via a harmonic balancer alone. I'n not sure how an inline 3-cyl. falls into this notion.

 

[Bob Denman]

I have motorcycle engines that have been balanced---mo vibration at any rpm. It's cheaper to build an engine with very loose specs. It saves the manufactuer money.

No doubt; you can easily make an engine run smoother... but are you willing to pay the cost for it? :dontknow:
Most people won't... nojoke

Back in November, 2012; I test rode an ST Limited... It was a hand-built pre-production unit, and was valued by BRP at a quarter of a million dollars...

 

[Wildrice]

On the assembly line spec requirement

a 10%-20% tighting of allowable specs would require a 1% cost or less increase(wild quesstimate) & 90% of the vibration complaints would disappear. I spent a few years working for tech support for manufacturing companies on devices that had specs in the tenth thousand" range. BRP is pushing Spyders out the door as fast as they can---they will tighten the spec's at the cost of a little more time on the milling machines....it will happen. BRP didn'y invent the 3 cyl engine. There are several mnfg that run vibration free & the purchase cost of some of those 3 cyl vehicles is within the same price range as the Spyder---except they have doors & air conditioning with considerably more weight of mfg parts included. I use the word "harmonic balancer as a generic term to include crankshaft counter weighs, etc BMW & Nissan have a new 88 lb 3cy producing up to 400 hp---(this will Not fit within the BRP budget but I do find it amazing. A Goggle search on 3 cyl engines provide a wealth of information--technology is moving fast--the old addage that there is no substitute for cu in is gone....
That's my story & I'm stickin to it :spyder2:....
Darrell

 

[Bob Denman]

You're probably right... :thumbup:
But how much would that slow down the construction process? :shocked:
Tightening up the specifications for Rotax, would surely have them driving their outside vendors WILD!

For the record: my RT with the 1330 is more than acceptably smooth and quiet! :2thumbs:

 

[nslowmotion]

Vibration

If loose tolerances are pushed out the door for the purpose of saving money and let the vibrations be what they are, HD is in trouble.......:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Wildrice]

You're probably right... :thumbup:
But how much would that slow down the construction process? :shocked:
Tightening up the specifications for Rotax, would surely have them driving their outside vendors WILD!

For the record: my RT with the 1330 is more than acceptably smooth and quiet! :2thumbs:

Some say the same about their F3. I'm guessing you got a Tues-Thurs mfg engine versus those mfg on Mon or Fri Happy is what life is all about--good for you. One thing about mfg specs--if the machinging comes out close to 0.0 deviance it's an easy pass via quality control. I had a SkiDoo snowmobile & I regard the Spyder's a close cousin to snowmobiles & wave runner jet ski's. Both have lots of enviroment area buffers thus I never complained once about vibration while doing an end over end attempt to decend down a hugh gravel pit on snow.:banghead:

 

[Bob Denman]

January 30th, 2014: a Thursday! You're absolutely correct! :clap: :thumbup:

 

[bruiser]

Vibration is inherent in any object with moving parts. I worked jet engines for 20 years. I've seen them destroy themselves from vibration. Yes, the specs on any IC engine can be tightened. Sometimes to the point of being no use. There are too many variables. Engine type, # of cylinders, size, fuel requirements etc. Ever ride in a C123 or C119?

Yes, I do have vibration on my F3S. Yes, it is irritating. And I know that BRP is working on an answer.

 

[nslowmotion]

Vibration

You wanna see vibration, get my wife mad and then just step back and watch the vibration.:lecturef_smilie:

 

[Highwayman2013]

Rotax can't be too bad at making engines if they are used in aircraft, including military drones.

 

[ElmoLucy]

January 30th, 2014: a Thursday! You're absolutely correct! :clap: :thumbup:

Bob, where does one find the spyder's birthdate?

 

[Bob Denman]

It should be on either your vehicle's Title, or the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin... :thumbup:

 

[Tazzel]

I was given a 2015 RT demo to ride for a few hours while my F3 was getting its failed water pump replaced. I rode the RT for about 3 hours and put 100 miles on it and I felt the same vibration as I do on my F3 at about the same rpms.

 

[Bob Denman]

So, you don't think that the extra bodywork on the RT was hiding any vibration? :dontknow:
I guess that's a good thing! :thumbup:

 

[petegtsv10]

This experiment involves slowly increasing the RPM's 500 at a time--taking mental note of vibration levels at each 500 RPM increment. Starting at 2000--2500-3000-3500-4000-4500-5000-5500-to 6000 RPM

1. Ride the Spyder to warm it it up.
2. Park the Spyder in a safe location.
3. Place the gear selector in neutral & put your foot on the brake.
4. AS per directions above while in Neutral & foot on the brake---slowly increase the RPM's from 2000 to 2500, continue the same pattern going up 500 rpm at a time to the 6000 rpm range, mentally noting the level of vibration at each increment..

Did anyone else notice a significant increased level of vibration in the 3000--4500 rpm range compared to the other RPM increments including the 6000 rpm??? Let me know if you did or didn't, forum post or private message.

If you performed this experiment & noticed that the belt was turning---please contact a Senior Member on this forum, because you have exceeded the the upper threshold of my skillsets. :yikes::banghead:

Thank you kindly for your feedback,
Darrell or
"Houston, we have a problem" or it takes a worried man to sing a worried song

Free-revving an engine, without a load, is one of the most destructive things you can do to your engine!! Engine builders will tell you this and so do many owner's manuals. Many modern engines actually have limiters via the ECU so that one cannot rev in neutral or park. 6000 rpm under acceleration (on a warm engine) will do no harm, but 6000 rpm in neutral is a terrible practice!

 

[Wildrice]

engine free reving

Free-revving an engine, without a load, is one of the most destructive things you can do to your engine!! Engine builders will tell you this and so do many owner's manuals. Many modern engines actually have limiters via the ECU so that one cannot rev in neutral or park. 6000 rpm under acceleration (on a warm engine) will do no harm, but 6000 rpm in neutral is a terrible practice!

Please do a google aearch "does free reving hurt the engine" There are several other groups posing this question. Quite a few qualified repsonses say there is no proof of damage provided it avoids the redline..Definitly not part of my experiment since I requested to slowly bring the rpm up to 6000, not 8000.
Darrell

 

[petegtsv10]

Please do a google aearch "does free reving hurt the engine" There are several other groups posing this question. Quite a few qualified repsonses say there is no proof of damage provided it avoids the redline..Definitly not part of my experiment since I requested to slowly bring the rpm up to 6000, not 8000.
Darrell

I took your advice and did a search. After doing lots of reading, I stand by my opinion. There are opinions on both sides of the question, but after evaluating the sources, I still feel free-revving isn't a good practice. I'm not here to hijack your thread, and as it's a moot point since it doesn't matter to either of us what the other does with their own machines. It is somewhat interesting, however, to note that many modern engines (my 2016 Z06, for example) have software to severely limit free-revving.