1551retired
New member
The original battery in my 2010 RT died after only one year. I installed an Odyssey PC680. I also bought the specific charger recommended for the PC680. The Odyssey is still going strong after over 2 yrs use.:yes:
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There were many reasons for the change of the site software, the biggest was security. The age of the old software also meant no server updates for certain programs. There are many benefits to the new software, one of the biggest is the mobile functionality. Ill fix up some stuff in the coming days, we'll also try to get some of the old addons back or the data imported back into the site like the garage. To create a thread or to reply with a post is basically the same as it was in the prior software. The default style of the site is light colored, but i temporarily added a darker colored style, to change you can find a link at the bottom of the site.
Odyssey PC680 or Motobatt MBTX24U
- Thread starter 8LEGS
- Start date
I knew you were, Sometimes my Brooklyn sarcasm gos over peoples heads, There's no malice in my posts.
And as far as Heroes go ; I only have Two,
1, It's a person who falls on a live grenade [pin out clip in the air] to save others,.
2, A sandwich in NYC.
Now if you ask my grand kids who their Hero is, That would be me.:thumbup:
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
HEROES
My heroes not necessarily in order of appearance, you Bob, the other Bob, Randy, Phil's friend the battery Guru, 8legs ( for bringing up this lively topic.........and I apologize to any and all I have ever offended at any time anywhere (I don't want to go to Hell, really).......and 8Legs Pa-leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze do not tell us what kind off battery you bought.....Take that info to the GRAVE............:yikes:........:agree:.....:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::bdh:........Thankyou, Mike..................................................PS...Motobatt
My heroes not necessarily in order of appearance, you Bob, the other Bob, Randy, Phil's friend the battery Guru, 8legs ( for bringing up this lively topic.........and I apologize to any and all I have ever offended at any time anywhere (I don't want to go to Hell, really).......and 8Legs Pa-leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze do not tell us what kind off battery you bought.....Take that info to the GRAVE............:yikes:........:agree:.....:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::bdh:........Thankyou, Mike..................................................PS...Motobatt
Phil
Mod Monster
Question has been asked. It may be Monday.
Phil, Tyler TX- from my iPad3.5 using Tapatalk HD
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
bikeguy
New member
In response to questions regarding amp/hour rating of batteries. First, I'm not a battery expert by any means and don't claim to be. I have had some training and experience working with batteries with the telephone company.
An amp hour simply refers to one ampere current flow for a one hour period or any combination of current flow and time which would equal the same amount. Examples; 1 amp for 1 hour, 2 amps for 30 minutes, 1/2 amp for 2 hours, etc., etc. An amp/hr rating of 16 amp/hr could be 16 ampere current flow for one hour or 1 ampere current flow for 16 hours or 0.1 ampere current flow for 160 hours. It wouldn't seem that it would make any difference which combination is chosen but, in fact, it does. The higher current draws are harder on the battery than the lower current draws. A battery which was determined to be a 16 amp/hr battery at a current flow of 16 amps for an hour would be a better battery than one which was determined to be a 16 amp/hour battery by testing at a current flow 0.1 amp. Unfortunately, there is no standard for determining amp/hour ratings and battery manufacturers seldom tell us what test they used for determining amp/hr rating. This is one reason that amp/hr ratings have been somewhat discredited and cold cranking amps began to be used instead of or in addition to amp/hour ratings. There are other factors as well, such as temperature, humidity, etc.
Cold cranking amps, CCA, also have their drawbacks as a battery quality determination since there are a multitude of variations that can be applied to the test. How cold is cold? Do you measure the amperage available at the first instant of current flow or a few seconds into the test? If it is only for the first instant, is that really relevant to our purposes? Is the battery freshly charged or has it been sitting for a period of time? How long a time and in what ambient conditions? The list could go on.
So what really determines the quality of a battery? I had a good friend who knew a lot more about batteries than I do who simply said to weigh it. More lead means a heavier battery and a better battery. He was talking about wet cell batteries and I'm not sure that applies directly to AGM or Gel Cell batteries but I expect it still is somewhat relevant. And it doesn't take into account the need to reinforce the battery to withstand vibration, the enemy of all motorcycle batteries.
Short of weighing it, I tend to believe that empirical evidence is the final and best gauge of battery quality. Thus, I have no qualms whatsoever in recommending Odyssey batteries because I have had very good experience with them. Nor will I argue with others who recommend other manufacturers based on their experiences. Surely, Odyssey is not the only manufacturer who make good batteries.
Cotton
An amp hour simply refers to one ampere current flow for a one hour period or any combination of current flow and time which would equal the same amount. Examples; 1 amp for 1 hour, 2 amps for 30 minutes, 1/2 amp for 2 hours, etc., etc. An amp/hr rating of 16 amp/hr could be 16 ampere current flow for one hour or 1 ampere current flow for 16 hours or 0.1 ampere current flow for 160 hours. It wouldn't seem that it would make any difference which combination is chosen but, in fact, it does. The higher current draws are harder on the battery than the lower current draws. A battery which was determined to be a 16 amp/hr battery at a current flow of 16 amps for an hour would be a better battery than one which was determined to be a 16 amp/hour battery by testing at a current flow 0.1 amp. Unfortunately, there is no standard for determining amp/hour ratings and battery manufacturers seldom tell us what test they used for determining amp/hr rating. This is one reason that amp/hr ratings have been somewhat discredited and cold cranking amps began to be used instead of or in addition to amp/hour ratings. There are other factors as well, such as temperature, humidity, etc.
Cold cranking amps, CCA, also have their drawbacks as a battery quality determination since there are a multitude of variations that can be applied to the test. How cold is cold? Do you measure the amperage available at the first instant of current flow or a few seconds into the test? If it is only for the first instant, is that really relevant to our purposes? Is the battery freshly charged or has it been sitting for a period of time? How long a time and in what ambient conditions? The list could go on.
So what really determines the quality of a battery? I had a good friend who knew a lot more about batteries than I do who simply said to weigh it. More lead means a heavier battery and a better battery. He was talking about wet cell batteries and I'm not sure that applies directly to AGM or Gel Cell batteries but I expect it still is somewhat relevant. And it doesn't take into account the need to reinforce the battery to withstand vibration, the enemy of all motorcycle batteries.
Short of weighing it, I tend to believe that empirical evidence is the final and best gauge of battery quality. Thus, I have no qualms whatsoever in recommending Odyssey batteries because I have had very good experience with them. Nor will I argue with others who recommend other manufacturers based on their experiences. Surely, Odyssey is not the only manufacturer who make good batteries.
Cotton
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
BATTERY QUESTIONS
thankyou, BIKEGUY for your input on this topic.....it sounds well informed and thoughtout....and what I have deduced is this.....It's the same as the OIL controversy because of the 200 or so variables coming up with an accurate / honest answer is a crapshoot at best....on the OIL as long as you have some in the spyder you are better off......and the Battery ...it's also best to have one of those too.....it doesn't matter what.......Mike....:thumbup:
thankyou, BIKEGUY for your input on this topic.....it sounds well informed and thoughtout....and what I have deduced is this.....It's the same as the OIL controversy because of the 200 or so variables coming up with an accurate / honest answer is a crapshoot at best....on the OIL as long as you have some in the spyder you are better off......and the Battery ...it's also best to have one of those too.....it doesn't matter what.......Mike....:thumbup:
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Phil
Mod Monster
Reply from an expert
The friend that I am quoting here IS a battery expert. He took time from his busy schedule to write this short piece that by his side words to me, only begins the story. But it does have valuable information. Sorry--- he will offer no opinions on battery brands in public because he builds battery monitoring systems for all battery manufacturers. So......
There are a lot of factors re: battery construction/power delivery so rather than get into that realm I will relate an actual example to illustrate my personal belief. What I find interesting in the battery world is the reliability expected from hostile environments. The greatest cause of battery failure is typically human lack of knowledge/abuse/neglect, thus we look for technology to make up for our neglect of proper management. Batteries self discharge. Leaving a battery in an undercharged state is one of the biggest no-no’s as it accelerates plate deterioration over time. In the data center world batteries are rated at 77 degree F. As a generality, for every 10 degree C rise in the work environment, battery life is halved. Depending on usage this has some extension to the motive power battery. How many SeaDoo’s/boats/motorcycles/atv’s are left in the heat without charge and then expected to perform after being left in an under charged state for weeks or months. This abuse over time will accelerate a batteries demise. (Why didn’t it last 5 years like my car???)
Actual Case Example:
When the pure lead technology became available for market, we were contracted to monitor the pure lead AGM technology in telco cellsite environments for a particular client. (Aside…the problem with pure lead is that it is so soft which is why manufacturers typically make the plates a lead alloy with Calicum or Antimony…recycling of batteries cannot truly recreate a pure lead so most of the time they are made of virgin lead = more expensive.) The outdoor telco cabinets were exposed to severe temperature deviations and frequent power outages in the Florida/Gulf area. When Katrina came thru the batteries under test were left fully discharged and left at full discharge for 3 weeks. (no generators) Whereas a normal AGM (not pure lead) would have been compromised by being left in a full discharged state, the pure lead under test recovered to almost 100% of capacity which is a testimony to the ability of the technology to handle abuse which translates to longer life.
This particular battery has a thin plate design, which means more reactive surface area in a given container size. More surface area means more reactive surface area for chemical reaction means greater ability to deliver critical cranking amps in 3 – 5 seconds than a battery with less surface area. Typical lead acid motive power batteries have thicker plates to withstand the vibration but the plate separators on this battery are under compression supporting the thin plates. Weight is not a good indicator, as there could be very few plates of very thick design and be very heavy but is limited in capacity and delivery over time.
The pure lead design allows for deeper discharges (ancillary loads) because of its ability to resist damage and still recover capacity.
The friend that I am quoting here IS a battery expert. He took time from his busy schedule to write this short piece that by his side words to me, only begins the story. But it does have valuable information. Sorry--- he will offer no opinions on battery brands in public because he builds battery monitoring systems for all battery manufacturers. So......
There are a lot of factors re: battery construction/power delivery so rather than get into that realm I will relate an actual example to illustrate my personal belief. What I find interesting in the battery world is the reliability expected from hostile environments. The greatest cause of battery failure is typically human lack of knowledge/abuse/neglect, thus we look for technology to make up for our neglect of proper management. Batteries self discharge. Leaving a battery in an undercharged state is one of the biggest no-no’s as it accelerates plate deterioration over time. In the data center world batteries are rated at 77 degree F. As a generality, for every 10 degree C rise in the work environment, battery life is halved. Depending on usage this has some extension to the motive power battery. How many SeaDoo’s/boats/motorcycles/atv’s are left in the heat without charge and then expected to perform after being left in an under charged state for weeks or months. This abuse over time will accelerate a batteries demise. (Why didn’t it last 5 years like my car???)
Actual Case Example:
When the pure lead technology became available for market, we were contracted to monitor the pure lead AGM technology in telco cellsite environments for a particular client. (Aside…the problem with pure lead is that it is so soft which is why manufacturers typically make the plates a lead alloy with Calicum or Antimony…recycling of batteries cannot truly recreate a pure lead so most of the time they are made of virgin lead = more expensive.) The outdoor telco cabinets were exposed to severe temperature deviations and frequent power outages in the Florida/Gulf area. When Katrina came thru the batteries under test were left fully discharged and left at full discharge for 3 weeks. (no generators) Whereas a normal AGM (not pure lead) would have been compromised by being left in a full discharged state, the pure lead under test recovered to almost 100% of capacity which is a testimony to the ability of the technology to handle abuse which translates to longer life.
This particular battery has a thin plate design, which means more reactive surface area in a given container size. More surface area means more reactive surface area for chemical reaction means greater ability to deliver critical cranking amps in 3 – 5 seconds than a battery with less surface area. Typical lead acid motive power batteries have thicker plates to withstand the vibration but the plate separators on this battery are under compression supporting the thin plates. Weight is not a good indicator, as there could be very few plates of very thick design and be very heavy but is limited in capacity and delivery over time.
The pure lead design allows for deeper discharges (ancillary loads) because of its ability to resist damage and still recover capacity.
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
BATTERY EXPERT / GENIUS
Sorry Phil, but I don't see an answer to the question......If you or someone else does please enlighten me.??? Mike....Thanks
Sorry Phil, but I don't see an answer to the question......If you or someone else does please enlighten me.??? Mike....Thanks
Ga Blue Knight
New member
Now now, will all you Yankees please behave!
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
THE BATTERY CONTROVERSY
Roger, I think this is still clear as MUD....That being said......Good News.....You can now buy the Not Best Battery for $ 84.99 + $ 9.99 shipping......E-BAY # 251124596426........Mike
Roger, I think this is still clear as MUD....That being said......Good News.....You can now buy the Not Best Battery for $ 84.99 + $ 9.99 shipping......E-BAY # 251124596426........Mike
Big Arm
New member
:thumbup: :roflblack:
Phil
Mod Monster
Hey Mike----
As to the root question... He really didn't answer it directly. He told me off line that he couldn't since he works with so many different manufacturers. He's very afraid to favoritism and I respect him for that. But I'LL say that he has several bikes and all of them have a battery that starts with an 'O'. Sorry for e shroud of mystery that even makes him sound made up, but trust me, he he a recognized expert in the large battery world (telcos, cellular, military, etc.). His company has designed technology that can monitor and trend the health of individual cells in a giant farm of batteries, to the point of predicting failure times.
There is a site that does a pretty good job of describing the various battery types, chemistry, CCA, CA, RA, AH, etc. --- http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html. I've read a few sites now and what my friend has written. One of THE main things to press toward longevity is maintaining the battery. I was surprised how many times ere is a mention of keeping it charged. I didn't realize how much chemical degradation happens when a charge goes away! I parked Darth last night after a short ride and unconsciously plugged in the tender!
I agree that it is somewhat like declaring what the best beer is (Tiger by the way). And the fact is that all batteries WILL fail at some time. Add harsh environments like heat and vibration, and we're asking for problems, but it is a calculated ask. Keep it charged. Tighten all battery connections and make sure they are clean. That's pretty much all you can do.
I did find this little thing.... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0029VY4G4/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00
It's sitting on my bench. I'll let you know....
Phil, Tyler TX- from my iPad3.5 using Tapatalk HD
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BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
YOUR ARTICLE
Phil, nice work and I mean that. I read the "battery stuff" article twice...When the author got to "when buying a new Battery" look for one with the highest amp/hour rating.....Odyssey = 16 A/H, Motobatt = 25 A/H....So did you select the wrong article ?...MikeHey Mike----
As to the root question... He really didn't answer it directly. He told me off line that he couldn't since he works with so many different manufacturers. He's very afraid to favoritism and I respect him for that. But I'LL say that he has several bikes and all of them have a battery that starts with an 'O'. Sorry for e shroud of mystery that even makes him sound made up, but trust me, he he a recognized expert in the large battery world (telcos, cellular, military, etc.). His company has designed technology that can monitor and trend the health of individual cells in a giant farm of batteries, to the point of predicting failure times.
There is a site that does a pretty good job of describing the various battery types, chemistry, CCA, CA, RA, AH, etc. --- http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html. I've read a few sites now and what my friend has written. One of THE main things to press toward longevity is maintaining the battery. I was surprised how many times ere is a mention of keeping it charged. I didn't realize how much chemical degradation happens when a charge goes away! I parked Darth last night after a short ride and unconsciously plugged in the tender!
I agree that it is somewhat like declaring what the best beer is (Tiger by the way). And the fact is that all batteries WILL fail at some time. Add harsh environments like heat and vibration, and we're asking for problems, but it is a calculated ask. Keep it charged. Tighten all battery connections and make sure they are clean. That's pretty much all you can do.
I did find this little thing.... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0029VY4G4/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00
It's sitting on my bench. I'll let you know....
Phil, Tyler TX- from my iPad3.5 using Tapatalk HD
MikeinGA
New member
What is wrong with the Yuasa battery
The Yuasa YTX24HL-BS battery has good specs.:
12 Volt, 21 amp-hour, 350 cold cranking amps, high performance maintenance-free battery Totally sealed and spill-proof - all acid is absorbed in special plates and absorbed glass mat separators
No need to ever add water Advanced lead-calcium technology hold its specific gravity more than 3 times longer than conventional batteries
Spill-proof design means virtually no possibility of leaks (after proper activation and cycling)*
Advanced lead-calcium technology pumps up starting power
Sulfation retardant dramatically reduces battery-killing plate sulfation
Long lasting which means Yuasa's High Performance Maintenance Free batteries will last up to three times longer than conventional batteries
Exceptional resistance to vibration makes Yuasa the most reliable battery on the market today
Up to 30% more cranking amps thanks to a radial grid design and additional plates
This is the battery that was in the my 2011 RS-S SE5 from the factory and they cost about $100.00 shipped form Amazon.com. and there made in the USA.
Mike
The Yuasa YTX24HL-BS battery has good specs.:
12 Volt, 21 amp-hour, 350 cold cranking amps, high performance maintenance-free battery Totally sealed and spill-proof - all acid is absorbed in special plates and absorbed glass mat separators
No need to ever add water Advanced lead-calcium technology hold its specific gravity more than 3 times longer than conventional batteries
Spill-proof design means virtually no possibility of leaks (after proper activation and cycling)*
Advanced lead-calcium technology pumps up starting power
Sulfation retardant dramatically reduces battery-killing plate sulfation
Long lasting which means Yuasa's High Performance Maintenance Free batteries will last up to three times longer than conventional batteries
Exceptional resistance to vibration makes Yuasa the most reliable battery on the market today
Up to 30% more cranking amps thanks to a radial grid design and additional plates
This is the battery that was in the my 2011 RS-S SE5 from the factory and they cost about $100.00 shipped form Amazon.com. and there made in the USA.
Mike
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
YUASA BATERY
I don't recall anyone saying/claiming the Yuasa has something wrong with it ?????......Mike
Phil
Mod Monster
Truuuuuuuuuuuue. I agree with the writer that AH is A factor. But it isn't the only factor. We have to balance AH with overall ruggedness, internal resistance ( how fast it will discharge with nothing connected), high temp rating, CCA, etc.
When we were at Spyderfest, I wished for more AH when I was running the lights without charging the battery. But at the end of the day, I used old techniques to stretch it, and learned a few new ones. Like I didn't realize until Scotty pointed it out, that the alternator does relatively no good when it is idling. Not until it gets >3000rpm will it actually help. I also learned that on the SE5, you can have enough power to start the bike, but no enough to get it to go into gear!!! And then it will throw codes. And then you have to wait for it to clear. Even with those two items, now that I know... I can work around them in the future when I fire up all of Darth's bling for a show.
So yes.... maximum AH in a package size that works is VERY important, but it is not the only factor, especially on Spyders.
Phil, Tyler TX- from my iPad3.5 using Tapatalk HD
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