O2 sensor eliminator and Hindle results

[Pete Denzer]

Just finished installation of Evoluzione O2 eliminator in an effort to cure low-end and light throttle spittiness experienced with Hindle muffler and Evoluzione air filter in unmodified OEM airbox.

Installation was not difficult as directions were clear. Disconnected battery as per instructions to allow ECU to reset.

Of course, it started to rain just as I was buttoning things up in garage so I am unable to report performance results. Needless to say, I will be driving on a closed course for competition purposes only.

But I will say this: Revving it in garage sounded a lot less spitty, even when not fully warmed up. Idle was steadier, rock solid at 1350-1400 rpms, same as stock air filter and muffler. Without the O2 eliminator idle was not as steady and went as high as 1450 and as low as 1300.

I think I'm on the right track, thanks to Ken's patient explanation of how the eliminator works when I phoned in my order. Aparently the O2 sensor leans out the mixture but only works at lower rpms and light throttle openings. The stock muffler has enough back pressure to not be affected that much by it, and it is so quiet that any spits and pops are muted.

But put on a louder, freer-breathing muffler and the low-speed mixture is not only leaned out, but the spits and pops are much more evident. Eliminating the O2 sensor is akin to unplugging the mixture screw on a Keihn CV carburetor and running it out a little bit, and maybe raising the needle a notch.

At larger throttle openings and higher rpm the mixture is rich enough that the Hindle pulls like gangbusters. Makes me wonder if it's actually too rich for the stock muffler,

I am encouraged by the results so far, will offer complete track test when weather conditions allow.

I can hardly wait.

 

[Magic Man]

Eliminating the O2 sensor is akin to unplugging the mixture screw on a Keihn CV carburetor and running it out a little bit, and maybe raising the needle a notch.

Nope :gaah:

MM

 

[Stuart49]

Pete:

I just received my unit from Ken and will install tomorrow. My Spyder now has about 13,000 miles. I can remember spitting and 'hiccups' from at least a year ago, way before I installed the Leo Vince muffler. Now it seems a bit worse, especially once the engine is really warmed up, after a good hiway ride, etc. The more I read these posts the more I am convinced that leanness causes this, and the freer muffler only makes it worse.

Looking forward to a test ride tomorrow.

Stuart

 

[ptoemmes]

Here's what I have gathered from Ken and others in post across two forums.

1) The Hindle does not flow all that better than stock. Sounds better. Looks better. But the flow was purposefully meant to be close to stock for plug-n-play purposes. BTW - this is not a bad thing.

2) If I have interperpreted what Ken has told me then in open loop mode - essentially ECU table lookup - there is enough headroom in the tables to deal with a higher flowing air filter and pipe - within reason.

3) In closed loop where the O2 sensor (or eliminator) is used as input by the ECU for fuel management that is quite lean and really is were the O2 eliminator comes into play. But some have not replaced the O2 sensor with aftermarkt exhaust and not had a problem. I do not know if these people have also done a free flowing air filter though.

4) I am in the camp that anecdotal evidence shows that unpluging the battery for 20-30 mintues seems to do something...so do it. Several schematic scanners cannot figure out why that should be the case though.

5) If you continue to have a probelm then the "next step" is likley to put the O2 sensor back in and try a Two Bros Juice Box with default settings for the Spyder from Two Bros or the settings NMN has recently provided Lamonster. If you get that that point - yes - buy the JB from NMN.

Pete

 

[Firefly]

I installed the O2 mod as one of my first 'performance' mods. It works as advertised - no more sputter on the low end.

For smoother and more power across the entire band you need to get more fuel into the system. Currently there are 2 ways of doing this ----- Juice Box or Ken's fuel pressure/race intake system.

Both run about the same price, with the Juice Box being a bit less if you do the O2 Mod/Race System/Fuel Mod/pressure Gage.

I can't say how the JB setup works, but as I understand it they set it from the factory to match up with their pipes. I'm not sure if its standard programming handles something like the race airflow or if you need custom programming done.

I can say that with my setup: O2 Mod, Fuel Pressure Mod, Race Air system/Cold-air intake hoses and vents - that my Spyder absolutely screams. I rode a stock Spyder awhile ago and couldn't believe how much of a dog it felt like.

Warning: The race air intake is LOUD.

 

[ataDude]

... I can't say how the JB setup works, but as I understand it they set it from the factory to match up with their pipes. I'm not sure if its standard programming handles something like the race airflow or if you need custom programming done....

The Juice Box is easily adjustable just by pressing a few buttons.

.

 

[ptoemmes]

You definitley need to be specific whether you are talking about a drop in (to the stock air box) high flow air fliter or Ken's Race Air Intake system which eliminates the stock air box.

It's the Race Air Flow plus higher flowing pipe plus O2 eliminator that Ken's fuel pressure modifier was designed for.

That's not to say the JB may not also have a role to play in the "upper end" arrangement, but for sure over my head to comment.

Pete

 

[Pete Denzer]

Test ride

7 pm, 80 degrees, muggy after showers passed through, backroads in Eastern Panhandle of WV still damp in spots. Wearing half-shell helmet (usually wear modular or full-face) so I can hear engine and Hindle/O2 eliminator results.

Low speed driveability definitely improved, better idle, temp stays at three bars throughout ride, creeps up to five bars during extended idle at end of ride while I open gate to yard and instruct dogs to "sit-stay" while I role in and close gate behind me.

Less surge in lower end of powerband encourages short-shifting, which I experiment with and find that anything below 3000 rpm is not where I want to be, probably more to do with state of tune and short stroke engine. No sign of over rich condition, very low end of powerband still a little lean but much improved. Might improve gas mileage as lower rpms are doable.

The Hindle improves top-end power, according to the butt dynometer, and that is unaffected by the O2 eliminator.

Where lean condition still manifests itself is low rpm upshifts where I back off throttle as though I am shifting with a manual clutch (BTW, it's an SE5) rather than my automatic; at that point there is an occasional quick sputter, a single hiccup, but this is something I already have learned not to do, I now shift without backing off the gas.

In other words, you can make the engine spit very slightly if you try. While I have owned bikes that had idiot-proof FI, this is not one of them. I'll have to try to not be an idiot.

IMO the O2 eliminator is worth the $90 price and the effort of installation for those of us who aren't going to full-race air filters, Juice Boxes, fuel pressure increase, etc.

 

[burg650]

I have the Hindle, Ken 02 and drop in air filter and do not feel any difference. I did them early when I got my Spyder ( only 300 miles) and can not tell if they all made any difference, the only thing I can say is that my other Spyder friend who lives 4 blocks from me hears me when I leave my house to head to him and when we ride he is about 10 car behind.

 

[Firefly]

The Juice Box is easily adjustable just by pressing a few buttons.

.

I believe those are only minor adjustments - they do the 'big' programming at the factory. Correct me if I'm wrong on this - but to really get it working best they would need to program it to your exact bike and mods.

 

[Spydr in KS]

1) The Hindle does not flow all that better than stock. Sounds better. Looks better. But the flow was purposefully meant to be close to stock for plug-n-play purposes. BTW - this is not a bad thing.

Love the sound of my Hindle but can't say I have noticed any other differences. Butt feels the same and temps running same as usual.

 

[prodrag69]

hindle

well not to steep on any toes but i have herd a few bad things about the hindle, with the two brothers on average you get more power, but thats with the header to, not just the slip on...... bc it made a big dif. on my bike.... they run low14s to high13s stock, mine runs mid 12s depending on the tracktion:roflblack::spyder: with the mods that i did, im looking into internel work now and getting info a turbo chargers also, theres a thread about that....

 

[Lamonster]

I've run with and without Ken's o2 sensor eliminator and on my Spyder it was running too fat, the Spyder would gurgle and low rpm's as if the plugs were ready to foul. My buddy Ron had the same pipe setup as I did and his ran fine without it, that's when I went back to the stock o2 sensor.

If you want to do it right just get the Juicebox.

 

[Pete Denzer]

What's odd is the wide range of results from identical performance mods, it's as though no two Spyders are the same.

 

[ataDude]

I believe those are only minor adjustments - they do the 'big' programming at the factory. Correct me if I'm wrong on this - but to really get it working best they would need to program it to your exact bike and mods.

Consider yourself corrected... wrong. The factory presets match up with the TBR exhaust and stock intake. You can change the settings to fit whatever you have. Keep in mind, all adjustments are to enrichenen the fuel mixture... no leaning. You can never set it below the equivalent of the stock Spyder FI mapping.

.

 

[Firefly]

Consider yourself corrected... wrong. The factory presets match up with the TBR exhaust and stock intake. You can change the settings to fit whatever you have. Keep in mind, all adjustments are to enrichenen the fuel mixture... no leaning. You can never set it below the equivalent of the stock Spyder FI mapping.

.

But there has to be a limit to the amount of adjustment doesn't there? Or can you re-calibrate your 'base' setting?

Basically I'm wondering if you can get enough adjustment out of it, no matter how much air you cram into the intake?

What if the dial only goes to 10 and you need 11?

It seems that many have said they are running on the Maximum setting already - so what if I was to add even more air coming in?

Can you tell them your current setup and have them set it more specifically for it?

What happens if someone puts it on a stock Spyder? Do they have warnings about that?

 

[prodrag69]

the two brothers juice box should give you all the fuel you need, unless you do internal work or a power adder.........

 

[ataDude]

But there has to be a limit to the amount of adjustment doesn't there? Or can you re-calibrate your 'base' setting?

Basically I'm wondering if you can get enough adjustment out of it, no matter how much air you cram into the intake?

What if the dial only goes to 10 and you need 11?

It seems that many have said they are running on the Maximum setting already - so what if I was to add even more air coming in?

Can you tell them your current setup and have them set it more specifically for it?

What happens if someone puts it on a stock Spyder? Do they have warnings about that?

.
Base = 0 (stock fuel mapping). There are five different functions to adjust from 0 to 8.

Clicky here to read the instructions: http://www.twobros.com/Cust_Service/Install_Inst/008-229_JuiceBox_Inst.pdf

BTW, the JB is really not made by TBR... it's made by Dobeck Performance and just branded for TBR as the JuiceBox. I ran the equivalent 7-8 years ago ("Fuel Nanny") on a VTX-1800C. It worked well then... as well as now. I also believe the JB to be a generic Dobeck device used on many bikes except with wiring harness connections to fit the Spyder.

I would prefer a Power Commander III which allows for more adjustments (richer and leaner by fairly narrow RPM bands) but it is not made for the Spyder... at least yet.

And, I'm not running max on any of the settings with dual-side, free-flowing exhaust and stock air filter. I did run several modes richer with the race air flow system (before I removed it due to intake noise):

Mode 1: Not used on the Spyder
Mode 2: 3.0
Mode 3: 4.5
Mode 4: 3.0
Mode 5: 6.0
Mode 6: 5.0


.

 

[prodrag69]

ya i would like more adjustments but for the basic modes its ok....

 

[Firefly]

.
Base = 0 (stock fuel mapping). There are five different functions to adjust from 0 to 8.

Clicky here to read the instructions: http://www.twobros.com/Cust_Service/Install_Inst/008-229_JuiceBox_Inst.pdf

BTW, the JB is really not made by TBR... it's made by Dobeck Performance and just branded for TBR as the JuiceBox. I ran the equivalent 7-8 years ago ("Fuel Nanny") on a VTX-1800C. It worked well then... as well as now. I also believe the JB to be a generic Dobeck device used on many bikes except with wiring harness connections to fit the Spyder.

I would prefer a Power Commander III which allows for more adjustments (richer and leaner by fairly narrow RPM bands) but it is not made for the Spyder... at least yet.

And, I'm not running max on any of the settings with dual-side, free-flowing exhaust and stock air filter. I did run several modes richer with the race air flow system (before I removed it due to intake noise):

Mode 1: Not used on the Spyder
Mode 2: 3.0
Mode 3: 4.5
Mode 4: 3.0
Mode 5: 6.0
Mode 6: 5.0


.

Okay - so I read the instructions and I think I get how it works now. From other posts it sounded like people were just selecting between modes 1-6 and that was it.

From what the instructions state it seems you program a level for each of the various 'modes' (2,3,4) and then 5 and 6 are used to set the 'start point' of fuel increase. Where the 2,3,4 settings are set the AMOUNT of increase for their respective modes (acceleration, full throttle, cruising).

So all the modes (2,3,4) work in conjunction with each other - right?