Not at all. Octane and rev limit have no relation. Run 91 (or 93 ok too) and pick your limiter.
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O M G - Monster Fuel Inj Rocks! Flashed ECU!
- Thread starter fatboy
- Start date
Not at all. Octane and rev limit have no relation. Run 91 (or 93 ok too) and pick your limiter.
aklim
New member
What does the ECM have for knock retard?
What does increasing the rev limit do? IOW how high can I spin it till the torque curve drops?
Spyd_Piper
New member
The spyder setup has knock sensors for knock control. (as any automobile) These feedback an AC signal to ecu to interpret levels of knock.
Increasing the rev limit lets your engine rev higher. (the engine still makes great power and pulls to 8600 before any significant power drop above this) Revving higher extends each gear. (ALL motorcycles have rev limits well above there peak horsepower point)
Torque falls off after peak torque point. (as with any engine) On the spyder (stock engine internals) this is claimed at 5000rpm. (But I think its more like 6000rpm after flash) But if your confusing torque vs horsepower, peak horsepower is claimed at 7250rpm. I estimate its closer to atleast 7600 after reflash. The right setup could even hold peak up to 8250.
aklim
New member
Not trying to call you out or be a jerk but the reason I ask is because I want to be sure that if push came to shove and we had to use some crummy 87 octane, the engine wouldn't detonate and wasn't sure what they have for spark retard.
Does that affect what point we shift at? IIRC, it was recommended I upshift at 2500-3000.
Very interesting. Just a question. On a 17 F3 Limited, what does your dyno say I can get if I run 91-93 octane only in the streetable range?
Final question. I can't seem to find a specific set of removal instructions and for obvious reasons, if I should choose to pursue it, I probably want to DIY. Any ideas?
Spyd_Piper
New member
- Both the factory mapping and reprogrammed mapping require 91+..... But you can use 87 in a pinch.
First - understand that damaging detonation happens at high loads. (high throttle openings)
If you ever need to use 87 octane, simply stay at light loads. (below 50% throttle grip) and don't lug engine (don't use high gears with low rpm). You will be able to ride it wherever you need to as long as you want. Then once you got fresh high octane fuel back in it and tank cycled, have at it again.
- There is more power everywhere. You can shift wherever you like. You can short shift and ride the torque curve anywhere in the 3000-5000 range. Or you can let er rip and shift in the 5000-8000 range. There are no rules and each user will find a sweet spot that they themselves enjoy.
- What do you mean - what does the dyno say? - There is only 1 piece of data that a dyno can say. A chassis dyno is a tool that measures wide open throttle horsepower. Thats it.
A word about dyno's.
They are not for mapping EFI. (sure some people do as its convenient being stationary - and dynojet has "sold" this notion to the public that things should be mapped on a dyno. Err... on their dyno) But its simply wrong. An engine dyno is good for base mapping. (as OEM uses) On the ground is where its fine tuned. (where OEM and an ecu itself does this)
A chassis dyno is good for measuring peak hp changes. They are not intended or useful for part throttle hp figures. Fuel mapping. They are NO good for setting ignition timing figures either. The dyno brake can make ANY spot detonate as it can load engine well beyond real world conditions. This will surely have the outcome of being too rich and non optimal / lazy ignition timing compared to proper mapping. I have seen many many times AFR swing 2-3 points from being on dyno to road.
The big problem is trying to get any related engine brake load or inertia to real world conditions of a vehicle under its own weight, rider weight. And be remotely consistent. You can ask 100 different dyno operators what % of brake load will mimic the real world conditions - you will get 100 different answers. And I would bet none of them did proper testing for any particular vehicle in question.
Use the right tool for the right job.
As for peak power numbers. We have yet to find a dyno in our area that can take the footprint of the spyder. And for remote dyno test somewhere, we have yet to find one that can be lined up to have BUDS system there to allow dyno runs with defeating traction control / ABS operation. (put system in roller mode)
- What is streetable range? All rpm can be used on the street. At any time. Just as all throttle position (if the space allows)
- I will put basic instructions on the website.
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Up-shift recommended @ 2500-3000? Seems way too low for this 1330 engine unless your just cruising really, really easy on flat. (So low the notion of "lugging" & low rpm knocking under load comes to mind, particularly with the clutched version that won't downshift.) Either way, you're barely into the torque (and not even touching significant HP) at those low rpm's.
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aklim
New member
I know it won't downshift below 2500 and this is with auto. I upshift past 3000. What do you suggest?
Honestly, I seldom look at the tach. (unless I'm pushing hard from a stop in 1'st.) I shift by sound & feel. But I know it's at least 1k higher than 3000 under most circumstances. No point in using excessive throttle, I'd just get into the power a little! ;-)
I'm going to see where the tach. typically "sits" while I'm driving. ~ I'm guessing I usually "cruise" around 3,000 rpm. when travelling at constant speed/level ground etc. (and up-shift around 4k, maybe a touch higher)
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Jetfixer
Well-known member
The 1330 engine is at or above 80lb/ft of torque at 2000 rpm, and at about 89lb/ft at 3000. The peak is about 97lb/ft at about 4600 rpm. I routinely shift at or before 3000 rpm and it is just fine. I also am getting about 41 mpg shifting like this. I only run 89 octane non-ethanol gas unless it's not available while traveling, in which case I use the recommended premium fuel. You can't lug this engine on the SE-6, it will downshift on its own. Also, the spec sheets says, "Cruise comfortably in 6th gear at 3300 rpm."
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Yep, that's about where I cruise. Great gas mileage by the way! (Mine seems pretty "sleepy" @ 2000 rpm.... I'm surprised there's that much torque down so low.)
aklim
New member
I guess I am used to a car where you can look at the HP/Torque curve "BEFORE and AFTER"
So the only way to tell is Seat of The Pants dyno or how does one make the evaluation of how much improvement there is at different rpm points? :dontknow:
Dennis in Lodi
Member
Stats from timed test runs
Here is where the finale product is at for performance. This is for a 2015 RT
1. Stock 1st gear 0 to 50 mph @ 6 seconds, Flash 0 to 63 mph @ 6 seconds = 13 mph faster in 1st gear
2. Stock 2nd gear roll on at 35 mph @ 6 seconds = 63 mph. flash 35 mph to 83 mph 6 seconds = 20 mph faster in 2nd gear
3. Stock 3rd gear roll on at 45 mph @ 6 seconds = 73 mph. flash 45 mph to 96 mph 6 seconds = 23 mph faster in 3rd gear
Here is the PROOF of the above stated results. Check the elapsed times on the Video against the performance claims above. Then take your stock RT and test your times against the data. I mean seriously, what does it really take for people to accept facts??? Here is a video of a flash RT laying down 25' of rubber, WITH THE NANNY KICKING IN, and still getting to 68 mph in 6 seconds. Come on man!!!!
https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/
Note to all: if you never take your machine routinely above 5,000 rpm for shifting now, a flash is not going to really be that noticeable. Here is what the flash does best for the RT platform. Take a stock RT at 45 mph in 3rd gear and line it up against a Flashed RT in 5th gear and accelerate to 85 mph. Even though the stock RT is in 3rd gear, it will be several bike lengths behind the flashed RT which is in 5th gear. Then note above in 3. that if you did shift down to 3rd gear in a FLASHED RT @ 45 mph you would be going more than 20 mph faster than the stock RT. It's about two up roll on passing power without downshifting.
Here is where the finale product is at for performance. This is for a 2015 RT
1. Stock 1st gear 0 to 50 mph @ 6 seconds, Flash 0 to 63 mph @ 6 seconds = 13 mph faster in 1st gear
2. Stock 2nd gear roll on at 35 mph @ 6 seconds = 63 mph. flash 35 mph to 83 mph 6 seconds = 20 mph faster in 2nd gear
3. Stock 3rd gear roll on at 45 mph @ 6 seconds = 73 mph. flash 45 mph to 96 mph 6 seconds = 23 mph faster in 3rd gear
Here is the PROOF of the above stated results. Check the elapsed times on the Video against the performance claims above. Then take your stock RT and test your times against the data. I mean seriously, what does it really take for people to accept facts??? Here is a video of a flash RT laying down 25' of rubber, WITH THE NANNY KICKING IN, and still getting to 68 mph in 6 seconds. Come on man!!!!
https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/
Note to all: if you never take your machine routinely above 5,000 rpm for shifting now, a flash is not going to really be that noticeable. Here is what the flash does best for the RT platform. Take a stock RT at 45 mph in 3rd gear and line it up against a Flashed RT in 5th gear and accelerate to 85 mph. Even though the stock RT is in 3rd gear, it will be several bike lengths behind the flashed RT which is in 5th gear. Then note above in 3. that if you did shift down to 3rd gear in a FLASHED RT @ 45 mph you would be going more than 20 mph faster than the stock RT. It's about two up roll on passing power without downshifting.
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aklim
New member
Fair enough. I can use that info. Now I will shut down the F3 over winter and send the ECM out.
Sweetwater
New member
Which F3 is it? what was the stock time?
