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Not feeling the magic.......

I know how you feel. I purchased my 2013 spyder july 2013. On the way home from the dealership I quickly realized that I had made the biggest mistake in my toy buying career. Thanks to Sypderlovers forums I relaxed my grip and immediately it felt better, later on I have added the sway bar and laser align. Both also really improved the ride.

I often wonder if the brand new tires don't have something to do with the first impressions. Seems to me that once I got some miles on the tires they seemed to work better. Wonder if it takes some time for them to get broken in?

At any rate, as everyone has stated, don't give up. You will get used to the feel and eventually feel very secure on the bike.
 
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Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Today, I picked a reasonably straight state road, set the cruise control at 55, and just went. Setting the cruise control gave me one less thing to fuss about. I tried various positions while leaning in the few curves I encountered; a bit better, but still kinda scary. I guess this is like any other sport -- you need to trust your equipment.

I'll keep trying. Yesterday, I was a gnat's eyelash from packing it in. So again, thanks for the encouragement and hints. But I WILL get that alignment checked!

It can be pretty discouraging and seemingly insurmountable. But just knowing that others had the same problem and had overcome it with experience and resolve, I hung in there. And MAN! Am I ever glad I did!

Like you I wanted to quit so bad it hurt! And maybe a bit of injury to my pride didn't help either.
 
lots of great info given to you on here. I'd be interested in finding out what your cold tire pressures are? I know when I got my bike the dealer had my tires way over inflated and just like you I was thinking just what the heck have I gone out and done?

next off I'd vote laser alignment and then sway bar. oh and yes relax that grip and ease all that tension out of your hands and body.

with some time in the saddle you are going to see this is the best investment that you have ever made on a bike. :thumbup:
 
Oh, and while the "mods" are great on these machines, ride it and spend time on it first. Then figure out what changes, if any, will work best for YOU. ;)

Good advice. I have a 2012 RT and it is stock. The only thing done to it was to have the front shocks stiffened all the way. That's it. I have put over 12,000 miles on it and am very comfortable with it even at high speeds whether that be on the interstate or a two lane rural road. Sway bars and laser alignments no doubt help but are not mandatory for a good ride. Ride the Spyder like you would a horse and I mean that almost literally. If you've never ridden a horse then drive like you would an old pickup with loose steering. I'm serious.
 
First off I don't own a spyder but as I tell people asking about steering and handling related to 2-1 vehicles "physics is physics and steering geometry is steering geometry"
There is an equation that is universal related to steering and subsequent feel. In general your only adjustment is toe and this has only a mild effect on handling. Typically 1/4" positive is about right. Tire pressure as is recommended by the manufacture is set to 16psi or so, again only a mild influence. Anti-sway bar is a rather significant handling changer as a stiffer bar will cause a very positive improvement in the area of handling.

The busy front end as noted in the above statements is not directly related to steering geometry but more inline with aerodynamic design. The CanAm like the GL1800 goldwing have a rather large frontal area this design places the center of force well ahead of the center of mass. At speed and into the wind this will cause the bike to drift and even oscillate from side to side. The only fix is to first reduce the frontal area pressure by slimming down the design or increase the caster which will help but also cause more feedback while cornering.
Unfortunately neither option is currently available as caster is fixed and unless you replace the plastic aerodynamics is not an option either. The shell has been redesigned for 2015 so perhaps some tunnel tests warranted a change.

Personally I think more time in the saddle and a stiffer anti-sway bar is the ticket for now. I have over 106,000 miles testing and developing 2-1 configurations and I will testify the CanAm or any 2-1 design will out handle out corner most traditional 2 wheel motorcycles. Also avoid the tendency to over-inflate the tires as this is a common mistake that only damages the ride and tire life and offers no improvement to stability, actually it is quite detrimental to the drivability in most cases.

And that's all I have to say about that..........


First off I don't have 100k miles on three wheels.

I do differ on opinion though in regards to your steering geometry comments. I agree the Spyder is limited to toe adjustments, but these can be a huge factor. Some of the ways to dial in how a vehicle turns in is based on toe adjustments. In simple terms, toe out tends to wander, while toe in is more straight line predictable. Your 100k my indicate otherwise, but I will push my chips to the center of the table based on my track time in karts.

I can easily carry this over to the Spyder. Our machine was crap in the handling as delivered. Without using the laser, but rather a wrench, I decided by feel the front toe was not correct as delivered by BRP and made less than 1 turn on the tie rod. Pretty simple change, and based on driver input.

Prior to the toe change, there was no way I would consider loosening my grip, let alone take both hands off the bars. After the simple adjustment, done in two stages, I can go hands free at highway speeds (CC on) with no wandering back and forth.

As for the aerodynamics, I hear where you are coming from, but have a difficult time believing that at less than 50 mph, and cornering, the aerodynamics will foul the handling to that extent. If that's true, then with all the engineering formulas dealing with speed vs drag, yaw vs drag, aerodynamic drag and so forth, and most of these formulas deal with math to the square, at 80 these Spyders would be pretty unstable and wag their tail constantly.

Without much effort, I found this article that explains toe effects pretty good.

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/CAMBER_CASTOR_TOE.html

All the best with it.

PK
 
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I agree with what everyone has said. Only thing I would add is change the rear shock adjustment. Go from highest to lowest, ride it, and then go up in increments until you find the spot that works best.
I traveled the same road that I had rode our RTS home from in July the other day. That was over 11,000 miles ago. I couldn't help but remember how scared at how the bike handled. I kept thinking "What have I got myself into?". I am now so comfortable on the bike that I would never go back to two wheels...
Take your time, give your body time to adjust, and I'm sure you will do fine.

:agree: . . . I was thinking the same thing, yesterday, towards the end of a 300+ mile ride home from the Ohio Spyder Rally. My Zumo took me off I-70, and down Rt522 to Berkeley Springs, WV. I bought my Spyder there, and recall how terrifying that terrible twisty road to Martinsburg was, last year. Yesterday, I was laughing, as I was blowing through those same twisties at 10 MPH over the posted speed at the curves . . . the difference? A laser alignment, a Baja Ron Sway Bar . . . and 10,000 miles of riding my Spyder! It will take you time to unlearn your two-wheel habits, but once you do, you will come to really love your Spyder . . . and your front end should act as though you are on rails . . . if it isn't, you need some work . . . probably a laser alignment, first!
 
I just can't help but think there is something wrong here. I know it is DIFFERENT going from 2 to 3 wheels, but an experienced rider should NOT be terrified! My own experience, I traded a really enjoyable BMW RT for my 2013 Spyder RT. I had test driven a 2012 demo and decided on the trade before the dealer had a 2013 on the floor. When the 2013 came in, I rode it out of the lot and didn't get 2 miles before I regretted my decision. I was all over the road, couldn't go above 45mph without scaring the daylights out of myself. And I had been riding 25 yrs. Well, it turned out to be bad ball joints. They were replaced under warranty and she has been great ever since. My point is, do you have a trusted mechanic or other Spyder rider that can take your machine for a spin and give you a critique? That may narrow it down. You may have something going on with tires, alignment, inflation, shocks,... It may NOT be in your head! :D Hope it works out because a well running Spyder is, well, I won't be going back to 2 wheels! Good luck! :thumbup:
 
... laser alignments no doubt help but are not mandatory for a good ride.

Since I do laser alignments, you can rightly assume that I am biased. I do not doubt that you are comfortable with your ride as it is without having had a laser alignment. However not all Spyders come off the showroom floor with the same alignment. I think all of us that do alignments have horror stories about how badly aligned a particular bike was. For example, I have seen spyders with over 2 inches toe out on one side. That will never be a comfortable ride.

The last alignment I performed was for a gentleman who didn't think he had a problem but had read enough to convince him that he ought to at least have it checked out. He was out of alignment but not horror story out. We got him dialed in as it should be and he did his test ride. He was amazed at the difference it made. That was not because we are miracle workers, but because the ROLO system is that good.

I would encourage anyone who has not been checked out to get on the list the next time someone is in your area and have it checked. I can't speak for everyone, but with the independents I am aware of, the check is free.
 
When the 2013 came in, I rode it out of the lot and didn't get 2 miles before I regretted my decision. I was all over the road, couldn't go above 45mph without scaring the daylights out of myself. And I had been riding 25 yrs. Well, it turned out to be bad ball joints. They were replaced under warranty and she has been great ever since. My point is, do you have a trusted mechanic or other Spyder rider that can take your machine for a spin and give you a critique? That may narrow it down. You may have something going on with tires, alignment, inflation, shocks,..
Ball joints were an issue for 2013; while I haven't heard of that for 2014; there were some bikes with bad shocks... :shocked:

Tire pressures; another good point! The front tires do need to be kept within a half-pound of each other...
 
Since I do laser alignments, you can rightly assume that I am biased. I do not doubt that you are comfortable with your ride as it is without having had a laser alignment. However not all Spyders come off the showroom floor with the same alignment. I think all of us that do alignments have horror stories about how badly aligned a particular bike was. For example, I have seen spyders with over 2 inches toe out on one side. That will never be a comfortable ride.

The last alignment I performed was for a gentleman who didn't think he had a problem but had read enough to convince him that he ought to at least have it checked out. He was out of alignment but not horror story out. We got him dialed in as it should be and he did his test ride. He was amazed at the difference it made. That was not because we are miracle workers, but because the ROLO system is that good.

I would encourage anyone who has not been checked out to get on the list the next time someone is in your area and have it checked. I can't speak for everyone, but with the independents I am aware of, the check is free.

:agree:

I almost posted in reply to that same Spyderlover who is happy with a maxed out setting on his spring pre-load. But when you're a vendor of the product, it's hard not to come off the wrong way. So instead, I would normally have recommended he get the laser alignment. It's a win-win situation because if he is within specs., most will not charge anything. If he's out of spec., then he definitely needed it. The cost is easily recovered just by getting reasonable mileage out of the front tires. By maxing out the pre-load he's raised the front of his Spyder and it's pretty certain he's out of alignment specs., not to mention that really makes for a harsh ride.

The thing is, he's happy. And you can't argue with that.

There have been many who swore they were very happy with the way their Spyder handled and didn't see any reason to add a sway bar. But, through constant encouraging from fellow riders, decided to install one anyway, just to get them off their back. Some would tell me this when they ordered saying; 'If I don't really like this bar, you're going to get it back!'.

I always tell them the same thing. There is an unconditional money back guarantee on my bar kits. So not a problem. Without exception, the response I've gotten after they installed the bar is that they couldn't believe how much better their Spyder handled. That they were only satisfied before because they didn't know what they were missing.

A number of them had also cranked their pre-load spring adjustment all the way up to help with the sway, lean, getting pushed around in cross winds, etc. They were so happy to be able to ratchet the pre-load down a few notches and get their comfy ride back.

It would be interesting to see how his tires are wearing.
 
Ball joints were an issue for 2013; while I haven't heard of that for 2014; there were some bikes with bad shocks... :shocked:

Tire pressures; another good point! The front tires do need to be kept within a half-pound of each other...

True. We assume that most of the 'Newbie' handling issues are due to inexperience and unlearning 2 wheel habits. But there are a number of defective component possibilities that would make even the most experienced Spyder rider cringe.

Good point.
 
I am in no way an expert rider nor do I have 20 years experience on 2 wheels. I did ride a few dirt bikes, did hill climbs as a kid, had a Honda 550 back in the 70's and recently a Suzuki C50T but that's about it. I bought my Spyder ST-L in July and I have a little over 6300 miles now. I am now just really beginning to figure it out. Don't get me wrong I loved it right off but I am finally starting to play a little. By playing around I figured out how to hunker down and lean into the corners with my Spyder and actually ride the corners instead of sitting on my Spyder, especially the tight twisties. I may be a lot slower than others as far as experimenting but I get there eventually. The one thing I did notice when I was playing around is that the steering is very quick. If I turned too fast to the right to overcompensate for going too far left (or visa verse) it does respond very quickly and gives a quick jerk. I learned to steer, (push-pull) with more of a constant gentle motion and just roll on through.

I have also read most all the posts about the laser alignment and the Bajaron sway bar and I think eventually I will get both but first for me anyway is how I sit on it. I am contemplating on getting a different seat. The ST has the more sporty seat that you sit on top of and not in. I think if I were sitting more into the Spyder it might help me even more.

So those are my two very un-mechanical contributions for you. Watch how fast you are reacting when you turn the wheels and feel how you sit/fit on it.
 
My .02 would be the same as the few who suggested doing nothing as far as mods were concerned until you have more time and feel comfortable on your bike.

I bought my 13 ST Limited the end of May, last year. I had been riding an HD Electraglide for the prior 10 years. Talk about a difference... The advice that I found most helpful was to do nothing (other than the upgraded shocks that BRP did) as far as mods were concerned, until I felt comfortable. I went on as many little road trips as I could. (still work full time) Went out to lunch..(100-150 miles round trip) as many times as I could. I also tried to ride every different kind of road I could find. When I found a road that I did not feel comfortable riding, I rode it as many times as I could until I did feel comfortable. I never did do any other mods. (when my tire was replaced, I did have an alignment done) I feel very comfortable and feel that I am a proficient rider. I can keep up with any other rider that I know. I have approximately 13000 on the bike.

We bought my husband a 12 RTS that was modified to a Limited and came with the Ron bar, Elka Shocks all the way around, et.. right before Spyderquest last year. He had been riding an HD Roadking for the past 12 years prior to that. (had ridden a bike forever) We left for Lake George, NY the weekend after we bought it. (He on his RTS and I on my STL) By the time that we had gotten to New York (595 miles or so), I remember him telling another guy that he felt as if he was "floating" all over the interstate. Our trip turned in to 1500 miles or so. By the time we had gotten back he was feeling a lot better.

I guess what I am trying to say is that comfort comes with time and mileage put on the Spyder. People have the wrong impression of our Spyders. They think they are easy to ride. I really think they are a blast to ride. Once you get used to riding them.

Hope you don't give up too soon.....
 
I am in no way an expert rider nor do I have 20 years experience on 2 wheels. I did ride a few dirt bikes, did hill climbs as a kid, had a Honda 550 back in the 70's and recently a Suzuki C50T but that's about it. I bought my Spyder ST-L in July and I have a little over 6300 miles now. I am now just really beginning to figure it out. Don't get me wrong I loved it right off but I am finally starting to play a little. By playing around I figured out how to hunker down and lean into the corners with my Spyder and actually ride the corners instead of sitting on my Spyder, especially the tight twisties. I may be a lot slower than others as far as experimenting but I get there eventually. The one thing I did notice when I was playing around is that the steering is very quick. If I turned too fast to the right to overcompensate for going too far left (or visa verse) it does respond very quickly and gives a quick jerk. I learned to steer, (push-pull) with more of a constant gentle motion and just roll on through.

I have also read most all the posts about the laser alignment and the Bajaron sway bar and I think eventually I will get both but first for me anyway is how I sit on it. I am contemplating on getting a different seat. The ST has the more sporty seat that you sit on top of and not in. I think if I were sitting more into the Spyder it might help me even more.

So those are my two very un-mechanical contributions for you. Watch how fast you are reacting when you turn the wheels and feel how you sit/fit on it.

I would say that you have entered 'Stage 2' of the Spyder riding experience. Personally, I think everyone goes through the same stages. It's just that some get through more quickly than others.

Once you get through 'Stage 1', which is the understanding/confidence building/relax and enjoy the ride stage. You get to 'Stage 2', which is the skills enhancement stage. In this stage, 'SMOOTH' is the primary goal. Move smooth, steer smooth, throttle smooth, brake smooth. It doesn't mean you can't be aggressive. On the contrary, the smoother you become, the more aggressive you can be with less interference from the Nanny and less issues through curves.

To me this is the fun stage. And to be honest, I don't think anyone ever actually graduates from this stage.
 
Some would tell me this when they ordered saying; 'If I don't really like this bar, you're going to get it back!'. I always tell them the same thing. There is an unconditional money back guarantee on my bar kits. So not a problem. Without exception, the response I've gotten after they installed the bar is that they couldn't believe how much better their Spyder handled. That they were only satisfied before because they didn't know what they were missing.

So... I'm curious to know if you have EVER gotten any sway bars back from customers who were dissatisfied after trying it?

You ain't gettin' mine back!
 
My '12 needed a ronbar and it did wonders. The '14 I thought needed one, but I synched up the tires with one of the dual fill gizmos at 20lb and it handles really well.

I'm sure a ronbar would make it even better, but the '14 without handles better than the '12 with...

As to the learning curve....I bought my '12 in DC and rode it home to NC. Plenty scary going straight from a two wheeler to a spyder on a cloverleaf.

Now I toss it into corners and play chicken with Nanny, it's a riding style and skill that you'll need to develop.

Just as you don't ride a dirt bike like you do a street bike, you don't ride a spyder like you do a motorcycle. It's a fun challenge and your skill level will grow, along with your confidence.

Enjoy!!:yes:
 
:shocked: This isn't another, "12-Step" program; is it? :shocked:

No, it's just my way of Pigeon Hole-ing the process in my own mind (what there is left of it).

So... I'm curious to know if you have EVER gotten any sway bars back from customers who were dissatisfied after trying it?

You ain't gettin' mine back!

I have gotten 1 bar returned. I don't want to say too much but the customer had a physical handicap and he said the bar make the Spyder handle 'Too Good'.
 
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