NEW UPDATE TO THE NHTSA INVESTIGATION

[PMK]

Rotax is part of BRP. They have the data unless Aprilla uses their own engine management system after purchasing the engine. But even then, very different intended purposes and tuning.

It does seem like a lot of small error or decisions that have added up against BRP here. Each on its own would not likely have caused all these problems. Its not a simple fix like drilling some holes. BRP is going to be forced to spend some money to fix or buy back.

Agree 100% that Rotax is part of BRP, partially why I suggested this route. Granted the Aprillia is a different machine, but one would suspect that engine parameters for items such as Air Fuel Ratios, EGT if available, engine basics such as timing fuel injection durations and so forth could be compared. Essentially, ensuring the engine is running properly, or better than currently and see if a drop in temps follows.

Has anyone been asked to test with modified exterior body panels? Granted it is not a practical fix, but do something that makes a drastic change to help find a course to rectify the issue.

Illegal or not, they should also get a means to be exempt from testing a machine with the converter removed.

PK

 

[Magdave]

Agree 100% that Rotax is part of BRP, partially why I suggested this route. Granted the Aprillia is a different machine, but one would suspect that engine parameters for items such as Air Fuel Ratios, EGT if available, engine basics such as timing fuel injection durations and so forth could be compared. Essentially, ensuring the engine is running properly, or better than currently and see if a drop in temps follows.

Has anyone been asked to test with modified exterior body panels? Granted it is not a practical fix, but do something that makes a drastic change to help find a course to rectify the issue.

Illegal or not, they should also get a means to be exempt from testing a machine with the converter removed.

PK

Seriously it is not that hard to put a Cat shield over the cat. Every auto has one guess why? EXCESSIVE heat rising off of it. :dontknow: They are a heck of a lot smaller too which is why I already asked why not replace it with a bullet CAT?

 

[Jeriatric]

Last resort

Never wanted to cry to a government agency about the problems we've encountered with the spyder. Always felt BRP could be convinced of the realness of said problems. I was wrong! So, this morning we did what they forced us to do. Cried to a goverment agency. To say I'm disappointed in having to do so, would be an understatement.

 

[PMK]

Seriously it is not that hard to put a Cat shield over the cat. Every auto has one guess why? EXCESSIVE heat rising off of it. :dontknow: They are a heck of a lot smaller too which is why I already asked why not replace it with a bullet CAT?

My suggestion was not for a permanent fix, but rather to see some form of a change, with minimal effort. Pull the cat, install a bypass pipe and evaluate. If it works, as others have said it does, then research hand fab'd prototype heat shields. Thing is, heat shield as is or modified, the heat is still under the bodywork and needs to go somewhere.

Even our 14 RTs was tough on the passengers feet with heat radiating out when stopped in traffic. Not boiling fuel or any of that, but the rear admiral mentioned it. Her request was granted and the heat issue is no longer a problem for her.

PK

 

[Bob Denman]

Filed complaint and sent investigator all the infomation I have collected.

And I have to compliment you, on your choice in Avatars... :clap::2thumbs:

 

[Hecam17]

FYI- If you filed a Safety Defect claim with NHTSA and got and ODI claim number, you should refile and get a VOQ number. I did & I will.

 

[Magdave]

FYI- If you filed a Safety Defect claim with NHTSA and got and ODI claim number, you should refile and get a VOQ number. I did & I will.

Explain the procedure please?:dontknow:

 

[sduskin]

we did the same...

I recently traded my 2013 because of the heat issues and gas fumes. The dealer is now trying to sell my unit and I feel sorry for the guy who buys it. I spent over $2k trying to fix the issues and it cost me $6700 difference to make the trade. That is a total of $8700 spent to try to get a unit I would enjoy riding past 15 minutes. Granted, the 2014's are nicer but if my 2013 had been comfortable to ride I would have kept it.

Maybe a lawyer might be interested in finding out how many owners of 2013's would be interested in joining in on a lawsuit. I feel like I should be able to recover some of my loss but that is not the incentive. The incentive is to get BRP to acknowlege they have a problem. In my case I hope they will fix my unit for the next buyer who will soon experience the same regrets the rest of us had once we realized what we purchased.

First one for my wife was a 2013 ST-S. It had heat issues from day 1. She would pull over from longer rides or get off after shorter rides saying "my zipper is melting!!". Figuratively, not literally. After a month, I was ready to pull the trigger on a complete set of panel replacements when the ST's lack of storage and lack of a 6th gear came into play. To make a long story short, we took it in the "checkbook" to the tune of about $5000 to trade up to a 2014 RT-S. She could not be happier now!

The heat problem was far and away the greatest reason for the trade. The other lacks were the tipping points.

 

[M109Dreamer]

FYI- If you filed a Safety Defect claim with NHTSA and got and ODI claim number, you should refile and get a VOQ number. I did & I will.

Explain the procedure please?:dontknow:

Yes please explain.....
When you file it gives you the ODI number. But it never mentions a future action on the owners part. Whats the difference in the 2?

 

[finless]

The "brp fix" for the 13' RT will likely be a cordless drill, a hole saw, and a few dozen holes in a bunch of the body panels and trunk.....good luck with that.

I am going to have to agree with you that the fix will be the cheapest thing possible for BRP to do. They are a company with investors and a bottom line!

However, I also hope that whatever they come up with is approved and tested to be a correct fix by the NHTSA.
As many have said before, this issue all comes down to keeping the gas from boiling in the tank! So whatever the fix is, it has to achieve that.

Bob

 

[ThreeWheels]

If I recall correctly, others who have installed the K&N air filter have noticed a decrease in body heat.
The K&N is so much smaller than the factory BIGA$$ HONKIN air box that it allows more air flow through the body cavity.
Am I mistaken ?

 

[Magdave]

I am going to have to agree with you that the fix will be the cheapest thing possible for BRP to do. They are a company with investors and a bottom line!

However, I also hope that whatever they come up with is approved and tested to be a correct fix by the NHTSA.
As many have said before, this issue all comes down to keeping the gas from boiling in the tank! So whatever the fix is, it has to achieve that.

Bob

NHTSA is testing there butts off as we speak.....:thumbup:

 

[finless]

NHTSA is testing there butts off as we speak.....:thumbup:

How can they be testing a fix if it doesn't exist yet?

What your saying is they are testing bikes to prove there is a problem correct?

Bob

 

[adlereins]

You are getting close. Dig a little deeper.

I dug a little deeper and as a result, filed a formal complaint. Mine is a 2012 Rt that has the gasoline fumes problem on occasion but probably not as bad as the 2013's. That being said, gasoline fumes are a no no as it only takes one spark at the wrong time and place.

Take Care
Allen B. aka adlereins

 

[Hecam17]

FYI- If you filed a Safety Defect claim with NHTSA and got and ODI claim number, you should refile and get a VOQ number. I did & I will.

Sorry-
Earlier today I was told they are not the same and file a VOQ (Vehicle Owner Questionnaire).
In the last half hour I was told they are the same and my ODI (Office of Defects Investigation) is part of the 109 claims.

 

[Magdave]

How can they be testing a fix if it doesn't exist yet?

What your saying is they are testing bikes to prove there is a problem correct?

Bob

They know about the Heat dissipation experiment too but yes they are testing not only stock bikes but if you read the letter you will see references to an owner who worked with BRP getting his bike "fixed" and asked a lot of questions about that specific bike. They are very well informed about everything that has gone on and most concerned with fires after BRP's 2013 recall. The truth is out there

 

[finless]

They know about the Heat dissipation experiment too but yes they are testing not only stock bikes but if you read the letter you will see references to an owner who worked with BRP getting his bike "fixed" and asked a lot of questions about that specific bike. They are very well informed about everything that has gone on and most concerned with fires after BRP's 2013 recall. The truth is out there

Interesting.....

Also a thought on the fix. Why does the Spyder have a cat when a lot of other motorcycles don't?

Is it some requirement? Maybe Ca and other states? If so again, other MC's don't have a cat....

So maybe part of the fix is removing the cat and changing the airbox followed by a BUDS retune?
Just speculating....

Bob

 

[cuznjohn]

when he called me, bob, he thought i still had my 13 rt but we talked a lil and he was at my dealer meeting people and taking readings and complaints so they are working on it

 

[jcthorne]

If I recall correctly, others who have installed the K&N air filter have noticed a decrease in body heat.
The K&N is so much smaller than the factory BIGA$$ HONKIN air box that it allows more air flow through the body cavity.
Am I mistaken ?

Not K&N, JT's Air Cleaner.

K&N makes a replacement panel that fits in the factory air box. Not recommended.

JT's Machine makes a replacement air cleaner assembly that does indeed allow much more air flow. Highly recommended. It also uses a replaceable synthetic element filter, NOT a K&N oiled gauze filter.

 

[finless]

Not K&N, JT's Air Cleaner.

K&N makes a replacement panel that fits in the factory air box. Not recommended.

JT's Machine makes a replacement air cleaner assembly that does indeed allow much more air flow. Highly recommended. It also uses a replaceable synthetic element filter, NOT a K&N oiled gauze filter.

Yes but I worry about the increased noise.... One day I have to hear Jerbear's ride so I can see the difference and the trade off. I am not into loud rides.

Bob