Need a little help...

[IWN2RYD]

As a few of you know, I am having what I consider to be two mechanical issues with my Spyder RT-S SE5.

Tranny staying in first causing it to stall. And one that is a little on the frustrating side for me...

The VSS kicks in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to soon. I cannot turn left or right, from a stop mind you, and not have the VSS kick in. It slows the rpms down, I fall forward, it lets us go and I fall backward.

Now the frustrating part for me is the dealer has tried for two days to duplicate these items and have not been able to.

Does this mean I am expecting our bike to do more than BRP designed it for? I will tell you right now, that under no circumstances am I "Pushing" this bike. It is how I normally ride!! I can get on any bike and "Drive" it into and out of corners. This RT-S will not!!!

I would go as far to say that the RS I rode let me do more to it by far than this RT will even let me get close to!

If I "Ride" the bike allowing the downshift to do it's own thing, and keep an even pressure on the throttle, the "Ride" is wonderful. But the moment I do the down shifting or.....

Let's just say I a fairly good driver and leave it at that. What I do when I am "Driving" is prep the vehicle for the turn, once in the turn and just about half way through the turn (Close to the inside bottom of that turn) I gas it to pull through the rest of the turn in preparation for the next turn. This means all of my braking and preparation for the turn including most of the steering has already been completed before I even get in the turn. So what this Spyder is doing is fallin flat on its face in the turn as I hit the gas.

Please before I get responses... No I am not speeding or "Race driving" This is normal everyday type driving for me. Not once has person that has ridden with me has ever commented on my driving style or even grabbed the blades of my shoulder for fear of them falling off the bike. Now on the track, yes, LOTS of comments :roflblack:

I am close to pulling my hair out with this. Any ideas? Is it me?

P.S. I forgot to mention.. I can "Drive" this RT-S in a straight line as hard as I want without a single issue. She runs great!!!

 

[pitbull]

As a few of you know, I am having what I consider to be two mechanical issues with my Spyder RT-S SE5.

Tranny staying in first causing it to stall. And one that is a little on the frustrating side for me...

The VSS kicks in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to soon. I cannot turn left or right, from a stop mind you, and not have the VSS kick in. It slows the rpms down, I fall forward, it lets us go and I fall backward.

Now the frustrating part for me is the dealer has tried for two days to duplicate these items and have not been able to.

Does this mean I am expecting our bike to do more than BRP designed it for? I will tell you right now, that under no circumstances am I "Pushing" this bike. It is how I normally ride!! I can get on any bike and "Drive" it into and out of corners. This RT-S will not!!!

I would go as far to say that the RS I rode let me do more to it by far than this RT will even let me get close to!

If I "Ride" the bike allowing the downshift to do it's own thing, and keep an even pressure on the throttle, the "Ride" is wonderful. But the moment I do the down shifting or.....

Let's just say I a fairly good driver and leave it at that. What I do when I am "Driving" is prep the vehicle for the turn, once in the turn and just about half way through the turn (Close to the inside bottom of that turn) I gas it to pull through the rest of the turn in preparation for the next turn. This means all of my braking and preparation for the turn including most of the steering has already been completed before I even get in the turn. So what this Spyder is doing is fallin flat on its face in the turn as I hit the gas.

Please before I get responses... No I am not speeding or "Race driving" This is normal everyday type driving for me. Not once has person that has ridden with me has ever commented on my driving style or even grabbed the blades of my shoulder for fear of them falling off the bike. Now on the track, yes, LOTS of comments :roflblack:

I am close to pulling my hair out with this. Any ideas? Is it me?

P.S. I forgot to mention.. I can "Drive" this RT-S in a straight line as hard as I want without a single issue. She runs great!!!

Wow friend you have some issues here......but no worries couple of questions?????? has your dealer done any updates? also have they recaliabrated anything and lol do they really know spyders.....not being mean but alot of dealers spyders are well sidelines, this can be a hassle for you. Also on your vss issue what is your weight? is it doing it with a passanger?? or just you or both? also what is the setting on your front shocks?? have you turned them up yet?.......And has anyone checked the air pressure in your tires???.......I kow theses are basic question, but sometimes it better to try simpl first and then move on to the harder stuff. Anything we can do to help let us know CowTown USA cuba mo 800 258 6898 Len Damoth. Thanks

 

[NancysToy]

I agree about checking all the simple things first...which you may already have done. To me, the simplest way to see if it is you or your RT is to ride the dealer's demo and compare. That should tell you a lot. Also, if you can duplicate the conditions at will, see if your tech will go for a ride with you, two-up. Most probably won't, but it would show hm both the Spyder's actions and your technique. Another alternative would be to ride on separate machines, and stop after a preoblem, so he can swap machines and ride through the same place.

 

[IWN2RYD]

I am 225 ish wife is 105 ish... It happens mostly when the wife is ryding...

Front shocks @ setting #4 on the shocks themselves (One notch from max) and the rear is also one notch from the hardest setting.

Front tires @ 18 rear @ 28.

The reality is I think I will just have to pay to have the clutch bushings (Or whatever they are) installed and paid for by myself. If the dealer cannot duplicate the issue how can the send it in as a warranty if BRP hides like Toyota does.

I also think the RT-S SE5 was programmed for "Old fart sit-alongs" with no "Sportish" type riding. There is no reason for it to have the VSS kick in as soon as it does.

I have not yet tested another RT. This was suggested by my dealer (How has been nothing short of very understanding and helpful) but how is that going to matter if they are not able to duplicate the issues I am having.

You cannot fake the bike failing to stop staying engaged in first gear, ending up in a dangerous position. It is real and happened to many times.

Is it going to take 89 deaths like the Toyota's before they fix it???

Sure, I know the RT-S SE5 makes since to not "Sport" ryde it. I get that. Maybe an aftermarket "Option" will come out with a "Sport-Touring" switch for the computer...

But you cannot tell me that the only folks buying and ryding these RT's are not wanting to have fun "Sport" ryding every once in a while?

In fact I will say this. I watched the Speed Channel special, there are more than a few times that I can identify that their bikes worked great where mine would have the VSS kick in....

I tried calling BRP directly, and sat on the hold feature for over an hour before I hung up....

 

[NancysToy]

I'm confused! First, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Spyder staying in first gear when you stop. That is what it is supposed to do. The centrifugal clutch kicks out and you sit there and idle until you increase the throttle. Now if you cannot get it into neutral when you desire, that is another problem, and should be easy to duplicate. There could be a mechanical issue, sensor issue, or operator error. If it stalls at a stop, that is not supposed to happen, and your dealer should make it right. That is usually the clutch bearing issue.

As to cornering performance, this is not a sport tourer or a sport bike...it is a full-fledged touring machine...luxury tourer, if you please. I don't think I am an "old-fart sit-along", nor is Lamont. We manage quite well on the RT...and we have a choice in models to ride. The RS was originally marketed as a sport-tourer, and it comes pretty close with a comfort seat and accessory bags. If you want that kind of thing, it is available. You cannot expect the RT to handle like a sports car, especially two-up. The suspension is too soft for that and the machine is heavy and tall. You could help a bit by increasing the front shock setting to max. The book values are too low, IMO.

Not sure what you are referring to about the VSS. I have cornered hard, and it has never tried to kick in. Even with the mushy stock suspension, I can manage 10-15 mph above the posted curve limits...and that was on a demo. Same with mine after they fixed it. Kurt from BRP rode it and said it handled better through the corners than his pre-production model did. Are you having trouble with traction control issues or yaw issues? If it is yaw, riding the demo would tell you whether it is normal or not. If it is not the same, the dealer is responsible to find and fix it, whether he can duplicate it or not. If he finds it is different from the demo, he can call BRP for help in troubleshooting it. He deserves a chance to try to do his job. If the demo handles the same, then you will have to resign yourself to the fact that you need to make some adjustments in your riding technique..and possibly your suspension settings.

I am not trying to be harsh here, I really hope you find a satisfactory answer. I really do think you should do the demo ride, it will tell you whether it is the machine...or your expectations or technique.

 

[IWN2RYD]

lol... I think in my frustration I am not making myself clear. I am using thoughts as a way to explain my situation clearer. If you have taken offense (As it seems you have) please do not.

The bike stays moving forward on first gear at a stop, (When this happens) it never stops trying to move the bike forward. I have to press hard on the brake to keep from getting killed in an intersection or hitting the car/bike in front of me. This causes the bike to "Stall".

As to my old fart comment... I thought I made it clear I am not young myself, and I am not interested in the RS. I want a touring bike. But the VSS is responding as if I am 85+ wanting to put put around. Not "Drive" it like a person should be able to.

In fact I explained it to my dealer this way... The bike reacts like I am driving on ice when turning. In no way am I being "Aggressive". Maybe that is how I should word it instead of "sporty".

Again, I am in no way over extending the ability of the bike, heck I can't even try to!!

Bottom line. Dealer cannot duplicate the Clutch issue, and they tell me the bike is a Touring bike and BRP set it up to react sooner than any other bike made.

Fact. This has endangered our lives. And that is not funny.

 

[Dwight]

IWN2RYD
It appears you may have a clutch issue, but make sure you are not holding the throttle open a little. When I first rode mine I had this problem then noticied that I was not letting go of the throttle. Because it is fly by wire there is very little resistance, particulary in the lower range of throttle travel. Try making a concious effort to let go of the throttle when you come to a stop. If that doesn't help I gotta think it's a clutch problem.
About the VSS, check your rear suspension. Push down on the rear passenger hand hold, use most of your weight, and then let it go as quick as you can. If it tops out with a bang or it bounces like a basketball your rear shock has lost it dampening. This will cause it to roll over easier and engage the VSS sooner. I was having the same results you are with the missus on the back even just turning a corner in town! Since they fixed my shock and air system it is much better but still not up to my standards. The VSS should be adjustable but I doubt you will find anyone who will do it. I know I'll get ripped for saying this but I'm really considering disengaging the passenger switch. Even my passenger likes going around corners.
Hang in there and keep on your dealer to get you fixed.

Dwight

 

[IWN2RYD]

Thanks!... Good thought on the throttle. Actually the first and second time it happened, my reaction was a panic and removed my right hand from the throttle thinking that is what happened.

Sadly it was not.

My wife is the one who told me we were getting one of these RT's.... and so far she refuses to try and drive this herself. She is a fairly brave person, but that one time we ended up in the intersection has her not allowing me to drive it on my own. That is adding to my less than happy stance.

One thing I do want to make clear. I am one of those type of guys that likes the latest in anything I am in to. Phones, Computers, cars and so on. So I am very familiar with new tech, and the cost of living on the cutting edge of technology, or the combination of new tech and new ideas built into one. SO on one hand this does not surprise me even a little bit that we have either a need to tweak the settings on the electronics in this bike, or a hardware issue inside the clutch mechanism itself.

But what I am not OK with is when the potential for true harm is real, and the dealers are not given the parts, tools or information to take care of us... The owners.

I will bet quite a large some of $$ that this issue on the clutch (Or what have you) is the bearings. I am going to try BRP one more time and gently inform them of my concern and seriousness of it.

Now to the VSS... I will try that!! I had hoped I was not one of those with a rear shock issue. But that makes since! That is why I tried the front shock adjustments recommended in another thread. I never thought about the rear because I set it so high and the ride was very different than when in the soft settings...

Than you all for this wonderful input. Sadly I suck at getting my message across the inter-webs

 

[NancysToy]

lol... I think in my frustration I am not making myself clear. I am using thoughts as a way to explain my situation clearer. If you have taken offense (As it seems you have) please do not.

The bike stays moving forward on first gear at a stop, (When this happens) it never stops trying to move the bike forward. I have to press hard on the brake to keep from getting killed in an intersection or hitting the car/bike in front of me. This causes the bike to "Stall".

As to my old fart comment... I thought I made it clear I am not young myself, and I am not interested in the RS. I want a touring bike. But the VSS is responding as if I am 85+ wanting to put put around. Not "Drive" it like a person should be able to.

In fact I explained it to my dealer this way... The bike reacts like I am driving on ice when turning. In no way am I being "Aggressive". Maybe that is how I should word it instead of "sporty".

Again, I am in no way over extending the ability of the bike, heck I can't even try to!!

Bottom line. Dealer cannot duplicate the Clutch issue, and they tell me the bike is a Touring bike and BRP set it up to react sooner than any other bike made.

Fact. This has endangered our lives. And that is not funny.

LOL...No offense taken, I assure you. Thanks for the further explanation, I think maybe I understand better now. I still think it would help for you to demo ride another RT or two, to see if the problem is your unit, or if there is something you need to adapt to. If the demos don't do the same exact thing, don't take the dealer's word that it is "normal."

As to the stalling, intermittent or not, the dealer has an obligation to fix it. There is a BRP fix for this, and it is well established that it can be intermittent in nature. If the dealer calls BRP tech, they should have no trouble getting authorization for the necessary repairs. Don't take "No" for an answer!

Actually, I am an old fart...I just don't think I ride like one. Not aggressive, but not slow, either. The point is that other RTs seem to be doing fine in this department. Either you are trying way too hard, you are not leaning into the turns at all, or the Spyder has some issues. I suspect the latter. One other thing you might try, if there is an experienced RT owner near you, is to let them ride yours, and see what they think. never hurts to get anmother opinion.

I know you feel your dealer is being square with you, but I'm not so sure. These problems can be either resolved or explained. In this case, they seem to have done neither. Keep pounding on them until you get it right. The RT is no sporty model like an RS, but it doesn't handle like a Ford Model A, either. There has to be an answer. I think comparison is your best ally, in this case.

 

[Son_Of_A_Moose_88]

I'm almost certain your centrifugal clutch is the problem.High rpm (2200-2500) jerky downshifts,VSS triggering!!!

Mine is a 2009 GS SE5 but sure sounds familiar.Check this thread
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19796

 

[IWN2RYD]

My current thoughts on all this.... :trike:

Now back to the show...:cus:

OK... So I stayed on a long hold... Finally spoke to a helpful person @ BRP... Here is the lowdown.

At first she was the normal "I cannot help you that is the dealers function". I calmly informed her that I understood this to be the case, made clear that IMHO my dealer was top notch and I am very pleased to this point with their service. I am not happy however that the response so far from BRP not meeting my expectations by failing to appropriately help the service department ...

I proceeded to talk, not giving her a chance to insert a normal block response...

... I have two mechanical issues and two superficial issues. My dealer is taking care of the superficial issues as we speak, but have come to the end of the road on the two mechanical issues. And before I forget, You are not speaking to an 18 year old kid. I am the CEO/Owner of Business (Not going to post it here) and I guarantee you this is not a joke to me...

Further more, we paid cash for this vehicle with over $3k in additional BRP accessories from our dealer. We did not buy it to have it endanger our lives or sit in the garage.

All I am wanting to do is not allow this situation to get as bad as Toyota. Do we really need 85 deaths before you make this right?

She proceeded to change her tune very quickly, confirmed a few items, became very helpful, and told me my next step. And in the future if for any reason I am not getting the resolution I am looking for to call back right away.

So the end result is this...

Evidently they have a senior tech level. She raised our issue to them. But only our Dealer can speak with them and I am to call my dealer with this info for them to call this tech directly.

Well what do you know!!! My dealer called me back after getting off the phone with the Senior Tech... Instantly the Tech was aware of the issue, told my dealer exactly what was wrong (Three of the six pins on the clutch have a cheaper polymer type product that need to be changed to the bearing type), gave him the part numbers and was off the phone in minutes.

On top of that, BRP claims they are going to be sending out a notice (Can't remember what he called it) in a month specifically informing all of BRP service departments of this issue. It is not just the first 400 RT-S SE5 bikes with this issue....:lecturef_smilie:

So.... I also read somewhere that these bearing are on back-order. This means I have asked my dealer to put my bike back together and I will be by to pick it up tomorrow. I would rather "Baby" it until they can repair it than have it sit in the shop. :sour:

I hope this info ends up being helpful to those with a true issue, but does not add fuel to a "Fake" fire and make this out to be bigger than it needs to be. Every vehicle has recalls and updates. This looks to be one that an unknown amount of RT-S SE5's will be needing :thumbup:

 

[widowmaker2011]

My current thoughts on all this.... :trike:

Now back to the show...:cus:

OK... So I stayed on a long hold... Finally spoke to a helpful person @ BRP... Here is the lowdown.

At first she was the normal "I cannot help you that is the dealers function". I calmly informed her that I understood this to be the case, made clear that IMHO my dealer was top notch and I am very pleased to this point with their service. I am not happy however that the response so far from BRP not meeting my expectations by failing to appropriately help the service department ...

I proceeded to talk, not giving her a chance to insert a normal block response...

... I have two mechanical issues and two superficial issues. My dealer is taking care of the superficial issues as we speak, but have come to the end of the road on the two mechanical issues. And before I forget, You are not speaking to an 18 year old kid. I am the CEO/Owner of Business (Not going to post it here) and I guarantee you this is not a joke to me...

Further more, we paid cash for this vehicle with over $3k in additional BRP accessories from our dealer. We did not buy it to have it endanger our lives or sit in the garage.

All I am wanting to do is not allow this situation to get as bad as Toyota. Do we really need 85 deaths before you make this right?

She proceeded to change her tune very quickly, confirmed a few items, became very helpful, and told me my next step. And in the future if for any reason I am not getting the resolution I am looking for to call back right away.

So the end result is this...

Evidently they have a senior tech level. She raised our issue to them. But only our Dealer can speak with them and I am to call my dealer with this info for them to call this tech directly.

Well what do you know!!! My dealer called me back after getting off the phone with the Senior Tech... Instantly the Tech was aware of the issue, told my dealer exactly what was wrong (Three of the six pins on the clutch have a cheaper polymer type product that need to be changed to the bearing type), gave him the part numbers and was off the phone in minutes.

On top of that, BRP claims they are going to be sending out a notice (Can't remember what he called it) in a month specifically informing all of BRP service departments of this issue. It is not just the first 400 RT-S SE5 bikes with this issue....:lecturef_smilie:

So.... I also read somewhere that these bearing are on back-order. This means I have asked my dealer to put my bike back together and I will be by to pick it up tomorrow. I would rather "Baby" it until they can repair it than have it sit in the shop. :sour:

I hope this info ends up being helpful to those with a true issue, but does not add fuel to a "Fake" fire and make this out to be bigger than it needs to be. Every vehicle has recalls and updates. This looks to be one that an unknown amount of RT-S SE5's will be needing :thumbup:

Just food for thought- I am friends with the 3 closest BRP dealers to me and your issues would have been known and rectified (pending a back ordered part) on your first complaint. I am NOT mocking your dealer , but my point is this is a very well known issue with the SE5 models and all 3 dealers I deal with stay on top of these things. Not all dealers do , and with how VERY common this SE5 issue is (and its a straight forward easy fix) I would begin to perhaps think it may be time to look for a dealer with a little more competence in Spyders. Additionally if you give them the benefit of the doubt that they perhaps aren't in the loop with the Spyder mechanical issues yet, at very least a quick call to BRP's tech line with a brief description of your problem would have given them the repair info they needed on your first visit. Having been in the service field in motorsports and automobiles for over 25 years tells me your guys need to get on the stick so YOU get a better owner experience... :2thumbs:

 

[IWN2RYD]

Just food for thought- I am friends with the 3 closest BRP dealers to me and your issues would have been known and rectified (pending a back ordered part) on your first complaint. I am NOT mocking your dealer , but my point is this is a very well known issue with the SE5 models and all 3 dealers I deal with stay on top of these things. Not all dealers do , and with how VERY common this SE5 issue is (and its a straight forward easy fix) I would begin to perhaps think it may be time to look for a dealer with a little more competence in Spyders. Additionally if you give them the benefit of the doubt that they perhaps aren't in the loop with the Spyder mechanical issues yet, at very least a quick call to BRP's tech line with a brief description of your problem would have given them the repair info they needed on your first visit. Having been in the service field in motorsports and automobiles for over 25 years tells me your guys need to get on the stick so YOU get a better owner experience... :2thumbs:

You very well may be right! However, I have had a lot of conversations with them. They have been very responsive and get back to me in a short period of time. The issue may be they are so new, and they are having a few learning curves with BRP. My RT-S is the first one in their shop with these issues. All the rest of them are running without issue as far as they know.

So to them, without being able to re-produce the issues the potential for a driver learning curve had to be a part of their thinking. :dontknow:

I know they read the bulletins, because they told me about one I had not read anywhere as they assembled our RT-S. This helped me realize they are at least checking vs what I read here where many do not.

Not only that, but if you lived in this area, you would know the map of our roads do not express time to well. The nearest two other Spyder dealers are at least an hour away, and that is using I-5 to get to them!!! Not side roads.... One north one south. Yesterday it took me 72 minutes to travel 32 miles.... It rained and everyone's brains forgot how to drive I guess :roflblack:

Either way, you very well may be correct! But I will give them a good chance first before I change.

Even yesterday as they began to install our CB and GPS... They open the package to the CB and find one of the collars to connect it all was in pieces... sigh... So still no CB and communication on our RT-S... Not their fault... BRP's...:cus:

We hope they can at least get the GPS installed... :thumbup: I am tired of worrying if the suction cup will fail on the next bump :roflblack::roflblack:

 

[IWN2RYD]

Small update... We picked up our RT-S today, in an all day heavy ran... First time ever in the rain. I have to say.... WOW.. This is how I expected this baby to perform! I am so HAPPY!!!! :2thumbs:nojoke

I had 100x's more fun in my 45 minute drive (Yes "Drive") home today than have have ever had on the Spyder... That was AWESOME!!! hyea:hyea:

Yes, I pulled out to go across the street nice and calm to full up straight from the dealer, 1st gear to second, never went over 4K RPMs... Pulled up to the pump to fill up... Stayed moving forward and stalled!! BWahahahahaha.. Right in front of the dealership to boot!! :roflblack:

Oh well!! Man what a therapeutic feeling to ryde again!! hyea::2excited::2thumbs:

 

[VaughnCat]

Small update... We picked up our RT-S today, in an all day heavy ran... First time ever in the rain. I have to say.... WOW.. This is how I expected this baby to perform! I am so HAPPY!!!! :2thumbs:nojoke

I had 100x's more fun in my 45 minute drive (Yes "Drive") home today than have have ever had on the Spyder... That was AWESOME!!! hyea:hyea:

Yes, I pulled out to go across the street nice and calm to full up straight from the dealer, 1st gear to second, never went over 4K RPMs... Pulled up to the pump to fill up... Stayed moving forward and stalled!! BWahahahahaha.. Right in front of the dealership to boot!! :roflblack:

Oh well!! Man what a therapeutic feeling to ryde again!! hyea::2excited::2thumbs:

I know the feeling! :cus: Well, the good news is, BRP has released the necessary clutch parts and they should be in the dealerships (who have them on order) sometime next weekhyea:
So we can keep our fingers crossed ray: ......

Cat