Michigan Helmet Rights Ride

[Firefly]

Abate is again hosting the FREEDOM RALLY at the Capitol Steps @ noon on June 3rd.

I've never been to one of these - but I'm going this year. I assume that during the ride that riders don't wear helmets as they ride to the Capitol.

More info here:

http://www.abateofmichigan.org/FR&Map.pdf

http://www.abateofmichigan.org/index.html

My take on the issue is it isn't about safety at all - certainly wearing a helmet is safer - it's about our personal rights as adult citizens.

Let me know if anyone wants to join up and go!

 

[bone crusher]

I'm all in favor of mandatory helmet laws...same as seatbelts...they save lives. This is irrefutable.

Prevention of head injuries is quite important. This is not a personal rights issue to me as it becomes everyone's problem sooner or later if people are irresponsible with their own health.

I know plenty of paramedics and EMTs who are called to the scene of injuries from motorcycle crashes/accidents...they always talk about the helmet issue as those who don't wear adequate protection usually end up dead or as a vegetable...those who do wear will have the same other musculoskeletal injuries but they fare much better in the long run as they still have a functioning brain.

Go figure...

 

[WackyDan]

My last accident was August 1st of 2002. There is a reason I don't have that helmet (or the bike) anymore. Without that helmet I would have had far worse injuries. I'm a believer.

 

[Firefly]

As I said - no arguement here as to whether it's safer - but me choosing not to wear a helmet has zero affect on others. If my bike insurance or health insurance wants to charge me more because I choose to ride without - then so be it.

The idea that it costs everyone more if others decide not to wear helmets is weak at best. How many people end up on life support because they were wearing a helmet - when without one they would just be dead - which costs more?

I'm all for helmet laws and seatbelt laws for minors - but I'm an adult and don't need the government protecting me from myself. I pay thru the nose for my bike, car and health insurance.

I would still wear my helmet 90% of the time - and I've always worn a seatbelt - way before it was law. It should be my choice as a free American citizen.

 

[bone crusher]

As I said - no arguement here as to whether it's safer - but me choosing not to wear a helmet has zero affect on others. If my bike insurance or health insurance wants to charge me more because I choose to ride without - then so be it.

The idea that it costs everyone more if others decide not to wear helmets is weak at best. How many people end up on life support because they were wearing a helmet - when without one they would just be dead - which costs more?

I'm all for helmet laws and seatbelt laws for minors - but I'm an adult and don't need the government protecting me from myself. I pay thru the nose for my bike, car and health insurance.

I would still wear my helmet 90% of the time - and I've always worn a seatbelt - way before it was law. It should be my choice as a free American citizen.

Actually, all our insurances go up if there are more fatal accidents...that's not weak, that's actuarial charting...talk to AIG, they are masters at it...we're all grouped in together...the less cumulative injuries/deaths we have, the better it is for all of us...

My sentiment is to choose as an American to do things that are productive and beneficial to our fellow Americans...not use the ole 'I have rights' issue to do something that is not only extremely dangerous to self, but costs everyone else as well...

I'm not a socialist, but when it comes to safety issues with PROOF, I see nothing wrong with the gov't trying to protect us. If people don't want to be protected, then if they can do without without any effect on the rest of the society, then I'm all for that...unfortunately, this is very hard to do...

There are studies that prove that wearing a helmet saves lives...we have people who don't want to wear helmets...they use the ruse of 'I have rights' to make their case...I'm missing something here...this isn't a rights issue...it's an issue of life or death...

Fire, America is great...we can do as we wish (mostly)...however, when something is so blatantly foolish, sometimes we need to do the right thing (maybe these guys are suicidal)...why not just ride at night on a black bike with no lights and no reflective clothing?...most wouldn't because it's more dangerous...plus, you have to have lights on your bike or it's not legal...I guess next up is fighting for not having lights on a bike...who knows?

Safety first...

 

[Firefly]

Um - not having lights on a bike would affect others on the road in an adverse manner. Not wearing a helmet has no affect on anyone other than the rider. You can quote all the AIG stuff you want - it's an easy thing for them to use as an excuse to charge more on insurance.

What costs more - a funeral for a biker without a helmet - or 20 years of life support for someone who was wearing one.

How about this to make it fair - separate motorcycle insurance from car insurance altogether. Many insurance companies don't sell MC insurance - and you have the choice to go with a company for your other insurance that doesn't sell to bikers - or that charges bikers who don't wear helmets a lot more.

Again, remember that I'm not arguing that there isn't a HUGE safety factor here - but there is a personal freedom being lost - being portrayed as 'for the greater good'. So what's next? No more fries with my burger? No more red meat? No more beer? Heart desease from eating fatty foods costs FAR more in insurance claims than bikers without helmets ever could. Ditto on smoking. Are they going to make that illegal?

How about scuba diving, sky diving, mountain biking, crossing the street? People die doing these things all the time - should they be outlawed?

I really do respect your opinion---- I just disagree that what I do with my life (eating fries, riding without a helmet, drinking beer at home, etc. has an adverse affect on anyone but myself.

Mankind has no natural preditor anymore - so maybe humans doing stupid things is natures way of thinning out the herd - or cleaning the low end of the gene pool - .

 

[dltang]

Let me start by saying, I agree it is safer to wear a helmet and I always wear mine and also would 90 or more percent of the time if there was no helmet law in MI. BUTTTTT.....I, as and EMT agree wholeheartedly with Firefly. It should be our CHOICE. I have been at those accident scenes that most of you never want to see and I still think it should be a choice. I think the insurance costs issue is weak at best and the best example of this is smoking. Smoking has proven to do more harm to more people, even nonsmokers with second hand smoke. We transport more people with trouble breathing than Motorcycle accidents in any given day. That has a severe effect on the cost of insurance and I haven't seen them outlaw cigarettes. What it boils down to is we can't have the government regulate stupidity or non of us would ever be able to leave the house. I have heard, and some of the Floridians can chime in here and correct me if I am wrong, that in Florida you can get insurance rated on weather you intend to always ride with a helmet or not. I think that is the solution. If you want choices have choices. If I choose not to ride with a helmet and you think it will cost more in insurance than maybe I would pay a bit more in my premiums. But if you do that, you'd better be able to prove that me riding without my helmet is actually causing the costs to rise.

 

[bone crusher]

And this is why it is a debate...

To each our own, I guess...

We are each entitled to our opinions...I'll side with the studies on safety on this one...for those who want to choose, so be it...

Have fun riding no matter what you do and just stay on your bike and it doesn't matter!

Off to D.C. for me and the 300,000 other bikers...(wonder how many won't have helmets on...will keep count if I can)...

Enjoy...:doorag:

 

[fastfraser]

:thumbup:Ride safe. Ride with a helmet :thumbup:

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

Actually, all our insurances go up if there are more fatal accidents...that's not weak, that's actuarial charting...talk to AIG, they are masters at it...we're all grouped in together...the less cumulative injuries/deaths we have, the better it is for all of us...

My sentiment is to choose as an American to do things that are productive and beneficial to our fellow Americans...not use the ole 'I have rights' issue to do something that is not only extremely dangerous to self, but costs everyone else as well...

I'm not a socialist, but when it comes to safety issues with PROOF, I see nothing wrong with the gov't trying to protect us. If people don't want to be protected, then if they can do without without any effect on the rest of the society, then I'm all for that...unfortunately, this is very hard to do...

There are studies that prove that wearing a helmet saves lives...we have people who don't want to wear helmets...they use the ruse of 'I have rights' to make their case...I'm missing something here...this isn't a rights issue...it's an issue of life or death...

Fire, America is great...we can do as we wish (mostly)...however, when something is so blatantly foolish, sometimes we need to do the right thing (maybe these guys are suicidal)...why not just ride at night on a black bike with no lights and no reflective clothing?...most wouldn't because it's more dangerous...plus, you have to have lights on your bike or it's not legal...I guess next up is fighting for not having lights on a bike...who knows?

Safety first...

There are those who not only think the government should mandate helmet use for adults, but also outlaw motorcycles altogether. When that happens then the helmets become a moot point. We are now in the most socialistic times since our country was founded, so don't be surprised when this issue comes up, along with many others. UNCLE SAM IS NO LONGER YOUR UNCLE HE IS NOW YOUR DADDY!:lecturef_smilie:

 

[Arachnid]

I think that ride is sponsored by the Kidney Foundation.

Mike

 

[Firefly]

I think that ride is sponsored by the Kidney Foundation.

Mike

I don't wear a helmet on my kidneys either!

As Deb said - we cannot have our government regulating stupidity. I didn't mean for this to get into a big debate about the dangers of riding without a helmet - I think we all know it's more dangerous. And I realize getting into politics out here is a no-no, but I think we are at a point that we will start seeing a government allowing us all to have more personal freedoms - legalizing pot, same sex marriage, etc. are examples we are seeing right before our eyes. Government staying out of our personal lives - what a concept! :clap:

In the big picture considering other fights for personal freedoms, the helmet laws seem very minor.

Ride safe - whether with a helmet or not!

 

[SpyderByter]

I think that ride is sponsored by the Kidney Foundation.

Mike

Lots of good opinions here, but I have to go with choice. In CT we have mandatory helmet laws for permitees and minors. Adults can decide whether or not to be organ donors.

The bikers you see without helmets are usually just cruisin slowly. Depending on your shield setup, going too fast helmetless is just plain uncomfortable. Cruisin at a nice safe, steady speed with the sun on your face, you can't beat it.

I am wearing a helmet myself now moreso than I did on two wheels, but that is because with the Spyder, I am more likely to be on the highway, crossing state lines, driving at night, in lousy weather, etc. I was limited for time and distance on two wheels because of motor control issues with my legs. Helmets cetainly have advantages, but I think an adult rider should be able to choose when he/she wants to use them.

 

[NancysToy]

I used to believe in the rider's rights side of this issue. I no longer can do so with a clear conscience. I don't want to be mandated to death, but I now realize that I am stupid enough that I would probably sometime elect to ride without a helmet..."just this once." I am also smart enough to know it could, indeed, kill me or leave me a veggie. If I am not smart enough to protect myself against that possibility on my own, then I need the state to do it for me. 90% of the time is not enough!

I almost wish they would go so far as to mandate full face helmets. I wore an open face a lot until my 2004 crash. I happened to be wearing a full face that day due to cold, and took one right in the kisser. I no longer wear an open face helmet on the road. Same protests occurred years ago when the NHRA mandated three layer firesuits for fuel dragsters. We all screamed bloody murder, but many of us old drivers, including myself, are alive and intact today, having been saved by multi-layer firesuits. If it means a great deal to you, protest if you wish...or move to a no-helmet state. I, for one, have no problem with the law just as it stands.
-Scotty

 

[daddydarko]

Government paternalism has no place in America IMO but it seems we've embraced it as voters so enjoy BIGGER brother, America. Call me when the revolution starts. :gaah:

I will continue to ride sans DOT sticker until the day I die but my boys will wear FF helmets until they're old enough to decide for themselves (50ish).

I may try to catch this ride, FF. I dig what Abate is trying to accomplish.

 

[baldev]

Big brother was there way before this admin came into power and no matter who is trumpeting whose horn, in my opinion Republicans have had more govt intrusion than Democrats n I am a :helpsmilie:Republican.

The least amount of govt intrusion the better, helmet law or otherwise. We have a tendency to poke fun at undemocratic, autocratic foreign govt BUT sad to say we are now the laughing stock of the world. Govt intrusion anywhere and everywher as if living under a Gestapo.

The govt is here to stay just like communist Russia/China until we all wake up.

No helmet laws, no intrusive laws good or not, we should draw a line.

 

[bone crusher]

I can tell you all that most of the riders I met today at Rolling Thunder are definitely in the 'I want to choose' category. As Fire said, maybe it's a great way for Darwinian theories to play out...either way, it appears that most out there want the option...

 

[NancysToy]

...but my boys will wear FF helmets until they're old enough to decide for themselves (50ish).

:thumbup: :roflblack:

 

[Neez]

To me it seems odd to see people equating highway riding with basic rights, like freedom of religion or free speech. Face it, operating a motor vehicle on a public roadway is, and must be, a highly regulated activity. The regulations do not exist as some sinister plot to rob us of our liberties, but to safeguard the traveling public. That would be all the public, even the foolhardy.

 

[reinie]

I wear a Helmet but support free choice

I always wear a helmet. In fact one saved my life back in 2001. If other bikers don't want them, I'm ok with that. 90% of the time it is some jerk with four wheels under his/her butt that kills a biker. They are forced to wear seatbelts and pay for their airbags etc. for their protective cages, so most of them could care less if they kill a biker. The legal system mostly supports the "they were on a motorcycle so they deserve to die" attitude that still persists. It doesn't much matter that most people who ride are just ordinary mom & pop types who pay their taxes, buy licenses & insurance to legally use the same streets & roads. I say let them ride with or without helmets and educate the masses of cage drivers that we're out there among them.