Lithium battery

[GeoffCee]

Biggest amp draw on the Spyder, other than the starter, is the DPS. Beyond that think lights, heated grips, etc. The Spyder has a substantial parasitic load.

I hadn't realised the DPS was such a power hungry device, probably because it does its job for the most part without notice. I guess I would soon appreciate its loss if the DPS was to fail suddenly, I've noticed how hard it is to turn those two front wheels when the motor is stopped.

I don't care for the term "parasitic" in relation to Spyder components placing a legitimate load on the electrical generating system. "Parasite" in normal parlance has unfortunate connotations allied to the invasion of a body by harmful alien organisms, etc. But I fully understand why the term is used. :shocked:

"Symbiotic" would do equally well, there are symbiotic relationships throughout nature where two very diverse life forms benefit equally from each other's existence and there is no doubt that the Spyder benefits from every electrical component in its makeup. :ani29: :f_spider::spyder:

 

[Lamonster]

I hadn't realised the DPS was such a power hungry device, probably because it does its job for the most part without notice. I guess I would soon appreciate its loss if the DPS was to fail suddenly, I've noticed how hard it is to turn those two front wheels when the motor is stopped.

The DPS is pretty much the same as a starter motor but it only turns as needed.

 

[GeoffCee]

The DPS is pretty much the same as a starter motor but it only turns as needed.

Wow! Now here is an excellent example of a picture being worth a thousand words!

Broken down into its component parts like that you can see it really is a motor and I guess it's reacting to steering inputs for much of the time, especially on the twisties.

Is the dollop of blue soft-looking stuff grease or a sealant of some kind? :dontknow:

 

[reggystan]

Hi guys, there has been a lot of discussions about Lithium ion batteries and it is definitely a growing market, there are pros and cons with any product. Obviously in the motor-sports competition, weight is a factor so this is a big plus for them switching over to this type of batteries. Downside is Lithium ion is flammable and could explode that's why they are not approved to be air transported in certain volumes.

A few months ago we became a distributor for Shorai power batteries but we have not launched it on our site as of yet because we test every product ourselves first. I've been testing a 12V 36AH Lithium battery on my Spyder, It is not an Ion but a Lithium iron based. These are not your cell cylindrical based like your power tools but actually look similar to a typical motorcycle battery. Ok so here is the specs that I think you guys would like to know.

For our Spyder they have 3 different versions, 12V 24 aH, 27AH and a 36AH battery. I replaced my Odyssey battery that was on my spyder and when I took it out I put it on the scale and it weighed 15lbs, I put the shorai battery on the scale and it would not register being it was so light. I put it on my postal scale and it registered less than 4.13 lbs. Significant savings and when you compare the numbers it completely outweighs any lead acid type of battery. When you pick up this battery you think it was a prop battery with nothing in it, thats how light it seems. The size is also about 3/4 the size but the kit comes with a foam padding that you simply build around the battery to fit your existing box. This also gives it an extra cushion for your battery. Heres some specs for the battery I'm using. 12V, 36A, 540 CCA cold cranking amps (more than twice of the Odyssey at 220)

It will hold a charge for one year with no maintenance, military spec carbon composite case, safe non explosive gas (approved by Fedex and UPS for air transport worldwide, environmentally friendly, if you needed to recharge it you can use a battery tender that you use now to trickle charge it as long as it does not have a de sulfating mode on it. This eliminates the need to buy expensive Lithium specific chargers. the rate of discharge is 1/7 that of a lead acid battery.

Currently we have about 2000 miles on it so far and by August we will conclude our test and should have another 3000 miles on it. We're testing this from the weather in South Florida to Canada. As for the cost I've figured they are charging about $10 per AH. When we carry them we'll offer free shipping to our customers. Anyway hope this helps

Maybe I'm still missing something here but the battery in the Spyder RT is rated at 21 Ah where as the largest antigravity battery is 9.2 AH.

 

[Tonga]

Charging??

I am confused with charging of the Lithium battery??? Does it not get charged while the Spyder is running?? Do you mean that it keeps it's charge for a year while in storage? Please explain, thanks.

 

[Bob Denman]

Well I left a message for them asking about higher capacity batteries... If they respond I'll let you guys know about it!

 

[reggystan]

Yes it can hold a charge for over a year in storage with no battery maintainer.

I am confused with charging of the Lithium battery??? Does it not get charged while the Spyder is running?? Do you mean that it keeps it's charge for a year while in storage? Please explain, thanks.

 

[NancysToy]

I hadn't realised the DPS was such a power hungry device, probably because it does its job for the most part without notice. I guess I would soon appreciate its loss if the DPS was to fail suddenly, I've noticed how hard it is to turn those two front wheels when the motor is stopped.

I don't care for the term "parasitic" in relation to Spyder components placing a legitimate load on the electrical generating system. "Parasite" in normal parlance has unfortunate connotations allied to the invasion of a body by harmful alien organisms, etc. But I fully understand why the term is used. :shocked:

"Symbiotic" would do equally well, there are symbiotic relationships throughout nature where two very diverse life forms benefit equally from each other's existence and there is no doubt that the Spyder benefits from every electrical component in its makeup. :ani29: :f_spider::spyder:

:roflblack: "Parasitic" load probably is a poor choice of words, although it is the standard term used. "Normal" load would probably suffice, but it isn't very descriptive, and consists of both continuous, intermittent, and user selected loads. At any rate, the normal loads placed on a Spyder are sufficient to tax the charging system, or even outpace it at lower rpm. A large battery capacity is a very good idea for this vehicle, IMO.

 

[Bob Denman]

Well they got back to me... I'll let the experts amongst us decide if what they're saying makes a lick of sense... pps:


Hi Robert,
We do have a 20-cell that is not on the website. The 20-cell battery is PbEq( Lead Equivalent) of an 18-amp hour Lead
battery...yet has MORE than twice cranking amps of the 18 Amp Hour Lead acid... It has 600 Cranking amps compared
to the leads 270- 290 Cranking amps. And the 20-cell only weighs 3.8 pounds compared to about 14 lbs on the Lead/acid.
A 24-cell which we could custom make has a couple issues with it...First off, the expense, then the fact that it would
have a monstrous 720 Cranking amps which isn't really needed except for big Car Race motors or massive V- twins. So it
just not economic for the rider, unless you race cars.
As for needing the 21 Amp Hours, that would depend on your type of riding actually. In theory the alternator on the
bike should be powering all the accessories on the bikes plus some after market accessories and still have output to
charge the battery. So in most real riding applications you would never come close to needing a 21 Amp Hour battery...
BUT if you are running heated grips, heated vests, extra lighting at night then there would be no energy to charge the
battery so the battery would be running at a deficit and THAT is when your 21 or 18 Amp Hour battery would be of
benefit, it would supply extra power to keep everything functioning. But that is actually a rare occasion on modern
tourers. bu the manufactures do put the big batteries in expecting that people may be playing stereo for a while while
the bike is not running. Also riding all night in the freezing cold with every accessory running would be better to have
the super high amp hour capacity. But if you ride moderately and do weekly tours and don't play the stereo for hour
while the bike is off... then you would actually be fine with 15-18 Amp hours.
To explain a little about lead vs lithium...with Lithium you do not quite have as many amp hours as Lead from appearance,
but that is a bit misleading... You actually do have better amp hour performance in certain circumstances. The reason is
this... the Amp Hour rating is given to lead acid batteries at a very low amp draw like .5 amps... that is where lead
works great. but when lead is made to operate under a load of say 3-10 amps it does not function well at all and looses
capacity much quicker than Lithium does. So its very hard to get and apples to apples comparison in Amp Hour rating...
But Lithium works much better under a real load and retains its voltage longer under a higher load. Also Lead has a
natural discharge that lithium does not... so if a bike sits for 6 months and does not have a parasitic drain the
lithium will not lose voltage whereas lead has a "natural discharge" that loses voltage regardless of anything being
connected
So to answer your question.. we offer an 18Amp Hour equivalent (20-cell) for a Lead battery but not a 21 amp hour
equivalent that would be very cost effective. The 20-cell would start you bike much better due to the fact of the faster
turnover and higher voltage on start up.
Regards,
scott-

 

[boborgera]

Well they got back to me... I'll let the experts amongst us decide if what they're saying makes a lick of sense... pps:


Hi Robert,
We do have a 20-cell that is not on the website. The 20-cell battery is PbEq( Lead Equivalent) of an 18-amp hour Lead
battery...yet has MORE than twice cranking amps of the 18 Amp Hour Lead acid... It has 600 Cranking amps compared
to the leads 270- 290 Cranking amps. And the 20-cell only weighs 3.8 pounds compared to about 14 lbs on the Lead/acid.
A 24-cell which we could custom make has a couple issues with it...First off, the expense, then the fact that it would
have a monstrous 720 Cranking amps which isn't really needed except for big Car Race motors or massive V- twins. So it
just not economic for the rider, unless you race cars.
As for needing the 21 Amp Hours, that would depend on your type of riding actually. In theory the alternator on the
bike should be powering all the accessories on the bikes plus some after market accessories and still have output to
charge the battery. So in most real riding applications you would never come close to needing a 21 Amp Hour battery...
BUT if you are running heated grips, heated vests, extra lighting at night then there would be no energy to charge the
battery so the battery would be running at a deficit and THAT is when your 21 or 18 Amp Hour battery would be of
benefit, it would supply extra power to keep everything functioning. But that is actually a rare occasion on modern
tourers. bu the manufactures do put the big batteries in expecting that people may be playing stereo for a while while
the bike is not running. Also riding all night in the freezing cold with every accessory running would be better to have
the super high amp hour capacity. But if you ride moderately and do weekly tours and don't play the stereo for hour
while the bike is off... then you would actually be fine with 15-18 Amp hours.
To explain a little about lead vs lithium...with Lithium you do not quite have as many amp hours as Lead from appearance,
but that is a bit misleading... You actually do have better amp hour performance in certain circumstances. The reason is
this... the Amp Hour rating is given to lead acid batteries at a very low amp draw like .5 amps... that is where lead
works great. but when lead is made to operate under a load of say 3-10 amps it does not function well at all and looses
capacity much quicker than Lithium does. So its very hard to get and apples to apples comparison in Amp Hour rating...
But Lithium works much better under a real load and retains its voltage longer under a higher load. Also Lead has a
natural discharge that lithium does not... so if a bike sits for 6 months and does not have a parasitic drain the
lithium will not lose voltage whereas lead has a "natural discharge" that loses voltage regardless of anything being
connected
So to answer your question.. we offer an 18Amp Hour equivalent (20-cell) for a Lead battery but not a 21 amp hour
equivalent that would be very cost effective. The 20-cell would start you bike much better due to the fact of the faster
turnover and higher voltage on start up.
Regards,
scott-

:dontknow:
Robert AKA Bob, I can't read all that [dyslexia] can you just give an synopsis?:roflblack:

 

[Bob Denman]

Uh... they REALLY like their batteries; maybe we should too??? :shocked:
Although I DID get that they've got a 20 cell, 18 amp-hr battery that rocks the house with cranking power! :clap:


The only person who calls me "Robert" is my Missus when she's set on KILL mode...:yikes:

 

[cougar]

What triggers "KILL" mode??

 

[GeoffCee]

The only person who calls me "Robert" is my Missus when she's set on KILL mode...:yikes:

Hey, I got one of those, too. Who'd a thought we'd have such a thing in common? Mine calls me "Geoffrey" when she's about to break my old bones.

[I was christened "Geoffrey" (it's Old High German meaning "at peace with God"). I looked my name up in a huge dictionary my uncle kept in his study, I think when I was about eight or nine years old. Knowing the origin and meaning of my name made me feel quite holy for a spell but the feeling disappeared about the time I became fascinated by a girl in the next street who had bumps in her blouse. I remember being really interested in those bumps but I was never allowed near enough to satisfy my curiosity... I don't know what she looked like cos I never raised up my eyes enough to see her face. It didn't last, I got a new pair of roller skates for my birthday and I was cured.]

 

[Bob Denman]

What triggers "KILL" mode??

If I knew I wouldn't spend so much time in hiding...

Uh-oh...:shocked:

 

[draboo]

What triggers "KILL" mode??

"Honey, come take a look at this cool drinkholder/gps/oil cooler they have out for the Spyder! I gotta have one!!"

"WHAT WAS THAT YOU SAID,RAWWWBERT??":roflblack:

 

[Bob Denman]

I'm a bit more like an old crow... dangle something shiny in my field of view and I lock on to it... and she reaches for a sidearm! :shocked: :yikes: