Let's get a handle on what it means to ride as a group vs solo

[Pirate looks at --]

Funny how everyone has opinions and rules about group rides, and then say they hate group rides. You're not alone.

IMO the best group ride is just you and a couple of friends. We've had the best "group" rides where the only rules were no crashes and no tickets. We've had as many as a dozen friends on rides, but break up the "squadron" into "flights" of 3 and 4 riders. There's a fast, medium, and slow group, each with a leader and a route map. Never lost anybody or had any drama.

The worst rides are large groups with strangers who you can't trust on ability or attitude, and too many rules. Been on large charity rides full of sketchy riders and too much pressure to maintain formation. Safety is compromised and fun is sucked out of them.

We ryde in the Local Ride For Kids event and the thing that saves that event is that it is CHP escorted. They control every intersection until the entire ride makes it through the intersection, and then they speed on to the next. We never stop for an hour and a half!

 

[Big F]

I agree with everything said above. IF riding as a group, then ALL the above guidelines need to be followed meticulously. The problem is, they're not. In my experience, group rides with clubs and on rallies generally adhere to the guidelines, but; a) some guidelines, such as max group size of 7, are routinely ignored and b) the group will set off assuming that all participants are familiar with and committed to following ALL the rules without ensuring they do.

Given this, in my humble opinion, it is better to abandon any attempt to keep riders together on a ride and instead let each person ride their own ride, with periodic planned stops to reconnoiter, have lunch together and ensure everyone is okay. The leader's role then becomes to pick the best route, provide written directions and set a safe, steady pace. The sweep (who should be in contact with the leader periodically) is there to watch out for stragglers, folks who have a technical problem, etc.[/QUOTE


WOW! I can't believe the various posts on group riding???? We have a fairly active club and have a group ride each month (weather permitting) and at least two rides during our annual Spyderfever rally. We simply do not have any issues as we meet before leaving on a ride and explain our procedures. We have group leaders that have a colored flag on their Spyder and have from 5 to 7 Spyder ryders behind them. All group leaders know the route, etc. and are responsible for their group. This format has worked many times through all of the stop signs, stop lights, etc. and have never lost anyone or had any issues.
Maybe because we are NISR (Nebraska Iowa Spyder Ryders) and are actually "NICER"??? Just ask all of the participants at our recent Spyderfever rally how well organized our rides are.
BIG F (co-founder of NISR)

 

[asp125]

I've been on rides where there is a riders meeting, clear leaders and sweeps, and clear expectations of what to do etc. Those rides usually proceed without too much drama.

One ride that my friends were on (I could not make it), that was exactly what caused problems. I heard afterwards that a visiting rider used to structured group rides was not sufficiently briefed on the rather casual rules, and got left behind at the lunch stop. Needless to say that left bad feelings between the riders and the visitor.

 

[Pirate looks at --]

The key is consistency! You never assume that everybody has heard this before, as you may have visitors that are unfamiliar with the " rules" and safety measures. You can come to any of our rydes and with the exception of route specific information, we always go over the same information!

 

[UtahPete]

We have a fairly active club and have a group ride each month (weather permitting) and at least two rides during our annual Spyderfever rally. We simply do not have any issues as we meet before leaving on a ride and explain our procedures. We have group leaders that have a colored flag on their Spyder and have from 5 to 7 Spyder ryders behind them. All group leaders know the route, etc. and are responsible for their group. This format has worked many times through all of the stop signs, stop lights, etc. and have never lost anyone or had any issues. Just ask all of the participants at our recent Spyderfever rally how well organized our rides are. BIG F (co-founder of NISR)

I'm hoping to attend next year's SpyderFever rally; it sounds like fun. I believe, having recently driven through Nebraska, you have a very different terrain than many of the people who are posting here. Can you describe what kind of countryside your rides encompass, the density of traffic, prevalence of obscured vision in curves, etc?

The riding groups you describe are relatively small (5-7 bikes); what do you do when there are 15 bikes or more showing up for a ride?

I'm also interested in knowing what you mean by leaders being responsible for their group; that can mean different things to different people.

The purpose of this thread is to share information and group riding experiences and everyone's input is valid, I think.

 

[Lew L]

Group rides.

As we stated during our rydes at the Nor-Cal Rally we wanted the Jack Rabbits up front, and those that want to smell the roses at the back. We had a lead and a sweep, and another Road Captain in the middle of the group. We advertised our rydes as Level 4, meaning that they were long and technical, and not for beginners. We had lots of short rydes for the beginners. All Road Captains knew where we were going, and where we were stopping along the way. So should we ever split there was always a leader to assist anyone along the way. Interesting though, because we designated the difficulty of the ryde, and because I took it a bit slower than I would on my own, we all stayed together really nicely. We had 12 motorcycles one day and 13 the next. Anymore becomes a nightmare. And communication between lead and sweep is essential to a quality group ryde, especially if you get more than 7 motorcycles as mentioned above. One more key factor is we ALWAYS pre-ryde our route as close to the actual date as possible so we know road conditions are going to be acceptable! Oh, and AccuWeather is a huge help too! I have a great sweep, she keeps me in line.

.
NOr-Cal Spyder Rally rydes were great ( Mostly) Your ryde to Ebbets pass was great and enjoyable. Looking forward next Nor-Cal rallynojoke

Kaos

 

[UtahPete]

.
NOr-Cal Spyder Rally rydes were great ( Mostly) Your ryde to Ebbets pass was great and enjoyable. Looking forward next Nor-Cal rally Kaos

I agree. I'm just trying to figure out why I feel that way about that ride. In spite of the heavy traffic going through towns at the start of the ride, multiple stop lights, road work, etc, I didn't feel stressed out or feel that kind of negative energy from the other riders (13 bikes as I recall). Why? These are the thoughts that occur to me;

1. It happened on the last day of the rally, after most strangers had become acquaintances. So, the pre-ride camaraderie was palpable already.
2. Larry (the leader-in-front) is pleasant, easy-going and inspired confidence with his review of the rules in a manner that encouraged cooperation rather than demanding it.
3. There were 3 experienced 'leaders' on the ride, all of whom had ridden together extensively and were comfortable with the role they were to play on the ride.
4. In the pre-ride briefing, Larry described very well the anticipated obstacles to group riding (traffic lights, congestion, etc) and explained how the group was going to deal with it.
5. Larry exuded enthusiasm for the route and the stops, describing what to look for along the way and what to expect at the lunch stop.
6. With a third leader in the middle of the pack, separated riders were easily rounded up and herded back into the group, which took pressure off the individual riders.

Anything else you can think of, Lew?

 

[Lew L]

I agree. I'm just trying to figure out why I feel that way about that ride. In spite of the heavy traffic going through towns at the start of the ride, multiple stop lights, road work, etc, I didn't feel stressed out or feel that kind of negative energy from the other riders (13 bikes as I recall). Why? These are the thoughts that occur to me;

1. It happened on the last day of the rally, after most strangers had become acquaintances. So, the pre-ride camaraderie was palpable already.
2. Larry (the leader-in-front) is pleasant, easy-going and inspired confidence with his review of the rules in a manner that encouraged cooperation rather than demanding it.
3. There were 3 experienced 'leaders' on the ride, all of whom had ridden together extensively and were comfortable with the role they were to play on the ride.
4. In the pre-ride briefing, Larry described very well the anticipated obstacles to group riding (traffic lights, congestion, etc) and explained how the group was going to deal with it.
5. Larry exuded enthusiasm for the route and the stops, describing what to look for along the way and what to expect at the lunch stop.
6. With a third leader in the middle of the pack, separated riders were easily rounded up and herded back into the group, which took pressure off the individual riders.

Anything else you can think of, Lew?

Yah, The ride back over Sonora pass with you was a good , well paced ride.

 

[Easy Rider]

There is one item that hasn't been mentioned yet and could be important. That is a group briefing.

Our "group" does continuous safety "briefings" for the regular members and a quick outline for new members .....AND......the club officers don't have a problem talking to "problem" riders in a calm and adult manner.

A scant few have left the group after a talk like that......but most actually appreciate it and are better riders for it.

 

[UtahPete]

Our "group" does continuous safety "briefings" for the regular members and a quick outline for new members .....AND......the club officers don't have a problem talking to "problem" riders in a calm and adult manner. A scant few have left the group after a talk like that......but most actually appreciate it and are better riders for it.

Tact and diplomacy are essential qualities in leadership of all kinds - as well as the backbone to tackle difficult subjects. Thanks.

 

[ARtraveler]

There is one item that hasn't been mentioned yet and could be important. That is a group briefing. Items that could be covered are safety, timing, planned route, and stops just to name a few. Of course this isn't necessary if riding solo, but you might want to inform someone of your plans in case of an emergency. Dale

Group briefing was a regular part of the group rides which I mentioned earlier in my post. :thumbup:

 

[asp125]

. Also, the inclusion of a stop for pie and/or ice cream also makes for a happy group ride.

 

[Easy Rider]

• Make sure to explain the rules before every ride

If it is the same old group, a quick reminder of the speed, spacing and courtesy items should be plenty.
Don't want to preach.

 

[Easy Rider]

. Also, the inclusion of a stop for pie and/or ice cream also makes for a happy group ride.

Our group never rides without some kind of food stop figured in.
Well, almost never.

 

[UtahPete]

The "fasties" go first, followed by the "not so fasties" followed by those who "don't care when they get there" and any newbies, and then tail end Charley. The general guidelines of; no overtaking in the last group; move into the next group if you feel comfortable at a rest stop; no pressuring the rider in front, all apply and are very well accepted. ... the basic group has been riding together for 20 years, with many "guests".

This seems like a pretty good starting point for establishing ride protocol. Thanks!

 

[UtahPete]

So far what I'm hearing is;

• Keep the rules to the minimum necessary for conditions
• Break larger groups into smaller groups (ideal group/subgroup size is 6-7); fast riders, followed by intermediate riders, followed by casual riders, followed by the 'tail-end Charlie' 'tail-gunner' 'sweep'
• Make sure to explain the rules before every ride and how they might apply to anticipated conditions on this ride (i.e. make them relevant to the group and the ride)
• Ensure leaders on a ride are familiar with each other and have a means of communicating with each other during the ride; absent adequate communication, provide for frequent stops as necessary to check in with each other
• Make sure that leaders know the rules, the route and current conditions on the ride (i.e. ideally, ride the route prior to the group ride)
• Communicate the leader's expectations of participants in a positive, upbeat manner that encourages team-work and ride enjoyment.

And, provide for a fun food stop!

Comments?

 

[BUZZARD II]

Thirty or so years ago I was VP of a very large Blue Knights chapter. (175) We would have weekly rides with maybe a dozen regulars. All good and experienced riders, it was a great time.

I also rode in a few benefit rides of a few thousand. After the second or third I came to the conclusion that, "a chain is as strong as it's weakest link" I also decided that if I was going to get hurt on a motorcycle I wanted it to be my fault. No more big groups.

Now I only ride with a group of, at most, six. We all know each other and have done a number of cross country rides together. Mostly as just two and last year for a month, three.

This year a couple of us have done Valcourt, Americade and three of us leave next week for Maggie Valley. While we will ride to these rally's we avoid the group rides like the plague, or at least I do.

A couple of my buddies keep trying to get me to ride in the Washington DC Rolling Thunder run, NEVER HAPPEN.

 

[UtahPete]

Thirty or so years ago I was VP of a very large Blue Knights chapter. (175) We would have weekly rides with maybe a dozen regulars. All good and experienced riders, it was a great time. I also rode in a few benefit rides of a few thousand. After the second or third I came to the conclusion that, "a chain is as strong as it's weakest link" I also decided that if I was going to get hurt on a motorcycle I wanted it to be my fault. No more big groups. Now I only ride with a group of, at most, six. We all know each other and have done a number of cross country rides together. Mostly as just two and last year for a month, three. This year a couple of us have done Valcourt, Americade and three of us leave next week for Maggie Valley. While we will ride to these rally's we avoid the group rides like the plague, or at least I do. A couple of my buddies keep trying to get me to ride in the Washington DC Rolling Thunder run, NEVER HAPPEN.

Thanks for the response. You bring up some valid points. I was at one time considering joining the Run For The Wall annual ride but ultimately decided that was more for the camaraderie and catharsis I sought at the time and otherwise probably would not be a good experience for me. Until recently I've been avoiding group rides 'like the plague'.

But I had a good experience at NoCal SR, including the group rides, so I know it is possible to conduct group rides well.

I'm now seeking a way to pick the brains of those who have participated in or led successful fun group rides so that we can maybe raise the bar enough to get people like you and I interested in participating again in group rides, which do have a certain appeal if done right.

 

[NorCalBud]

I believe....

I understand and agree that most Club Rydes are not the same as Rally Rydes. But, our club rydes are often consisting of more than 10+ Spyders and includes Newbies or Guests.
There are several factors that allow our group rydes to be as successful as they are. I believe that one of the top reasons could be that not only do we always have a Pre-ryde talk with the group to go over safety/spacing/staggering/signals/etc and what is expected by every ryder on that ryde, we ensure that each ryder is familiar with the "Breadcrumbs" method of group ryding. This method states that if a group becomes split, the last rider in the front group will pull over at the next turn and wait for the trailing group to catch up. It is expected that a ryder is never to make a turn until they are sure that the ryder behind them knows that they are to also turn. I think that this takes a lot of the pressure and anxiety off of the entire group. This allows for a fun and safe experience to be had by everyone on the Ryde.

http://www.mikeuhl.com/blog/2012/9/2/tips-for-group-riding.html

 

[UtahPete]

I believe that one of the top reasons could be that not only do we always have a Pre-ryde talk with the group to go over safety/spacing/staggering/signals/etc and what is expected by every ryder on that ryde, we ensure that each ryder is familiar with the "Breadcrumbs" method of group ryding. This method states that if a group becomes split, the last rider in the front group will pull over at the next turn and wait for the trailing group to catch up. It is expected that a ryder is never to make a turn until they are sure that the ryder behind them knows that they are to also turn. I think that this takes a lot of the pressure and anxiety off of the entire group. This allows for a fun and safe experience to be had by everyone on the Ryde. http://www.mikeuhl.com/blog/2012/9/2/tips-for-group-riding.html

Bud, that was the first time I encountered the bread-crumb method and I was impressed with how simple it is to implement. Thanks!