Latest Update(steering)from dealer

[BLACK WIDOW]

Recall

There were way more than a couple, more like 36,000+ nojoke
http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/recalls/honda-gl1800/

http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2712041&postcount=28

http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/rewelds

My 2003 was recalled but the weld was good on it. They re-welded it anyway. All of the ones they recalled weren't bad but all were re-welded. The other recalls I guess I missed or the dealer took care of them during routine maintenance. The Wing has been pretty much trouble free for me.nojoke But so far the Spyder has also.

Michael:doorag:

 

[aubierules]

Update: This thursday is 10 weeks in the shop. Still no GPS to see if it fixes the DPS. I guess I am ok with it(SOMEWHAT) better than going and getting it with a temp fix then having to take it back.

I have a Polaris 4wheeler that has no power steering/it has nobby tires and I can turn it just fine. I don't see the need in having power steering on the spyder. To me that would be a permanent fix/do away with the power steering. I haven't been aware of riding it without it, not sure if it is hard to steer or not.

i have a yamaha 4wheeler too....mine turns ok without power steering, (in the dirt)but ya put it on asphalt and its a bear...

 

[NancysToy]

"I have a Polaris 4wheeler that has no power steering/it has nobby tires and I can turn it just fine. I don't see the need in having power steering on the spyder. To me that would be a permanent fix/do away with the power steering. I haven't been aware of riding it without it, not sure if it is hard to steer or not."

Interesting thought. It had occurred to me that an easy fix would just be to do away with it and move on in life. The machine is light to begin with and I could think of a couple of ways to lighten up the steering mechanically. I do believe a number of Spyders were delivered with no power steering and the owner did not even know what he/she was missing. In hindsight they were not missing anything and were probably better off.

After I bought the SPyder I went ATV shopping. I went to a Honda dealer because they were offering an ATV with power steering. The salesman encourage me to buy one without power steering because they were having too many problems with the power steering. Hmmm. So I went ahead and bought a BRP Outlander because of the reliability of the Rotax engine. Having had three Rotax engine failures this year maybe I should have taken the Honda with the power steering problems. Oh well...

I believe that electrical power steering is just not ready for prime time but that is what we have. If I have it I want it to work. But I could live without it. On the other hand, I don't want it to kill me either which mine has tried to do on several occasions.

It makes for good whining material in during the cold wet winter.

Respectfully.........There is a lot more involved to the steering than simply power or no-power. If the Polaris went 130 mph with those knobbies, it would be a fair comparision, but steering ratios must be lower in high speed machines, making them harder to steer at low speeds. The steering geometry plays into it, too, with an inability to provide the easier turning geometry in a higher speed machine, due to the need for high speed stability. Those factors are also the reason the Spyder power steering has variable assist, helping more at low speeds...and none at highway speeds.

Do I think there is a problem with at least some of the Spyder steering units...yes. Do I think there is a problem with other components or connections affecting the steering sometimes...yes to that, too. Do I think we should get rid of electric power steering units altogether as a result...certainly not! The one on my wife's HHR works just fine. It is not the concept that is at fault, but the execution of the concept. Not everyone is capable of riding this machine with no power steering. Would you deprive my wife of her first road motorcycle simply because you want to eliminate electric power steering, and you can handle it OK? What we need is the reasons for these failures...and then the cure. There were difficulties with the first automobiles, but we are not all still riding horses as a result.

 

[boborgera]

[QUOTE=Recluze;

I believe that electrical power steering is just not ready for prime time but that is what we have. If I have it I want it to work. But I could live without it. On the other hand, I don't want it to kill me either which mine has tried to do on several occasions.
:agree:
I agree, The only other way would be variable hydraulic steering.
Aside from the engineering problems, you would lose at least 15+ H/P.
And really complicate an already complicated system
P/S Every now and then my steering tries to get me too!!:shocked:
I'll take it in when BRP figures it out ray: , I'm not going to leave it
at a dealer for weeks/months, i ride every day.

 

[Way2Fast]

I do believe that many owners, especially women, require power steering to be comfortable riding their Spyders. As for myself, I don't need it or want it The steering on my bike never had power from the day I brought it home and I didn't miss what I didn't know I should have had. But even with non operational PS I still had control problems. Since removing ALL electrical power to the system I haven't had any more issues, but I did very little riding since then to know for sure if the control issue won't return. I'm patiently waiting for a real fix and hope BRP doesn't let owners down.

 

[retread]

what's interesting is, GM, and probably other companies, have had electric power steering in their cars for years. I'm wondering how many sensor inputs they're using as opposed to BRP. IMHO, the power part of the steering isn't needed above about 10 mph, so why not just shut it off at that speed?

john

 

[Smylinacha]

Hmmmm, I believe mine has always had power steering. I'm thinking about removing that in the Spring just once to see how difficult it would be without it. If they don't have an answer by the new season (which is around March for me), then I feel I'd be better off w/out the power steering if I can handle ryding it that way. Right? At least I won't have to worry about what if it gets stuck again or what if I end up getting it stuck and have an "over correction" problem.

 

[NancysToy]

If I am not mistaken, the Spyder will revert to limp mode if you remove the fuses after the steering recall update has been done.

 

[groundeffect]

If I am not mistaken, the Spyder will revert to limp mode if you remove the fuses after the steering recall update has been done.

I've heard the same, but it would be good if someone could test and confirm this. -- if it would not hurt the Spyder in any way, that is --

 

[stgilmer]

Respectfully.........There is a lot more involved to the steering than simply power or no-power. If the Polaris went 130 mph with those knobbies, it would be a fair comparision, but steering ratios must be lower in high speed machines, making them harder to steer at low speeds. The steering geometry plays into it, too, with an inability to provide the easier turning geometry in a higher speed machine, due to the need for high speed stability. Those factors are also the reason the Spyder power steering has variable assist, helping more at low speeds...and none at highway speeds.

Do I think there is a problem with at least some of the Spyder steering units...yes. Do I think there is a problem with other components or connections affecting the steering sometimes...yes to that, too. Do I think we should get rid of electric power steering units altogether as a result...certainly not! The one on my wife's HHR works just fine. It is not the concept that is at fault, but the execution of the concept. Not everyone is capable of riding this machine with no power steering. Would you deprive my wife of her first road motorcycle simply because you want to eliminate electric power steering, and you can handle it OK? What we need is the reasons for these failures...and then the cure. There were difficulties with the first automobiles, but we are not all still riding horses as a result.

:agree: Some people couldn't ride the spyder if it didn't have the power steering, and I think it is wonderful that it gives those the freedom that others take for granted. That just sends an extra chill up my spine thinking that if someone is riding that needs the power steering and it malfunctions like it did with me and many others, I don't think they would be able to put the force against it needed to break it loose and regain control. Hopefully it won't ever come to that/situation like that is nightmare material.

I plan on calling in the morning to see if they have atleast got the GPS yet, but I ask myself over and over if they did, do I want it back with a new DPS/GPS..Not ever being told that it was the solution/just a wait and see if it works. Don't get me wrong, it cold here and I want it back like its supposed to be so I can bundle up and ride. Will update tomorrow::ray:

 

[Questions]

I'm getting nervous that there might not be a fix for this that is financially sound for BRP to do. I do not know much about bikes but you can't tell me if this is most important on there list, which I assume it is because of potential lawsuits, that they have not figured out the cause. THis has been going on for 6 mths. If you had 6 mths to work 8 hrs a day on this don't you think you would know the cause:dontknow:

exactly what I believe....and that is on any product. I don`t care if its a box of lincoln logs, fix the problem to keep customers and create new ones. It sure doesnt look good for BRP...BAD PUBLICITY TRAVELS FASTER.....

 

[Smylinacha]

Bummer! Damned if I do and Damned if I don't huh? :gaah:

If I am not mistaken, the Spyder will revert to limp mode if you remove the fuses after the steering recall update has been done.

 

[stgilmer]

Are you saying that Carlo didn't send someone down to clean the dust off?:dontknow:

Nope, BRP needs to stock up on feather dusters and send their techs on the road. That still blows my mind and makes me laugh alittle everytime I think of him saying that to me.

:spyder2: oh :spyder2: where are you??:dontknow:

 

[gnkc]

Update: This thursday is 10 weeks in the shop. Still no GPS to see if it fixes the DPS. I guess I am ok with it(SOMEWHAT) better than going and getting it with a temp fix then having to take it back.

I have a Polaris 4wheeler that has no power steering/it has nobby tires and I can turn it just fine. I don't see the need in having power steering on the spyder. To me that would be a permanent fix/do away with the power steering. I haven't been aware of riding it without it, not sure if it is hard to steer or not.

When my steering failed in late October I called Carlo and he authorized a new DPS. After about 7 weeks of backorder I called Carlo again and he immediately expedited the part to the dealer and called them to let them know it was coming. I got my bike back a week later. 3 days later I went to move the bike out of the garage and the front end was making a bad squeaking noise. I called the dealer again and they came back out to my house to look at the problem. We added a little grease and it helped somewhat but at the dealer's insistence they offered to take the bike back to the shop to go over the front end. In the meantime we ended up with the most snow we've had in 20 years so the bike continues to sit in the shop until it thaws. So I've been without for months now although all I care about is that it gets fixed and is safe to ride. It's too snowy to ride here anyway.
While BRP can't help with the weather, they've made the effort to solve my problems, including paying for trailering the bike back and forth. The bike was extensively road tested by the dealer (in extremely cold weather) after the new DPS was installed and appears to be fixed but I won't be able to confirm this until it warms up.
If you haven't already, call Carlo and he can and will intervene. They DO follow this website and they WILL get involved if you let them know.

 

[Way2Fast]

If I am not mistaken, the Spyder will revert to limp mode if you remove the fuses after the steering recall update has been done.

According to one person (with pulled fuses) who had the update done, the only difference between before and after is that now a message constantly scrolls on the instrument panel advising him of a DPS malfunction.....no limp mode.

The message in itself would be very annoying. I have not had either update because of this.

 

[boborgera]

[QUOTE=gnkc;172251After about 7 weeks of backorder I called Carlo again and he immediately expedited the part to the dealer and called them to let them know it was coming. I got my bike back a week later.If you haven't already, call Carlo and he can and will intervene. They DO follow this website and they WILL get involved if you let them know.[/QUOTE
:hun:
7 Weeks to get the part.
a week to install it, and you say they made every effort to solve your problem.
I must be missing something :shocked:

 

[NancysToy]

I finally broke down and had the recall update done. Sooner or later it had to happen. They also did the ECU update and the purge canister hose changes. Somewhere along the way they found a need to reflash the ECU, which apparently failed to accept the update initially. We're hoping some of this will resolve a lingering idle variation problem.

No real chance to take a test ride, either for me or the dealer. Roads are still snow covered. I rode into the trailer, and out of the trailer, down the street a hundred feet, then back to the shed. Our street and driveway still has three inches of snowpack over an inch of ice. I had to use towels for traction mats to load the RT-S in the trailer when I left home. It was kind of fun fishtailing down the street on the GS, BTW.

The steering is definitely different. Much easier at low speeds. No chance to try it under other conditions. The cold idle was less variable, too, and there was no cold engine stumbling, as before. Throttle response is obviously sharper. I am hopeful that we have a cure...in hot weather and cold. I'll report again after (if???) it thaws. Now if they fix the RT-S and get it back to me, I'd have a full inventory again. I swear I'm stopping at two dozen....honest!

 

[truck 85]

:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::shemademe_smilie:

 

[sabunim5]

"We're hoping some of this will resolve a lingering idle variation problem. "

I'm sorry to say that I had both updates and they did not cure the idle variation problem. :gaah: At first I thought so, but as I got more miles I noticed my Spyder still did it. It has never been an all the time thing, but often enough that I worried about my inexperienced wife driving the Spyder. For an experienced rider it is only a minor irritation, not a real danger. For a rookie however, high idle can be problematic. :yikes: I think my Spyder and Nancy's had the same problem. The idle wants to wander in the 1700 rpm range rather than the 1400 rpm range. It will eventually calm down to the 1400 "normal" range, but it takes way longer to do it than it should to get there. At this point I'm just hoping to get my Spyder back from the power steering malfunction. I use it to commute and my truck does not get as good a milage. I'll be back on the BMW as soon as morning temps move above freezing. I have two areas (both in curves) that sprinklers run every night 365/yr. on my commute. I have this aversion to riding over ice while leaned over on 2 wheels. nojoke Losing my Spyder for months, due to parts not being available is not really long term acceptable. BRP has made only recreational vehicles for so long I am not sure they thought about it at first. I know that the Spyder is just a toy for a lot of us, but it is part of my commuting strategy. I think BRP has probably "gotten it" by now. In these tough economic times I doubt they can afford to make the changes it would take for faster parts availability. For those of us not in Canada, I'm sure that export/import issues complicate things too. Oh well, I begin to ramble. Bye. :thumbup:

 

[stgilmer]

Update:: Found out that the GPS has arrived but they are not going to put anybody on it until Monday. Then they will do alot of riding to see if they get any codes or funny feeling in the steering before I go get it. So maybe another hmm..2 weeks maybe. Not too bad, nice round number (12 weeks).