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Latest as of 2/1/13 on new 2013 wobbling problem

MIKESZONE2

New member
Latest as of 2/1/13 on new 2013 wobbling problems ;see post 16 for latest update

Hello All
I wanted to bring everybody up to date on my new 2013 RTS SE5 wobbling problem. I felt sharing this is extremely important so I started a new thread to be sure everyone will read it. Please read the old posts by MIKESZONE2 to get you to this point. I called BRP this week to find out if the new alignment program was out for the 2013 models and they said yes. I called my dealer to find out if they received it they said no. I kept calling them to let them know it is out. Well at first they all thought I was a Internet junkie when I was explaining the cause of this problem. Well they got the program and were working on it today. Mechanic said it takes about 12 hours as it is sophisticated to do. He also told me he does not think that's the problem. I said well if its not where do we go from there, his response was struts, then casters. I said no if the alignment does not fix it I'm not taking it back as I did not by a refurbished machine I bought a bran new one. I talked to the owner who was awesome and will do everything in his power to make things right. Well we came home from dealer today and had a message that they found the problem. Toe out by 11 degrees. They said it should be ready by tomorrow so we will see. I also called Cowtown and was blessed with the advise from their master spyder tech he told me they had several units out of the crate with the same problems but alignment fixed the problem, they are indeed the best, he told me to tell my mechanic to also check the angle sensor yaw rate. Well after talking to the mechanics at my dealer and upper management they realized I am not nuts. When I talked to a person at BRP and asked how does all these units get out the door like that. The answer I got was as follows; in the past BRP would test ride them for 4 to 5 miles but then customers were complaining at the dealership hey I just bought a new machine and it has 5 miles on it they were mad saying it is not new so BRP stopped it. Now the spyders go on a conveyer and lasers check the front end as they
are rolled through but this system is not totally accurate. Well that's where I am at now. Will add to this post tomorrow when I get to check the results of this repair from the road it self. I hope this helps you all out there. Sincerely Mike
 
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Wow! That is a lot of toe out, since the spec for a 2012 would be the equivalent of 0.04 degrees toe-in. A tech that was half blind should have been able to see that without even measuring. You are going to discover a whole different animal.
 
Shop Techs

I found out a lot of the shop techs have a attitude that you don't know what you are talking about. I'm sorry, I do know what I am talking because I am an owner they are not. I get advice from other owners and have a discussion about problems and 99.9% of the time get it resolved and then take it to the dealer to address it to them. I had to find another dealer that knew how to listen to the owners and fix the problems. My dealer's techs were wet behind the ears on working on the Spyder. I am glad this alignment issue is getting out there so everyone will be informed if their new Spyder has this problem. Now I don't feel like I was crying wolf on this alignment issue. I look forward to your update.

Cheers, Randy
 
Great info

Since I have a 2013 RT Limited on order this is good information. I am a little concerned about the check taking 12 hours. Hope that was the shop installing and learning the new tool and procedures. Once again thanks for the info.
 
I prefer the idea of a pre delivery test ride. My new 2011 had 25 miles on it because they drove it from the Wasilla dealer to Eagle River for me. The bike was delivered in perfect driving condition. 5000 miles later, still going strong.

Will keep watching to see how this all works out on the 2013's. :bbq:
 
If they're laser missed an 11 degree toe-out; it's got eyes that are way worse than even mine! :shocked:
BRP must have bought it from the close-out bin at Wal-Mart! :roflblack:

It takes a while to finally convince the techs that you're not quite as stupid as they think you are... Patience and accuracy will go a long way! :2thumbs:
 
I found out a lot of the shop techs have a attitude that you don't know what you are talking about. I'm sorry, I do know what I am talking because I am an owner they are not. I get advice from other owners and have a discussion about problems and 99.9% of the time get it resolved and then take it to the dealer to address it to them. I had to find another dealer that knew how to listen to the owners and fix the problems. My dealer's techs were wet behind the ears on working on the Spyder. I am glad this alignment issue is getting out there so everyone will be informed if their new Spyder has this problem. Now I don't feel like I was crying wolf on this alignment issue. I look forward to your update.

Cheers, Randy

:agree: I HAD a dealer like this. They would not align the front end of my '09 GS even when it was on my dime. After the third request they did it and it was like riding a new :spyder2:. Too late for the front tires but it finally was done.

This old dealer is mad at me and my new dealer because I did not buy my next :spyder2: from him. Thinks my new dealer stole the sale from him.
 
:agree: I HAD a dealer like this. They would not align the front end of my '09 GS even when it was on my dime. After the third request they did it and it was like riding a new :spyder2:. Too late for the front tires but it finally was done.

This old dealer is mad at me and my new dealer because I did not buy my next :spyder2: from him. Thinks my new dealer stole the sale from him.

I had to go to another dealer to have the alignment done on my 2012 RT/LTD because my dealer didn't know what to do.:dontknow:
 
The answer I got was as follows; in the past BRP would test ride them for 4 to 5 miles but then customers were complaining at the dealership hey I just bought a new machine and it has 5 miles on it they were mad saying it is not new so BRP stopped it. Now the spyders go on a conveyer and lasers check the front end as they
are rolled through but this system is not totally accurate.

i don't doubt that this answer came from BRP but, I do believe that the information is BS. Virtually nobody would complain about a factory expert riding their new machine 5 miles to make sure that all is working properly. Also, there are almost no vehicles that do not have some test miles as delivered. This sounds more like some high powered executive making a bad decision about a process he doesn't understand or the results of bean counters insisting that cost reductions must be made. Now, BRP should be reimbursing their customers about $100 per hour for the time required to return the vehicle to the dealer for repairs.
 
correct Toe In/Out specification for 2013 RTs ?

Hello All
I wanted to bring everybody up to date on my new 2013 RTS SE5 wobbling problem. I felt sharing this is extremely important so I started a new thread to be sure everyone will read it. Please read the old posts by MIKESZONE2 to get you to this point. I called BRP this week to find out if the new alignment program was out for the 2013 models and they said yes. I called my dealer to find out if they received it they said no. I kept calling them to let them know it is out. Well at first they all thought I was a Internet junkie when I was explaining the cause of this problem. Well they got the program and were working on it today. Mechanic said it takes about 12 hours as it is sophisticated to do. He also told me he does not think that's the problem. I said well if its not where do we go from there, his response was struts, then casters. I said no if the alignment does not fix it I'm not taking it back as I did not by a refurbished machine I bought a bran new one. I talked to the owner who was awesome and will do everything in his power to make things right. Well we came home from dealer today and had a message that they found the problem. Toe out by 11 degrees. They said it should be ready by tomorrow so we will see. I also called Cowtown and was blessed with the advise from their master spyder tech he told me they had several units out of the crate with the same problems but alignment fixed the problem, they are indeed the best, he told me to tell my mechanic to also check the angle sensor yaw rate. Well after talking to the mechanics at my dealer and upper management they realized I am not nuts. When I talked to a person at BRP and asked how does all these units get out the door like that. The answer I got was as follows; in the past BRP would test ride them for 4 to 5 miles but then customers were complaining at the dealership hey I just bought a new machine and it has 5 miles on it they were mad saying it is not new so BRP stopped it. Now the spyders go on a conveyer and lasers check the front end as they
are rolled through but this system is not totally accurate. Well that's where I am at now. Will add to this post tomorrow when I get to check the results of this repair from the road it self. I hope this helps you all out there. Sincerely Mike

I'm wondering Mike (for future reference when we need to have our 2013 machine's allignment re-checked) do you happen to have the correct factory specs for Toe-in, Toe-out?
 
Update on 2013 RTS SE5 Today Completed

Hello to all
Hi everybody this is Mike with the final post on the wobbling issue. The spyder has had the 11 degree toe out corrected today and the outcome has been awesome it rides great. I understand that all this is new and in fact took my dealer longer as it was a learning curve for them as they had to make adjustments to there equipment and wait for BRP to release the new 2013 alignment program to them. The average time to align the spyder should be down to about 6 hours for them now. I take my hat off to the master tech who worked on this problem as well as working with BRP to get it fixed. Remember this- the power steering on the 2013 is much more sensitive then the 2012 but we will get used to that as it is just a riders learning curve that's just the way it is. I know someone asked me for the specs on toe in and toe out I just can not remember. Here is the number for Cowtown their master techs are by far the best there is and they can answer that question for you. 1-800-258-6898. I want to thank Cowtown for their expert advise, I thank Lamont for looking into this and thank upper management at my dealer for their help also my thanks to all of you. Remember this is not all the 2013's but some. Well like I said spyder is now running awesome, wife is happy with her Christmas present. A happy wife makes a happy husband.
Another person posted they did not complain when they bought their spyder and it had milage on it I believe due to travel and said you do not understand why people would complain about 20 miles on a new product. I agree with you because that is the only way a problem can be determined and addressed before it leaves dealer. However not all people see it this way that is part of the problem here. Well I hope this will be of help to anyone who needs it, God bless you all and may The Lord be with all keeping you safe. Now enjoy the Superbowl tomorrow .
Sincerely Mike
 
Scotty gave the 2012 spec of .04 degrees... :thumbup:
For the 2013s; :dontknow:

Glad to hear that things are looking much better now! :2thumbs: :ohyea:
 
Scotty gave the 2012 spec of .04 degrees... :thumbup:
For the 2013s; :dontknow:

Glad to hear that things are looking much better now! :2thumbs: :ohyea:
That's not a spec, it was just a quick calculation. Toe-in specs are typically given as so many inches or millimeters measured at certain points, such as 3/32", as measured 3' in front and in the rear of the axle.
 
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