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Kumho Ecsta Tire and Hydroplaning

SpyderAnn01

Active member
I had to replace my original rear tire at 12,000 miles and I chose to buy the Kumho Ecsta tire as a replacement. My front tires were wearing unevenly (right front had major wear on the inside and left tire was fine) but I didn't replace them at the time of the rear. Everything was great the Spyder handled great on dry roads and also in the rain. I drove through some pretty heavy rain and never had a problem until I replaced the front tires with the OEM tires and also had an alignment done. Now I hydroplane on really wet roads and I was wondering if anyone else had this problem? The rear appears to have plenty of tread left even though I've put about 15,000 miles on it. I bought the Kumho thinking I would get considerably longer life with it but if I'm only going to get an extra 3,000 miles then I'll probably go with the OEM next time.

Hydroplaning is a little scary! :yikes:
 
HYDROPLANING

Hi, I have the same combo at the moment because I haven't changed my fronts to my new tires yet ( Falken ziex 512 185-60 /14 ), I have not had any hydro-planing issues. I am confused by what you said about your rear tire wear. You changed to the Kumho and have 15000 mi which is 3000 more than OEM. But your complaining even though you stated you still have plenty of tread left ( on the rear Kumho ) ????? This seems contradictory ?? Unless you meant to say something else.. Mike :thumbup:
 
Hydroplaning

Any vehicle can hydroplane with tires that are new to well worn ... just a few facts to share ....also, as someone who used to work selling and installing tires ... wetter weather always brought in a slew of customers for new tires because they had experienced this sensation even though they had plenty of wear left on their tires but the insisted on new tires.

The risk of hydroplaning increases with the depth of standing water and the sensitivity of a vehicle to that water depth.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP]
[h=3][edit] Water depth factors[/h]
Ruts in a road.


  • Depth of compacted wheel tracks and longitudinal depressionsHeavy vehicles can cause ruts in the pavement over time that allow water to pool, negatively impacting draining.
  • Pavement micro and macrotexture[SUP][3][/SUP]Concrete can be preferable to hotmix asphalt because it offers better resistance to rut formation, though this depends on the age of the surface and the construction techniques employed while paving. Concrete also requires special attention to ensure that it has sufficient texture.
  • Pavement cross slope and grade[SUP][4][/SUP]Cross slope is the extent to which the cross-section of a road resembles an upturned U. Higher cross slopes allow water to drain more easily. Grade is the steepness of the road at a particular point, which affects both drainage and the weight of the vehicle. Vehicles are less likely to hydroplane while traveling uphill, and far more likely to do so at the trough of two connected hills where water tends to pool. The resultant of cross slope and grade is called Drainage gradient or "Resulting grade". Most road design manuals world wide require that the drainage gradient in all road sections must exceed 0.5 %, in order to avoid a thick water film during and after rainfall. Areas where the Drainage Gradient may fall below the minimum limit 0.5 % are found at the entrance and exit of banked outer curves. These hot spots are typically less than 1 % of the road length, but a large share of all skid crashes occur there. One method for the road designer to reduce the crash risk is to move the cross slope transition from the outer curve and to a straight road section, where lateral forces are lower. If possible, the cross slope transition should be placed in a slight up- or downgrade , thereby avoiding that the drainage gradient drops to zero. The UK road design manual actually calls for placing the cross slope transition in an artificially created slope, if needed. In some cases, permeable asphalt can be used to improve drainage in the cross slope transitions.
  • Width of pavementWider roads require a higher cross slope to achieve the same degree of drainage.
  • Roadway curvature
  • Rainfall intensity and duration
[h=3][edit] Vehicle sensitivity factors[/h]
  • The driver's speed, acceleration, braking, and steering
  • Tire tread wearWorn tires will hydroplane more easily for lack of tread depth. Half-worn treads result in hydroplaning about 3-4 MPH lower than with full-tread tires.[SUP][5][/SUP]
  • Tire inflation pressureUnderinflation can cause a tire to deflect inward, raising the tire center and preventing the tread from clearing water.
  • Tire tread aspect ratioThe longer and thinner the contact patch, the less likely a tire will hydroplane. Tires that present the greatest risk are small in diameter and wide.
  • Vehicle weightMore weight on a properly inflated tire lengthens the contact patch, improving its aspect ratio. Weight can have the opposite effect if the tire is underinflated.
  • Vehicle typeCombination vehicles like semi-trailers are more likely to experience uneven hydroplaning caused by uneven weight distribution. An unloaded trailer will hydroplane sooner than the cab pulling it. Pickup trucks or SUVs towing trailers also present similar problems.
There is no precise equation to determine the speed at which a vehicle will hydroplane. Existing efforts have derived rules of thumb from empirical testing.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] In general, cars hydroplane at speeds above 53 MPH (72 km/h), where water ponds to a depth of at least 1/10 of an inch (2,5 mm) over a distance of 30 feet (9 meters) or more.
[h=3][edit] Motorcycles[/h]Motorcycles benefit from narrow tires with round, canoe-shaped contact patches. Narrow tires are less vulnerable to hydroplaning because vehicle weight is distributed over a smaller area, and rounded tires more easily push water aside. These advantages diminish on lighter motorcycles with naturally wide tires, like those in the supersport class. Further, wet conditions reduce the lateral force that any tire can accommodate before sliding. While a slide in a four-wheeled vehicle may be corrected, the same slide on a motorcycle will generally cause the rider to fall. Thus, despite the relative lack of hydroplaning danger in wet conditions, motorcycle riders must be even more cautious because overall traction is reduced by wet roadways.
 
Anne, I really don't think that is going to be a major issue in Las Vegas.:roflblack: In fact, you may have seen your last rain for quite a while. Best of luck and enjoy your new life BTW.
 
I rode through tons of water and never hydroplaned until I changed the fronts. As for mileage I heard others say they got twice as much life from the Kumho so I don't think mine is worn out at 15000 miles. I guess I was surprised that I'm hydroplaning with the new front tires.
 
There may be more going on here than just the new front skins. Even if you've ridden in "deep" water before; speed, the depth of the water and even the crown of the road can and will affect the handling in these extra-wet conditions. I can't think of why having MORE tread up front would cause hydroplaning by itself... there's something else lurking... :shocked:
 
I rode through tons of water and never hydroplaned until I changed the fronts. As for mileage I heard others say they got twice as much life from the Kumho so I don't think mine is worn out at 15000 miles. I guess I was surprised that I'm hydroplaning with the new front tires.

Could be the new tires are gripping [getting traction], and its the 15000 mile tire that is hydroplaning .[losing traction]:dontknow: Or two different type tires are off balance.?? [fighting each other in the rain]
 
Well as TrickieDick said it won't much matter anymore to me as I'm moving to the desert but I was just curious if anyone else had experienced this after changing to the Kumho rear tire.
 
SpyderAnne...I too have the Kumho Ecste 25/50R/15 with about 18,500 miles...replaced OEM at 10,500 miles with the Kumho...replaced front OEM tires at 22,000 miles with Falken ZIEX 175/65/14...a little wider..but fit great in the wheel well...but I did hydroplane a couple of weeks ago....raining like crazy...hard and fast...couldn't hardly see...was entering the toll way overpass ...hit a big puddle of water going about 45mph...felt the rear tire move right and then left...let off on the throttle and all was well....scared the poo out of me...it all happened in seconds...but i remember it all.....I have ordered a new rear tire...Kumho Ecsta AST 225/50/15...had it delivered to the house...will put it on before my next long trip...in about 3 weeks or so....good luck...hydroplaning is for the birds.....
 
SpyderAnne...I too have the Kumho Ecste 25/50R/15 with about 18,500 miles...replaced OEM at 10,500 miles with the Kumho...replaced front OEM tires at 22,000 miles with Falken ZIEX 175/65/14...a little wider..but fit great in the wheel well...but I did hydroplane a couple of weeks ago....raining like crazy...hard and fast...couldn't hardly see...was entering the toll way overpass ...hit a big puddle of water going about 45mph...felt the rear tire move right and then left...let off on the throttle and all was well....scared the poo out of me...it all happened in seconds...but i remember it all.....I have ordered a new rear tire...Kumho Ecsta AST 225/50/15...had it delivered to the house...will put it on before my next long trip...in about 3 weeks or so....good luck...hydroplaning is for the birds.....

:agree: it will scare the poo out of you! So maybe I'm ready for another rear tire. Two tires in one season seems a little excessive to me!
 
It doesn't scare me as much as it surprises me. It is always more of a surprise at higher speeds than lower, and at steady speeds as opposed to accelerating. Nancy's GS is more prone to it than my RT. The nanny should respond to it fairly quickly. It always has in my case, either in heavy rain, standing water, slush, or snow.
 
HYDROPLANING

The real problem here is not HYDROPLANING but the totally un-realistic expectation that a vehicle can be made that cannot " HYDROPLANE " ( I'm talking driveable here ). I can HYDROPLANE any tire made even if it has a tread depth of TWO INCHES . Once you reach the critical speed YOU WILL HYDROPLANE !!!!! That's all there is to it. Formula I racing does it in all sorts of weather , they don't stop for rain. They change to " WET " compound tires I bet they cost $5000 + each and guss what ???? even those HYDROPLANE. You cannot buy tires that can't / won't HYDROPLANE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE just slow down . I am not blowing smoke here I am a trained accident re-constructionist and investigator so I think I have at least some level of expertise here..... I apologize for the rant but I would just like to dispel some wild notions that technology can save us from everything. Ann your tires are not the problem Mike :thumbup:
 
The real problem here is not HYDROPLANING but the totally un-realistic expectation that a vehicle can be made that cannot " HYDROPLANE " ( I'm talking driveable here ). I can HYDROPLANE any tire made even if it has a tread depth of TWO INCHES . Once you reach the critical speed YOU WILL HYDROPLANE !!!!! That's all there is to it. Formula I racing does it in all sorts of weather , they don't stop for rain. They change to " WET " compound tires I bet they cost $5000 + each and guss what ???? even those HYDROPLANE. You cannot buy tires that can't / won't HYDROPLANE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE just slow down . I am not blowing smoke here I am a trained accident re-constructionist and investigator so I think I have at least some level of expertise here..... I apologize for the rant but I would just like to dispel some wild notions that technology can save us from everything. Ann your tires are not the problem Mike :thumbup:
While I agree wholeheartedly with your science and your sentiment, there is more to it than you assume. The problem comes in knowing when to slow down. If, due to a recent change in tires, the machine hydroplaned unexpectedly, I would not be too surprised. We all have to get used to new tire characteristics. If, however, the same tire you had ridden for some time, seemed to suddenly change without being worn out, it would be more of a surprise and concern. Ann has ridden thousands and thousands of miles, in plenty of rain, so if she expresses her surprise at the change, I have to respect that. A tire that changes it's hydroplaning tendency as it wears is normal, but if it does so suddenly and unexpectedly, it is not only a learning experience, but something that should be reported so we all can benefit. It is not only the speed that can harm us, but a changed reaction to the same speed that was safe before. We all have to be on our toes. Nanny can only do so much to save our bacon. Thanks for reporting your experience, Ann.
 
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I rode through tons of water and never hydroplaned until I changed the fronts. As for mileage I heard others say they got twice as much life from the Kumho so I don't think mine is worn out at 15000 miles. I guess I was surprised that I'm hydroplaning with the new front tires.

Hey Ann. Going to ask what may be a silly question. You said the problem seemed to start after having the OEM tires replaced. Is it remotely possible that they are not installed correctly? If the rain tires were installed with the directional tread the wrong way, that would explain the sudden change. Can you post a pic of the treads on the front??
 
Hey Ann. Going to ask what may be a silly question. You said the problem seemed to start after having the OEM tires replaced. Is it remotely possible that they are not installed correctly? If the rain tires were installed with the directional tread the wrong way, that would explain the sudden change. Can you post a pic of the treads on the front??

No I'm pretty sure that they are on correctly but the Spyder is in Nevada so I can't post a picture.
 
Living in Florida I have hydroplaned plenty, scary, but the nanny has saved me every time. The front tires don't seem to hydroplane, even in tire ruts with standing water, but the force of the water on the front tires is quite a drag overall and the wide rear tire with not much weight to hold it down will kick out a few inches constantly, but the nanny always brings it back in line. Riding 2 up it doesn't happen nearly as much. I could do without the nanny most of the time, but it will save your butt when the time comes.
 
I have had hydroplaning happen to me twice. AK has tire grooves in a lot of the roads from the studded snow tires that are allowed here. These are wonderful catch basins for water.

In both cases, I got in the catch basin water and was going over 55 mph. Nanny kicked in timely and straightend me out before I crossed into another lane. Very scarry situation.

Since then, I have tried to avoid standing water when it is raining hard-- and keep the speed under 55 if possible. Speed is definately a factor and will bring on hydroplaning.

I have always used the stock tires on the :spyder2:. Some tires have different handling characteristics, but would guess that they would not make you to hydroplane any more or less.
 
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