Just a question about my 1 gal reserve fuel location and any "Venting" concerns.

[teninospyder]

Just a question about my 1 gal reserve fuel location and any "Venting" concerns.

last year I mounted a Military Ammo Can (empty of course :roflblack to the tongue of my utility trailer (harbor Freight trailer). It nicely holds a 1 gal. gas can (new design plastic with internal flame arrester sleeve) and the lid closes very tight. Does any person familiar with transporting gasoline think I should put a VERY SMALL hole in the ammo box to vent any fumes if/when they might somehow form ? I agree with "knowing" where the closest gas station is....but on the Oregon Coast 101 we were surprised in the past to find NO working gas station within a 100 miles of our location, and NO warning of that until it was "almost" too late (took over 5 gallons to fill at a Fred Myers located on the outskirts of Florance, Or).
Thoughts?:banghead:

 

[Dasmoetorhead]

I personally would vent it. I once had a 1 gal can of Coleman fuel against the cab of my pickup in the bed. I was going up into the mountains of Colorado, and it was hot outside. I was still gaining elevation when I heard a load bang and also felt it. I thought an overhanging Boulder or rock fell on my truck. I slammed the brakes on, got out and ran. Moments later I walked up to the truck, and all I found was that 1 gal can of fuel had expanded
Almost to blowing up and the whole back of the bed was covered in a black substance, which ended up was the paint that was on the can. I was lucky. I'd vent.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

last year I mounted a Military Ammo Can (empty of course :roflblack to the tongue of my utility trailer (harbor Freight trailer). It nicely holds a 1 gal. gas can (new design plastic with internal flame arrester sleeve) and the lid closes very tight. Does any person familiar with transporting gasoline think I should put a VERY SMALL hole in the ammo box to vent any fumes if/when they might somehow form ? I agree with "knowing" where the closest gas station is....but on the Oregon Coast 101 we were surprised in the past to find NO working gas station within a 100 miles of our location, and NO warning of that until it was "almost" too late (took over 5 gallons to fill at a Fred Myers located on the outskirts of Florance, Or).
Thoughts?:banghead:

I'd suggest you see if you can create a small vent path through the seal on the lid that is directed downward. That'll keep rain water from leaking into the can. Also, it is very difficult to keep any sealed container from getting humid inside. What happens is when the container heats up it forces the air inside to expand and push out carrying water vapor with it. Then when it cools it creates a slight vacuum inside that will draw in air ladden with vapor into it. In time more water vapor gets pulled in than pushed out so the interior gets moist.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

last year I mounted a Military Ammo Can (empty of course :roflblack to the tongue of my utility trailer (harbor Freight trailer). It nicely holds a 1 gal. gas can (new design plastic with internal flame arrester sleeve) and the lid closes very tight. Does any person familiar with transporting gasoline think I should put a VERY SMALL hole in the ammo box to vent any fumes if/when they might somehow form ? I agree with "knowing" where the closest gas station is....but on the Oregon Coast 101 we were surprised in the past to find NO working gas station within a 100 miles of our location, and NO warning of that until it was "almost" too late (took over 5 gallons to fill at a Fred Myers located on the outskirts of Florance, Or).
Thoughts?:banghead:

Hi Ray .... just my experience .... I also carry a bit of extra gas ... 750 ml ... It's in a square Tequila bottle gaah::roflblack .... It has never leaked nor does it smell .... It's now7 years old ( yes, I do change the gas regularly ) .... I have driven with it in stop & go traffic when the bike's temp gauge read 125 F ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peter Aawen]

I'd suggest you vent your ammo container too! :lecturef_smilie:

Sure, a small amount of gas in a sealed container that has a bit of expansion space between the (frequently replaced) liquid level & the sealed tightly cap (like Mike's Tequila bottle. ) is probably NEVER going to be a significant problem, especially if your small fully sealed container is itself stored/carried inside something that's not airtight; but once you start putting something that might vent or leak occasionally inside an also sealed metallic container that'll collect and contain the resulting mixture of air & gas fumes, you're actually half way to creating a cheapie but very effective bomb... All you really need is an ignition source, like that tiny spark that you've never noticed which sometimes happens in the tail lights when you put your foot on the brakes; or the spark from the stone that your Spyder flicked up hitting/scraping the outside of the metal ammo box as it punched a hole thru it! :yikes: (Yes, both of those scenario's CAN & DO happen! :banghead: )

So unless you like the idea of something going BANG immediately under & behind your rear end, ie, on the drawbar of the trailer that you're towing, then you need to either VENT the ammo container; or GET RID of the ammo container!! :lecturef_smilie: The approved 'new design plastic gas container with internal flame arrester sleeve built in' would be better off simply on a tray & tucked behind a screen/protector on the drawbar rather than in a sealed (non-vented) metal container that will concentrate any potential fumes &/or fuel/air mix inside a restriction box which will then concentrate any BANG that might occur, intensifying the explosion! :yikes:

One of the worst ever 'off road incidents' I ever saw was the result of a sealed plastic Jerry-can/5 (Imp) gallon gas container being packed inside the rear of a sealed 7'x4' trailer with 2' high walls while the tow vehicle drove along a relatively smooth but dirt outback track. The slight but continual bit of movement that the plastic gas container experienced due to the track surface was enough to wear a tiny seeping hole that, over time, let enough gas fumes leak out of the gas container & mix with the air inside the sealed trailer to become an explosive aerosol mix that filled the sealed steel box that was the trailer... until the driver touched the brakes on the tow vehicle, triggering the trailer brake lights and supplying an ignition source for the 'quite large' thermobaric explosive device in the form of a 7'x4' trailer/56 cubic feet of fuel air mix that the tow vehicle was now hauling!! :shocked:

When all the dust settled, there was NO 7'x4' trailer any more, just the ragged remnants of a draw bar hitched to the shrapnel blasted & completely destroyed rear end of the tow vehicle, and a whole heap of shredded food, clothes, camping gear, and trailer shrapnel spread for about 200 yards along the track!! Luckily, the 2 occupants of the tow vehicle were only momentarily deaf & a bit charred around the edges, but relatively uninjured - none of the shards of exploding trailer had penetrated thru everything between them and where the trailer had originally been, but there were some pretty large & sharp chunks of steel embedded fairly firmly and ALMOST penetrating all the way thru the backs of the seats that were the last thing between them and serious injury!! They weren't even just an INCH away from serious injury, it was much closer than that!! :yikes: The tow vehicle (an expensive 4WD Wagon) & the Camper Trailer plus all the contents of both were basically shredded!! pps:

So PLEASE, don't put a gas container that might conceivably EVER leak fumes inside a sealed/unvented box, especially not a non-vented steel box! :lecturef_smilie:

 

[askitee]

From an ex firefighters perspective no don't add a vent.

Fuel tanks are vented to a closed system. Most portable fuel containers are designed to hold the contents under pressure in normal use if subject to normal heat - high ambient temps.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

From an ex firefighters perspective no don't add a vent.

Fuel tanks are vented to a closed system. Most portable fuel containers are designed to hold the contents under pressure in normal use if subject to normal heat - high ambient temps.

He was asking about venting the ammo container, not the fuel can.

 

[Gwolf]

RotopaX fuel containers for ATVs and Motorcycles. Revzilla, Amazon, many other places.

Yes, I have some of them. I have also used the MSR metal fuel bottles.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Just a bit further to my comments above, I've done a quick dig around on a bunch of local Oz sites and note that here in Oz, all of our States & Territories and our National Australian Design Rules include articles & legislation that cover the carriage of fuel in addition to that in the vehicle's gas tank, and IIRC from previous discussions we've had about this on the Forum, it's much the same in your part of the World. A quick look around the various websites here basically comes back with a summary along these lines:

"if carrying any fuel or other dangerous goods (eg ULP, Diesel, LPG) in anything other than an approved and factory installed fuel tank, those dangerous goods must be in a package or approved container of a size not exceeding the specified limits, and if the package (ie, jerry can or other approved container) contains dangerous goods of a kind that may lead to the formation of flammable, toxic, or other harmful atmospheres - the package must be stowed so that no harmful atmosphere will accumulate in the cabin or compartment if the package leaks".

There's a whole lot more bunf about where you can put these 'packages' (front bull bar, back step, side bar, drawbar, roof rack etc) and who needs to know &/or approve of where you want to carry them, but when you work your way thru it all, it basically comes back to saying that here in Oz, all our States & Territories require that:

Firstly, any fuel you carry outside the vehicle's main gas tank/s must be stored in a 'package' or 'a number of packages' that are approved containers like an ADR Compliant Jerry Can or possibly something like that 'new design plastic with internal flame arrester sleeve' that you've got tenino, but only IF it's been approved by the appropriate body of course ; and

Secondly, if we then put one or more of those 'packages' inside anything in their turn, ie. carry it/them in the cabin or in any other compartment or receptacle for a number of said smaller packages within or on the vehicle, then those cabins/other compartments/receptacles MUST be ventilated to ensure no harmful atmosphere will accumulate if the package/s leak!

And all this is why our caravans & trailers, boats, etc have storage containers for any ULP & LPG etc (ie, all that stuff that's NOT carried in the main gas tank/s) that are vented to the outside atmosphere.

So teninio, it might be worth checking with your 'local authorities' or at least checking out any local RV's, caravans, etc to see if their 'extra/alternative fuel storage compartments' are vented... :dontknow: I would guess that they probably are, cos I really can't see our basic Rules here in Oz being all that much different to yours, especially since we share so many of these sorta vehicles & products?! But I guess you never know... weirder things have been known to happen! :shocked: :thumbup:

 

[chipveres]

+1 for Peter. Gasoline vapor is heavier than air, so I would let it out the *bottom* of the ammo can. When I went to boat driver's school they taught us that one cup of gas spilled into the bilges and allowed to vaporize there is the equivalent of 15 sticks of dynamite. Someone in South Florida proves it at least once a year. There is simply nothing left of the boat above the waterline.

 

[UtahPete]

He was asking about venting the ammo container, not the fuel can.

:agree:

I'm inclined to think that;
1. The gas can is designed not to leak
2. If fumes do escape the gas can, they're not going to be under much pressure in the ammo can, so not a combustible situation unless exposed to open flame
3. If gas can is leaking, then that is what is going to blow if exposed to open flame
4. I don't see a downside to ventilating the ammo can and the upside is you'll be able to smell the fumes much easier.