WackyDan
New member
Well, JB Pro came in on Friday from ESI. ( They don't stock the older/regular JB anymore)
( Two Bros JB Pro link: http://www.twobros.com/Perf_Products/Juice_Box_Pro/JuiceBox-Pro.htm )
I had another thread asking for suggestions here: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22255
To recap: I bought a used Kewl Metal Racing Intake ( http://www.kewlmetalstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_43&products_id=401 ) from another forum member. Bought it for $190 which I figured was a decent deal over new and I could sell it for much the same if I did not like it myself. He thought it was too loud, and only used it for 30 miles before taking it off.
Now I bought the intake for a number of reasons
1. No more oil in the air box issue even though I do have an oil catch can inline with this new intake.
2. Access to the front cylinder's plug is just as easy as the rear cylinder now, and better access to most everything on that side.
3. I was going to add a pipe eventually.
Lamont cautioned me that the intake would make the Spyder even leaner than it already was and I didn't want to blow anything up. I took some short and longer runs with it before the JB came in and I can say the Spyder was acting more fuel starved, and the 4000-4300 RPM sputtering was more pronounced. I parked it until today when I had a chance to install the JB Pro.
First I checked my plugs... Definately were running lean, but not terribly so. Granted those have about 2000 miles on them and have a light tan look to them that may just be "left over" from those first 2000. They are lighter than my old set of plugs I have here on the shelf.
Install was pretty easy. Just remove the two side panels under the "Y" panel, the under tail cover, and take out the torx bolt holding the right rear side panel on so you can pull it away from the bike a few inches. I could do this install in 20 minutes if needed to again, though my total time was like 45 minutes with coffee break.
Only complaint is that the throttle position sensor wire on the JB Pro is too short by about 3 inches though that just might be my unit or the side of the throttle bodies that I ran it down. I plan on lengthening that tomorrow.
I also wonder how weather tight this box is given the mounting points available to it.. But that I can address that numerous other ways later.
I took her out for some runs early this evening. Although I'm going to do that again tomorrow, I can already attest that the JB is working magic, especially in that 4000 RPM range. I'm not getting stutter/sputtering as I was with the stock air box or the new intake. The power is back at least as good as it was and in just a few short runs I could tell the Spyder was going to be much better mannered in everyday riding.
While I think I would have preferred the original Juice Box, this one will do just fine. It comes with 4 maps:
Map 0 = Stock Spyder
Map 1 = Stock Spyder with tweaks in the Map from the Juice Box
Map 2 = Stock Air Box with Two Bros Slip on
Map 3 = Stock Air Box with Two Bros dual pipes.
I would have loved to see some more maps included or downloaded that address the use of a non stock air filter or intake, but because Two Brothers does not make an intake or air filter for the Spyder it doesn't surprise me in the least that they didn't make more maps.
I used Map 1 for my first run and saw an immediate improvement. I then left it on Map 1 and increased fuel delivered in the lower 3rd of the RPM range by +10% and then +20% fuel... Not sure I noticed much of a difference. I then backed off the lower range to just +10% fuel and popped the mid range of the RPM's up by +10% fuel. Again... It might have done slightly better, or it could be in my head... More testing tomorrow.
I think the thing that is cool about the JB Pro is that you can modify a map on your computer and download it to the box. You set the map on the unit by turning a dial from Map 0 thru 9. You also have 3 other dials that allow you to add or remove fuel by 10% increments for the lower 3rd, middle 3rd and the top 3rd of the RPM range. You use the computer to calibrate the throttle position with the JB Pro though I'm not sure that in entirely needed - I did it anyway.. Fun to watch the readout on the laptop screen.
So yeah.. The JB Pro is overkill. You can use it like a regular JB for the most part, but you can tweak very small portions of the RPM range with a custom map created on your computer with the supplied software. Obviously, having a dyno is the only way you can really utilize this feature which allows you to make adjustments as small as 1% + or -. If you open the maps for the two bros pipes, you'll get a good idea of how complex this must have been and how much dyno time it had to have taken to get it right.
Of course, If you think +10% is overkill for a range of RPM on an existing map or via the separate RPM Range dials for rich/lean, the software will allow you to tweak that to +5% if you want to give that a try.
I have to do more runs tomorrow to figure out just how I want to leave it for a bit. Over time the spark plugs will tell a little about how she is running, and now, even with the adjusted stock map, I feel I'm not at risk of blowing her up!
Of note... They specifically say you have to use the Stock O2 Sensor with the JB Pro. Others here recommended the O2 modifier for use with the older Juice Box... So when you add the costs up, the JB Pro is a little cheaper than the old JB + O2 Modifier. Cost of course is subjectively different for all of us.
Also, if somebody including Two Bros ever produces more maps for the Spyder, then they can be shared and upload to the JB Pro with ease, so from that perspective I'm future proof.
Now if I put the turbo on... I have to throw out the JB Pro and the intake, but that is another story.
**** Big thanks to Lamont for a ten minute phone conversation making sure I was making the right choices. Another big Thanks to Evan and Jody at ESI. Ordered on Weds - arrived USPS priority mail on Friday. That and Evan was dead on that I'd see a really bad behavior (more than usual) in that lower 4000 RPM range without the JB. It is hard to imagine any two people knowing as much about the Spyder as these two.
That said, I have always valued the feedback from everyone here and why I had started that other thread last week. Thanks everyone! You all helped me get closer to hopefully a 4k trip departing this week pending Wife's doctor appointment and pending job offer. (Though I really wouldn't mind if a job offer cancels my trip, I really want to go!)
Enough already! I shut up now.
( Two Bros JB Pro link: http://www.twobros.com/Perf_Products/Juice_Box_Pro/JuiceBox-Pro.htm )
I had another thread asking for suggestions here: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22255
To recap: I bought a used Kewl Metal Racing Intake ( http://www.kewlmetalstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_43&products_id=401 ) from another forum member. Bought it for $190 which I figured was a decent deal over new and I could sell it for much the same if I did not like it myself. He thought it was too loud, and only used it for 30 miles before taking it off.
Now I bought the intake for a number of reasons
1. No more oil in the air box issue even though I do have an oil catch can inline with this new intake.
2. Access to the front cylinder's plug is just as easy as the rear cylinder now, and better access to most everything on that side.
3. I was going to add a pipe eventually.
Lamont cautioned me that the intake would make the Spyder even leaner than it already was and I didn't want to blow anything up. I took some short and longer runs with it before the JB came in and I can say the Spyder was acting more fuel starved, and the 4000-4300 RPM sputtering was more pronounced. I parked it until today when I had a chance to install the JB Pro.
First I checked my plugs... Definately were running lean, but not terribly so. Granted those have about 2000 miles on them and have a light tan look to them that may just be "left over" from those first 2000. They are lighter than my old set of plugs I have here on the shelf.
Install was pretty easy. Just remove the two side panels under the "Y" panel, the under tail cover, and take out the torx bolt holding the right rear side panel on so you can pull it away from the bike a few inches. I could do this install in 20 minutes if needed to again, though my total time was like 45 minutes with coffee break.
Only complaint is that the throttle position sensor wire on the JB Pro is too short by about 3 inches though that just might be my unit or the side of the throttle bodies that I ran it down. I plan on lengthening that tomorrow.
I also wonder how weather tight this box is given the mounting points available to it.. But that I can address that numerous other ways later.
I took her out for some runs early this evening. Although I'm going to do that again tomorrow, I can already attest that the JB is working magic, especially in that 4000 RPM range. I'm not getting stutter/sputtering as I was with the stock air box or the new intake. The power is back at least as good as it was and in just a few short runs I could tell the Spyder was going to be much better mannered in everyday riding.
While I think I would have preferred the original Juice Box, this one will do just fine. It comes with 4 maps:
Map 0 = Stock Spyder
Map 1 = Stock Spyder with tweaks in the Map from the Juice Box
Map 2 = Stock Air Box with Two Bros Slip on
Map 3 = Stock Air Box with Two Bros dual pipes.
I would have loved to see some more maps included or downloaded that address the use of a non stock air filter or intake, but because Two Brothers does not make an intake or air filter for the Spyder it doesn't surprise me in the least that they didn't make more maps.
I used Map 1 for my first run and saw an immediate improvement. I then left it on Map 1 and increased fuel delivered in the lower 3rd of the RPM range by +10% and then +20% fuel... Not sure I noticed much of a difference. I then backed off the lower range to just +10% fuel and popped the mid range of the RPM's up by +10% fuel. Again... It might have done slightly better, or it could be in my head... More testing tomorrow.
I think the thing that is cool about the JB Pro is that you can modify a map on your computer and download it to the box. You set the map on the unit by turning a dial from Map 0 thru 9. You also have 3 other dials that allow you to add or remove fuel by 10% increments for the lower 3rd, middle 3rd and the top 3rd of the RPM range. You use the computer to calibrate the throttle position with the JB Pro though I'm not sure that in entirely needed - I did it anyway.. Fun to watch the readout on the laptop screen.
So yeah.. The JB Pro is overkill. You can use it like a regular JB for the most part, but you can tweak very small portions of the RPM range with a custom map created on your computer with the supplied software. Obviously, having a dyno is the only way you can really utilize this feature which allows you to make adjustments as small as 1% + or -. If you open the maps for the two bros pipes, you'll get a good idea of how complex this must have been and how much dyno time it had to have taken to get it right.
Of course, If you think +10% is overkill for a range of RPM on an existing map or via the separate RPM Range dials for rich/lean, the software will allow you to tweak that to +5% if you want to give that a try.
I have to do more runs tomorrow to figure out just how I want to leave it for a bit. Over time the spark plugs will tell a little about how she is running, and now, even with the adjusted stock map, I feel I'm not at risk of blowing her up!
Of note... They specifically say you have to use the Stock O2 Sensor with the JB Pro. Others here recommended the O2 modifier for use with the older Juice Box... So when you add the costs up, the JB Pro is a little cheaper than the old JB + O2 Modifier. Cost of course is subjectively different for all of us.
Also, if somebody including Two Bros ever produces more maps for the Spyder, then they can be shared and upload to the JB Pro with ease, so from that perspective I'm future proof.
Now if I put the turbo on... I have to throw out the JB Pro and the intake, but that is another story.
**** Big thanks to Lamont for a ten minute phone conversation making sure I was making the right choices. Another big Thanks to Evan and Jody at ESI. Ordered on Weds - arrived USPS priority mail on Friday. That and Evan was dead on that I'd see a really bad behavior (more than usual) in that lower 4000 RPM range without the JB. It is hard to imagine any two people knowing as much about the Spyder as these two.
That said, I have always valued the feedback from everyone here and why I had started that other thread last week. Thanks everyone! You all helped me get closer to hopefully a 4k trip departing this week pending Wife's doctor appointment and pending job offer. (Though I really wouldn't mind if a job offer cancels my trip, I really want to go!)
Enough already! I shut up now.
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