initial oil consumption

[NancysToy]

What happens if you over flow the system a bit?

Oil level shouldn't really matter that much in a dry sump system, as long as there is sufficient oil to feed the pump, and not so much that the return overflows the tank when hot. BRPs tolerances seem to be low, though, judging from their exacting level checking procedure, and the narrow "safe" zone on the dipstick. Not sure of a reason. It does seem to be a small oil tank. Some folks have indicated oil level as the cause of excess blow-by into the air box, but I have seen nothing I would call proof of the theory. Not really that logical to me. Sure would like to hear a BRP engineer sound off on this topic for a while.
-Scotty

 

[Way2Fast]

I know it's a different engine, but the oil level is very critical in the Rotax 4-tec used in Sea-doo PWC. The engine runs best with the storage tank level only up to midway on the dipstick. Fill it to the upper level and the engine looses performance/rpm.

 

[SpyderMark]

When I checked my oil level I had just riden home from work on it. I checked it...added 1/2 a qt, let it sit for about an hr, went back out and ran it for 30 sec or so...checked it again and had to add almost another 1/2 qt to get it to the full line.

I wonder if a 30-second run after sitting for an hour was enough to get it to "normal operating tempurature." I know the SOG doesn't specify, but most report seeing three to four bars on the temp gage under normal circumstances. I would think that would be a good standard for "normal operating temperature."

I'm sure part of the issue regarding BRP's exacting procedure to check the oil is expansion of the fluid (oil) when it gets hot. When a fluid gets hot it expands requiring more room to store the same volume. Try filling your fuel tank on a cold morning, then let it sit all day in the hot sun. I can almost guarantee the tank will overflow as the gas expands. For the oil to get hot, the engine must run for a period of time.

Recently, I checked the oil at normal operating temp on our Spyder. The level on the dipstick indicated "full." Checked it again a few days later before starting and the level indicated "add."

Regards,

Mark

 

[NancysToy]

I wonder if a 30-second run after sitting for an hour was enough to get it to "normal operating tempurature." I know the SOG doesn't specify, but most report seeing three to four bars on the temp gage under normal circumstances. I would think that would be a good standard for "normal operating temperature."

:agree::agree:

Recently, I checked the oil at normal operating temp on our Spyder. The level on the dipstick indicated "full." Checked it again a few days later before starting and the level indicated "add."

Sounds like it may be "wet-sumping" a bit, with the check valve leaking by. Not a problem if it is not excessive, either filling the sump to the point of interference with the crank or overwhelming the scavenging pump, and not draining the oil tank too low.
-Scotty

 

[Way2Fast]

I wonder if a 30-second run after sitting for an hour was enough to get it to "normal operating tempurature." I know the SOG doesn't specify, but most report seeing three to four bars on the temp gage under normal circumstances. I would think that would be a good standard for "normal operating temperature."

I'm sure part of the issue regarding BRP's exacting procedure to check the oil is expansion of the fluid (oil) when it gets hot. When a fluid gets hot it expands requiring more room to store the same volume. Try filling your fuel tank on a cold morning, then let it sit all day in the hot sun. I can almost guarantee the tank will overflow as the gas expands. For the oil to get hot, the engine must run for a period of time.

Recently, I checked the oil at normal operating temp on our Spyder. The level on the dipstick indicated "full." Checked it again a few days later before starting and the level indicated "add."

Regards,

Mark

The 30 second "run" is not intended to get the oil to normal operating temperature, but rather to make sure the oil storage "dry sump" tank is filled. There might be a slight rise in oil level due to expansion when the engine is run longer, but it is not as significant as making sure the tank is at it's "operating level" when the dipstick is read.

Richard

 

[SpyderMark]

The 30 second "run" is not intended to get the oil to normal operating temperature, but rather to make sure the oil storage "dry sump" tank is filled. There might be a slight rise in oil level due to expansion when the engine is run longer, but it is not as significant as making sure the tank is at it's "operating level" when the dipstick is read.

Then why does the SOG specify to ensure the engine is at operating temp before checking the oil?

Regards,

Mark

 

[SpyderMark]

Sounds like it may be "wet-sumping" a bit, with the check valve leaking by. Not a problem if it is not excessive, either filling the sump to the point of interference with the crank or overwhelming the scavenging pump, and not draining the oil tank too low.

Right, that's what I thought too. That's why I think NOT following the SOG recommended oil level check procedure can lead to inaccurate readings -- and an overfilled oil sump.

Some (including me) have speculated an overfilled oil sump might lead to the excess oil winding up in the airbox via the crankcase breather tube.

Regards,

Mark

 

[bjt]

From what I gather from this discussion, as long as I am sure that the correct amount of oil was put in at the oil change, there is no harm in me checking the oil with the engine cold and, as long as there is oil showing on the dipstick, believing that the level is okay. A cold level will only show less than the warm level amount, not more, correct? If I checked the oil cold and I didn't have any oil on the dipstick, I would recheck it following the proper warm engine check procedure before I added any oil.

 

[SpyderMark]

From what I gather from this discussion, as long as I am sure that the correct amount of oil was put in at the oil change, there is no harm in me checking the oil with the engine cold and, as long as there is oil showing on the dipstick, believing that the level is okay.

That's assuming a "cold" check is the same for every machine, and that each machine reacts the same for a "cold" check. And then you would need to know how long after shutting down it takes for the oil to drain out of the resevoir back to the engine. Then what happens if the outside temp is 40 degrees F instead of 80 degrees F?

If you check it "cold" and no oil is showing, how would you know the difference between a situation where the oil has simply drained back to the engine, and the level is actually low? If the oil is just a little low, but enough oil has drained back to the engine, nothing would show on the stick. Would you ride it before confirming the oil level?

I believe the main reason BRP specifies a procedure is so that the conditions are the same every time you check the oil. If you take all the variables out of the equation you will get the most accurate check -- every time.

Regards,

Mark

 

[bjt]

If you check it "cold" and no oil is showing, how would you know the difference between a situation where the oil has simply drained back to the engine, and the level is actually low? If the oil is just a little low, but enough oil has drained back to the engine, nothing would show on the stick.

If I checked the oil cold and I didn't have any oil on the dipstick, I would recheck it following the proper warm engine check procedure before I added any oil.

In that last part of my sentence, I mean that I would follow the BRP oil check procedure just to verify that I truly had to add any oil. I probably should have stated it that way.

I guess I'm just saying that it may be possible to verify an okay oil level without following the full BRP procedure. It won't be dead nuts accurate, but it could be good enough if you are in a hurry.

 

[SpyderMark]

I guess I'm just saying that it may be possible to verify an okay oil level without following the full BRP procedure. It won't be dead nuts accurate, but it could be good enough if you are in a hurry.

I suppose if you checked enough times and got the same indications you could learn to "trust" a reading not taken by the book.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Putt-Putt]

If and I say if The dry sump system is working properly Your oil will not drain back into the engine. I've owned several Triumphs--BSAs--Nortons-- were dry sump systems. And none of them drained back into the engine. I had to add oil twice to my spyder before oil change. But when I changed oil only 4 qts of oil came out.

 

[SpyderMark]

I had to add oil twice to my spyder before oil change. But when I changed oil only 4 qts of oil came out.

Putt-Putt, I'm curious, have you noticed any oil in your airbox?

Regards,

Mark

 

[Putt-Putt]

Yes the air box did have oil in it. You'd think that if that much oil was going in the air box you'd have blue smoke from the exhaust. But i don't, and no leaks on the garage floor. :dontknow:

 

[SpyderMark]

Yes the air box did have oil in it. You'd think that if that much oil was going in the air box you'd have blue smoke from the exhaust. But i don't, and no leaks on the garage floor. :dontknow:

How much oil did you add between changes?

Regards,

Mark

 

[Putt-Putt]

About 2 qts.---Had to fill two times @ 1,200 and 2,600 miles just ticking bottom of dip stick. Last 400 miles put oil level down about 1/4 of the way from top fill mark. So it went though quite a bit of oil.

 

[SpyderMark]

About 2 qts.---Had to fill two times @ 1,200 and 2,600 miles just ticking bottom of dip stick. Last 400 miles put oil level down about 1/4 of the way from top fill mark. So it went though quite a bit of oil.

Hmmmmmm. I think you mentioned in another thread you switched to Shell Rotella T 5W40 Synthetic and your oil consumption ended?

Regards,

Mark

 

[Putt-Putt]

You are correct. And so far with the Shell oil it has not used any oil in 1,500 miles. I got got my fingers crossed hope it stays that way.

 

[SpyderMark]

You are correct. And so far with the Shell oil it has not used any oil in 1,500 miles.

As Arte Johnson used to say, "Veddy Eentrestink." I wonder if it had more to do with the engine finally breaking in than the switch to different oil. I can't imagine why a different oil would make that much difference... :dontknow:

Regards,

Mark

 

[Putt-Putt]

Makes two of us. :dontknow: