I think my Hindle is dead

[Reinyn]

I have had my Spyder for about 1.25 yrs and I had the Hindle put on shortly after I bought the bike, 6000 miles now. I am running the green filter as well.

Last September I had the first update done and after that I had all the sputtering / backfiring problems that people had with it. I don't have a local dealer so it was only last weekend that I had the second update done. This winter I did put the Honda exhaust gaskets on and they helped some. One of the stock gaskets was completely gone.

So I was really hoping that this second update was going to fix everything. It did fix the low rpm surging and sputtering, but I still get popping on decel and the occasional backfire.

I am starting to think that all the backfiring has damaged the pipe. Hopefully the Honda gaskets are still good.

So I'm open to suggestions. I have a NIB JuiceBox that I have been too chicken to install. I want to make sure everything is working as it should before I install it (if I have to, I wouldn't mind selling it). I don't really want to eat the cost of a new Hindle, but I may have to. Does anyone have a pipe recommendation that is as quiet or quieter then the Hindle (hopefully cheaper as well).

 

[Firefly]

I have had my Spyder for about 1.25 yrs and I had the Hindle put on shortly after I bought the bike, 6000 miles now. I am running the green filter as well.

Last September I had the first update done and after that I had all the sputtering / backfiring problems that people had with it. I don't have a local dealer so it was only last weekend that I had the second update done. This winter I did put the Honda exhaust gaskets on and they helped some. One of the stock gaskets was completely gone.

So I was really hoping that this second update was going to fix everything. It did fix the low rpm surging and sputtering, but I still get popping on decel and the occasional backfire.

I am starting to think that all the backfiring has damaged the pipe. Hopefully the Honda gaskets are still good.

So I'm open to suggestions. I have a NIB JuiceBox that I have been too chicken to install. I want to make sure everything is working as it should before I install it (if I have to, I wouldn't mind selling it). I don't really want to eat the cost of a new Hindle, but I may have to. Does anyone have a pipe recommendation that is as quiet or quieter then the Hindle (hopefully cheaper as well).

You're Hindle shouldn't be shot at 6,000 miles. Some decel popping is normal.... but backfire isn't.

You need to get more fuel into your system since you added the green filter.

Install the juicebox and see what happens--- should help.

 

[Firefly]

Also check some of the threads out here pertaining to setting the Juicebox up.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19207

 

[widowmaker2011]

Food for thought:
Dyno shows about a 3-5 hp gain with the hindle with torque almost the same as stock. The Green filter, while giving the 990 a throaty intake sound and a perception of better throttle response , the Dyno doesn't lie folks , gives a negligible hp gain versus stock.
My suggestion would be to drop the stock filter back in. Just my 2 cents. Every Spyder I have seen after the 2nd update with a hindle and stock airbox/filter run very good with no issues.
You don't have to believe me and flame away if you want, but the green filter isn't making you one bit faster. (It's not a knock on the filter , it has better flow characteristics than the stock BRP filter) However , the airbox setup and the throttle body and intake ports ability to flow (based on exteremely lazy cam timing versus the Aprilla version of this motor) (Remember this motor can make 139 hp WITH DIFFERENT INTERNALS) are what makes the motor unable to maximize on the increased "ability" of that filter to flow more cfm. Remember , just because it "can" flow more , doesn't mean it will. Throw our stock filter on the 990 Aprilla Motor and it would be choked up , with our current setups, we just don't need nor can we benefit from that much flow. :lecturef_smilie:

 

[Firefly]

Food for thought:
Dyno shows about a 3-5 hp gain with the hindle with torque almost the same as stock. The Green filter, while giving the 990 a throaty intake sound and a perception of better throttle response , the Dyno doesn't lie folks , gives a negligible hp gain versus stock.
My suggestion would be to drop the stock filter back in. Just my 2 cents. Every Spyder I have seen after the 2nd update with a hindle and stock airbox/filter run very good with no issues.
You don't have to believe me and flame away if you want, but the green filter isn't making you one bit faster. (It's not a knock on the filter , it has better flow characteristics than the stock BRP filter) However , the airbox setup and the throttle body and intake ports ability to flow (based on exteremely lazy cam timing versus the Aprilla version of this motor) (Remember this motor can make 139 hp WITH DIFFERENT INTERNALS) are what makes the motor unable to maximize on the increased "ability" of that filter to flow more cfm. Remember , just because it "can" flow more , doesn't mean it will. Throw our stock filter on the 990 Aprilla Motor and it would be choked up , with our current setups, we just don't need nor can we benefit from that much flow. :lecturef_smilie:

So how do you explain this?

http://www.aerocharger.com/kits_canam_spyder.php


If you are getting more air-- ya gotta add more fuel. If the green filter is indeed flowing more air--- then he should need more fuel should he not? Juicebox should help... and he already owns one.

 

[widowmaker2011]

So how do you explain this?

http://www.aerocharger.com/kits_canam_spyder.php


If you are getting more air-- ya gotta add more fuel. If the green filter is indeed flowing more air--- then he should need more fuel should he not? Juicebox should help... and he already owns one.

Firefly, forced induction isn't what we were talking about. There's a huge difference between blowing that kind of pressure through a motor versus the normal cfm our motors can pump. Remember, our motors are merely air pumps plain and simple. Bolting on a turbo makes this whole conversation a mute point as we then pressurize the intake. :2thumbs:

 

[BajaRon]

Food for thought:
Dyno shows about a 3-5 hp gain with the hindle with torque almost the same as stock. The Green filter, while giving the 990 a throaty intake sound and a perception of better throttle response , the Dyno doesn't lie folks , gives a negligible hp gain versus stock.
My suggestion would be to drop the stock filter back in. Just my 2 cents. Every Spyder I have seen after the 2nd update with a hindle and stock airbox/filter run very good with no issues.
You don't have to believe me and flame away if you want, but the green filter isn't making you one bit faster. (It's not a knock on the filter , it has better flow characteristics than the stock BRP filter) However , the airbox setup and the throttle body and intake ports ability to flow (based on exteremely lazy cam timing versus the Aprilla version of this motor) (Remember this motor can make 139 hp WITH DIFFERENT INTERNALS) are what makes the motor unable to maximize on the increased "ability" of that filter to flow more cfm. Remember , just because it "can" flow more , doesn't mean it will. Throw our stock filter on the 990 Aprilla Motor and it would be choked up , with our current setups, we just don't need nor can we benefit from that much flow. :lecturef_smilie:

Ok, let's say your senario is correct. The Green filter, while having the potential to flow more air, makes no actual difference because the bottlenecks are elsewhere, Airbox, Throttle Bodies, intake ports and "lazy cams".

Your fix is to put the stock air filter back in to help correct the lean condition thus reducing or eliminating the backfire issue.

But how will the stock filter accomplish this? The only way switching back to the stock air filter helps is if it restricts air flow effectively increasing fuel percentage to the air charge. (Less air, same amount of fuel = richer mix).

Now if the Green filter is not ACTUALLY increasing air volume to the combustion chamber, as you suggest, then changing back to stock would make no difference. You just can't have it both ways.

What is really going on here is the Green filter IS increasing air flow to the cylinder. But the EFI is not adequately compensating with additional fuel so you get a lean condition and backfiring.

I would agree that the Green filter alone probably does not give any real increase in power.

However, the Green filter does increase the POTENTIAL for more power if you simply match the increase in air volume with an appropriate increase in fuel volume.

The way I see it you basically you have 2 choices. Go back to stock filter, exhaust, power and performance. Or take that last step of installing the JB and maximize all of these parameters.

It's like riding a horse, you need to be On or Off, half way just doesn't work very well.

 

[Sny]

...the Green filter does increase the POTENTIAL for more power if you simply match the increase in air volume with an appropriate increase in fuel volume...

Think about what you said.

the Filter does increase the potential for more airflow. Agreed.

a more restrictive filter will decrease the potential airflow. Yep.

But a change in filter will not increase the airflow all on it's own. A filter will not change the volumetric efficiency of a motor. If the motor doesn't pump more air, a less restrictive filter will not change anything.

This is all under the assumption that the current 990 is not trying to pump more air than the stock filter can flow. If the dyno shows no change in a fuel map tuned stock vs tuned K&N filter, then I would have to say the 990 doesn't need a less restrictive filter. I have no personal dyno experience that says this is true FWIW.

Speaking generally; a naturally aspirated motor struggles to break 100% by very much and only does so under certain conditions where scavenging can lend a helping hand. (scavenging is where hot exhaust gases exiting the header can draw in fresh air beyond what the cylinder draws on the downstroke because both the intake and exhaust valves are open, briefly, at the same time)

When you change to forced induction everything changes. The Volumetric efficiency of the motor exceeds 100%, often by a large margin without the need for "the perfect storm". Just shove it in, measure it, fuel it, and ignite it.

Back to the filter tho... the reusable oiled filters are cheaper in the long run and often can keep more crap out of your engine than a paper filter.

- Sny

I like digging up old threads... :doorag: