I mean D-E-A-D stereo mod-

[carbolic]

(I posted the stereo mod elsewhere in this subforum-)

OK- I can NOT figure this out but I feel like I should have some clue before I call the dealer- Here is the background:

I installed a Pyle 200w AM/FM/CD player (no other amp) with a hard-wired remote and 6 speakers. I ran the hot lead right to the battery so it was unswitched. There is a fuse as part of the radio hot lead and one in the rear of the unit. I needed to crank the volume to 35-40 to hear the radio and it ran without ANY difficulty for 2 months. I decided that I wanted to have the hot lead from the radio as well as my Garmin Zumo (also right to the battery) set up as switched via the accessory terminal from the ignition. I took it to the dealer and they did the work. When I picked up the bike, I was told that it had been road tested to check it as well as the brake shoes that were replaced under warranty for squeaking. I powered up the bike and sure enough, everything turned on and then back off with the ignition (after the expected delay)

I left with the bike, motored down the highway- I turned up the volume to the usual levels and I could hear the music fine and the Zumo war running, no problem- Then everything went black (Zumo, remote readout) and music was gone. I stopped and thought…sounds like a fuse so I turned around and took it back to the dealer. He took out the accessory fuse (3 amp) and said “It didn’t blow, it melted”- He replaced it with a 5 amp fuse and everything powered up again. So, once again, I motor down the highway and everything is on but as I turn up the volume to check the music level I realize that THERE IS NO SOUND !—I didn’t check it at the dealer because I saw that everything powered up and so I figured I was good to go.

I got home and check all of the fuses- Here is what I have found:

-GPS powers up and works fine
-Radio powers up- All mentioned fuses are fine but still no sound
-The CD eject display says ”eject” but the motor does not work to spit out the CD
-The station search just dials around and around but doesn’t lock a station and the antenna is fine
-None of the speakers is blown and all are rated in excess of 200 w peak.

My question aside from the obvious: How could the same power output be fine without a fuse at the panel and after adding one, allows a surge of power that takes out the guts of the radio but allows this ”lights are on but nobody home” situation ? :banghead:

 

[bjt]

I've got a few things running through my mind right now...

How did they set up the hot lead from the switched accessory wires? If they just wired it right to the switched accessory wires, those wires are not big enough to handle everything that was put on them.

Running a lot of power through small wires causes excessive voltage drop and that combination could have somehow affected the electronics in your radio.

Just the basics of watts, volts and amps are 200 watts divided by 12 volts equals 16.667 amps.

Even a 3 amp fuse will carry hundreds or thousands of amps for some amount of time before it will blow.

If the wiring feeding the radio and GPS was damaged, it can possibly show 12 volts with no load on it. Once you apply a load, the voltage can drop considerably causing flakey operation of the attached devices.

The fuse is installed to protect the wiring and devices downstream from the fuse. If the fuse was completely melted, probably some of the wiring or a device took damage before the power was cut as a melted fuse would be a sign that it was still conducting / arcing electricity after the fuse attempted to open.

200 watts is the peak of the stereo, right? It's normal operation is max 100 watts, 150 watts? Running a 200 watt stereo at 30% might only be drawing 3 amps or so. Cranking it to 50% will be pulling more amps. (I'm not a stereo guy so I'm not sure how those power ratings work.) This could explain how it appeared to work fine at the shop, probably at a lower volume, but once you got on the road and cranked the volume up, it tried to pull too much power. This is based on the assumption that they wired the stereo right to the switched accesory wires.

:dontknow:

 

[carbolic]

I've got a few things running through my mind right now...

How did they set up the hot lead from the switched accessory wires? If they just wired it right to the switched accessory wires, those wires are not big enough to handle everything that was put on them.

Running a lot of power through small wires causes excessive voltage drop and that combination could have somehow affected the electronics in your radio.

Just the basics of watts, volts and amps are 200 watts divided by 12 volts equals 16.667 amps.

Even a 3 amp fuse will carry hundreds or thousands of amps for some amount of time before it will blow.

If the wiring feeding the radio and GPS was damaged, it can possibly show 12 volts with no load on it. Once you apply a load, the voltage can drop considerably causing flakey operation of the attached devices.

The fuse is installed to protect the wiring and devices downstream from the fuse. If the fuse was completely melted, probably some of the wiring or a device took damage before the power was cut as a melted fuse would be a sign that it was still conducting / arcing electricity after the fuse attempted to open.

200 watts is the peak of the stereo, right? It's normal operation is max 100 watts, 150 watts? Running a 200 watt stereo at 30% might only be drawing 3 amps or so. Cranking it to 50% will be pulling more amps. (I'm not a stereo guy so I'm not sure how those power ratings work.) This could explain how it appeared to work fine at the shop, probably at a lower volume, but once you got on the road and cranked the volume up, it tried to pull too much power. This is based on the assumption that they wired the stereo right to the switched accesory wires.

:dontknow:

Service invoice reads, "radio and GPS wired to ACC plug (fused and works w/ ign switch)

I did not hear any sound after we installed the 5 amp fuse- The level would have been too low to hear and with the bike running, I presumed that it was simply too low to hear but I now suspect that there was no sound at all at that point and I just wasn't aware of it.

 

[carbolic]

This is based on the assumption that they wired the stereo right to the switched accessory wires.

:dontknow:

interesting...how should they have wired it?

 

[NancysToy]

interesting...how should they have wired it?

Through an auxiliary fuse box or relay which was triggered by the switched accessory circuit.
-Scotty

 

[vt228]

Through an auxiliary fuse box or relay which was triggered by the switched accessory circuit.
-Scotty

:agree:

 

[bjt]

interesting...how should they have wired it?

Through an auxiliary fuse box or relay which was triggered by the switched accessory circuit.
-Scotty

:agree:

That's why I posted that stuff about 200 watts fed with 12 volts will pull 16.667 amps. You were potentially trying to pull 16 amps (with the stereo alone, 17 or 18 with the GPS?) through a 3 amp fuse. The fuse will definitely blow in that scenario. If you don't want to put together some type of power block kit yourself to feed your electronic accessories, buy the Evoluzione Powerbus from Evoluzione.net This is the description of the kit from his website

this power bus system is designed to add up to six switched power terminals, each with it's own blade type fuse. the system also has a master fuse protecting the whole system and is rated at 30 amps total. the main unit is located behind the gauges where it is well protected yet easily accessible for both wiring and fuse replacement. the complete kit includes all necessary wiring, relay, fuse block, assorted fuses and mounting hardware.

There are probably other setups like this out there but the Evoluzione Powerbus comes with all the things you need to hook it up to a Spyder (proper size and length wires, lugs, fuses, etc.) along with fairly detailed instructions on how to install it on the Spyder.

 

[bjt]

When you had the radio wired directly to the battery for the first few months, what was the size of the fuse that was inline on the power lead? If it's 3 amps, then the dealership hooking it up to the switched accessory wires shouldn't have caused a problem. However, I believe that the inline fuse is probably 15 amps or higher. That means that whatever feeds that power lead should be capable of handling 15 amps or more. I don't think the 3 amp switched accessory circuit is capable of handling 15 amps, even if you stick a 15 amp fuse in the switched accessory slot. The wires are probably not properly sized to handle that high of current for sustained use.

 

[NancysToy]

......I don't think the 3 amp switched accessory circuit is capable of handling 15 amps, even if you stick a 15 amp fuse in the switched accessory slot. The wires are probably not properly sized to handle that high of current for sustained use.

:agree: and the heat from running them at higher loads will increase the resistance, lowering the voltage to your equipment.

 

[carbolic]

:agree: and the heat from running them at higher loads will increase the resistance, lowering the voltage to your equipment.

OK, but can the lowered voltage result in a fried radio under the conditions described? BJT, the power lead fuse is 2A 250v.

Should this technician have known to tell me that I can't just ask him to hook the electronics up to a switched circuit; that he should have informed me of the relay that would be necessary? I guess my question is, is the dealer culpable in this situation, my responsibility as a customer to tell what I want and their responsibility being to advise what will be necessary?

 

[NancysToy]

OK, but can the lowered voltage result in a fried radio under the conditions described? BJT, the power lead fuse is 2A 250v.

Should this technician have known to tell me that I can't just ask him to hook the electronics up to a switched circuit; that he should have informed me of the relay that would be necessary? I guess my question is, is the dealer culpable in this situation, my responsibility as a customer to tell what I want and their responsibility being to advise what will be necessary?

Lowered voltage shouldn't fry a stereo, usually only high voltage can do that. Low voltage can make electronic gear do funny things, though, and may be part of the problem with your unit losing its mind. Temporarily hooking it to the battery again could clear these faults, if not, your unit probably fried a processor.

I do not understand the 2 amp fuse. A 200 watt stereo turned up full blast will draw at least 16.7 amps, and should be protected by a 20 amp fuse. Are you sure you didn't read it wrong? Sometimes those stamped numbers are hard to read. The stereo instructions should specify what size fuse and wires are needed to feed it. It is also possible that the small fuse and wire is just to feed the light on the stereo. Lots of times that wire is seperate, and the internal fuse protects the stereo, or an external fuse size is specified. You really need the instructions and wiring diagram (wire colors) in front of you to determine what is feeding what.

In my opinion the dealer had the responsibility to connect with the proper (specified) size wire and fuse. You need to know that information to confront him. Could be available online if you are lucky, and don't have the manual or specs. If the unit was not installed according to the manufacturer's recommendations, the dealer should make ammends. Any unit failure should be covered by a warranty, too, in most cases, unless the dealer really screwed up, then he should replace the unit.

 

[carbolic]

I do not understand the 2 amp fuse. A 200 watt stereo turned up full blast will draw at least 16.7 amps, and should be protected by a 20 amp fuse. Are you sure you didn't read it wrong? Sometimes those stamped numbers are hard to read. The stereo instructions should specify what size fuse and wires are needed to feed it. It is also possible that the small fuse and wire is just to feed the light on the stereo. Lots of times that wire is seperate, and the internal fuse protects the stereo, or an external fuse size is specified. You really need the instructions and wiring diagram (wire colors) in front of you to determine what is feeding what.

In my opinion the dealer had the responsibility to connect with the proper (specified) size wire and fuse. You need to know that information to confront him. Could be available online if you are lucky, and don't have the manual or specs. If the unit was not installed according to the manufacturer's recommendations, the dealer should make ammends. Any unit failure should be covered by a warranty, too, in most cases, unless the dealer really screwed up, then he should replace the unit.

the main lead is black and of greater guage than the others- The fuse itself is small, gray, and marked "2"- The wire to hold the settings in memory is blue. I will try going back to battery to test your suggestion. Thanks very much all-

 

[carbolic]

I do not understand the 2 amp fuse. A 200 watt stereo turned up full blast will draw at least 16.7 amps, and should be protected by a 20 amp fuse. Are you sure you didn't read it wrong? Sometimes those stamped numbers are hard to read. The stereo instructions should specify what size fuse and wires are needed to feed it. It is also possible that the small fuse and wire is just to feed the light on the stereo. Lots of times that wire is seperate, and the internal fuse protects the stereo, or an external fuse size is specified. You really need the instructions and wiring diagram (wire colors) in front of you to determine what is feeding what.

In my opinion the dealer had the responsibility to connect with the proper (specified) size wire and fuse. You need to know that information to confront him. Could be available online if you are lucky, and don't have the manual or specs. If the unit was not installed according to the manufacturer's recommendations, the dealer should make ammends. Any unit failure should be covered by a warranty, too, in most cases, unless the dealer really screwed up, then he should replace the unit.

the main lead is red and of greater guage than the others- The fuse itself is small, gray, and marked "2"- The wire to hold the settings in memory is yellow. I will try going back to battery to test your suggestion. Thanks very much all-

 

[ataDude]

the main lead is red and of greater guage than the others- The fuse itself is small, gray, and marked "2"- The wire to hold the settings in memory is yellow. I will try going back to battery to test your suggestion. Thanks very much all-

Then the 2-amp is for the memory/processor only? I'll bet.

.

 

[zzneonzz]

I'm not sure about the marine grade stereo's as i've never used any of them but the Auto stereo's that i have used in the past have always had a 15amp fuse for the power cable. And amps use minimum of 30amp fuse hooked to the power lead 6" off the battery depending on the power of the amp.

The Garmin should be fine as i believe it only uses a 3amp fuse as well. If your going to be hooking up more than just the accessories plug I would recomend getting a power bus to have more accessories connection and i believe they are rated at either 15amp or 30amp.

 

[carbolic]

Temporarily hooking it to the battery again could clear these faults, if not, your unit probably fried a processor.

Son of a *&$%! Scotty- That did the trick! You gotta quit your day job and do this full time! I still think I will look at a relay situation to keep this from happening again though I did crank it up to full riding volume on the switched circuit and it was solid-

Thank to all for the input-:2thumbs:

 

[NancysToy]

Son of a *&$%! Scotty- That did the trick! You gotta quit your day job and do this full time! I still think I will look at a relay situation to keep this from happening again though I did crank it up to full riding volume on the switched circuit and it was solid-

Thank to all for the input-:2thumbs:

No day job...retired. Don't even think about saying the "W" word to me. Glad I could be of assistance.