How difficult is it to flush the brake fluid on a 2015 F3S Spyder?

[Capt. Bob]

I am wondering with the ABS if flushing the 3 year-old fluid on my 2015 F3S is doable at the house without special tools/equipment? Thanks for the help and heads up.

 

[Capt. Bob]

I got a great PM from one of our regulars who suggested that with ALL Spyders that flushing should start at the left front, then right front and then rear while not letting any air into the system. Seems pretty darn reasonable to me :thumbup:

 

[Highwayman2013]

I haven't done my F3L yet. I did do our 2012 RTL a couple times and had no problems.

 

[Capt. Bob]

Had a Can-Am Tech Do the Brake and Clutch Fluid Flush

I was looking through the F3 manual and in the procedures for flushing the brake fluid, it calls for the use of the BUDS at the end of procedure to use the ABS pump to completely flush the lines. Given this, I found a dealer that was willing to charge a reasonable price for the procedure and had them do it using the BRP DOT 4 brake fluid to insure full compatibility with the whole system. I won't be mentioning the price but it was considerably less than the 3.5-4.0 hour book rate that I had been quoted by several dealers. Sheer rip off IMHO. The procedure really only takes about 1-1.75 hours if the tech knows what they are doing. I did a few panic stops on the way home on my private roads and the system was functioning perfectly. Did I mention that I really LOVE my F3S! Other than it following the slope of the roads like a hunting dog, everything else about the trike is just sheer fun!

 

[Capt. Bob]

Flushing brakes on an ABS Spyder system

The dealership where I was going to get my brakes flushed was initially going to have a non-Spyder tech do the job. I had handed the 4-page instructions from the service manual to the Service Manager to insure that the tech followed the prescribed procedures. The first tech blew off the instructions and said he didn't need them. I informed the Service Manager that I would prefer to NOT have this dumbass tech touch my trike and suggested that I take it home. The certified Can-Am tech was then given the job even though he was slammed with work and I drew a long breath. There are certain aspects of these Can-Am's that are better left to qualified techs with a BUDS system rather than some unqualified but experienced tech who could do it improperly. Bottom line seems to be that this service is best done by a Can-Am dealer rather than an Indy unless the Indy has access to the BUDS system.

In doing my research, I realized that brake flushes for a F3 are best completed by a tech who has the experience and the BUDS systems to properly complete the task. The Service Manager suggested that he would be having the certified tech overseeing the other tech's work but this provided me with no comfort given the experienced dumbasses "know it all" attitude. It is not like changing the oil which after reading the instructions a couple of times was easy to perform. I did unnecessarily purchase a big ass 36mm GearWrench which is one of the trickest looking tools I have ever owned just to remove the oil filter canister top. I will only use this tool x1/year based on time rather than miles but it is comforting to have the right tool rather than using a pair of channelock pliers to remove the canister top. Besides, if I am ever attacked in my garage, I have a handy weapon that is almost better than a baseball bat

 

[Easy Rider]

I won't be mentioning the price ........

And I guess you won't be mentioning who the shop is either.
Pretty rude to post a tease like that, in my opinion, for the rest of us in Florida who are looking for a reliable shop.

Edit: Or maybe not. Given your second post on the matter, would you go back to them again ??

 

[Hypurone]

It isn't hard as long as you have the tools (a 10mm flare nut or box end wrench, bleeder hose w/ 90deg fitting if you want to leave the front wheels on and fluid container) and either speed bleeders (these allow you to leave the bleeder open while bleeding vs closing on the up-stroke of the pedal to avoid air being drawn in) or a helper to operate the pedal when flushing at the left front since it is a bit tough to reach the pedal from there.

 

[Capt. Bob]

And I guess you won't be mentioning who the shop is either.
Pretty rude to post a tease like that, in my opinion, for the rest of us in Florida who are looking for a reliable shop.

Edit: Or maybe not. Given your second post on the matter, would you go back to them again ??

Didn't mean to be rude. It was kind of a mixed-bag experience that turned out well. I also own a Harley Tri Glide Ultra trike with the new M8 engine and find that I can do at least 95% of all the required maintenance with my own garage tools and a few inexpensive specialty tools from Harley. With the Can-Am, I have been running into a lot of dealers that don't seem to have the best trained service techs or they are doing certain jobs very seldom like changing brake fluid/clutch fluid because many customers neglect that aspect of maintenance and it is possible that the dealerships are not suggesting that service because it books out so expensively?

I bought my Spyder from Central Florida Motorsports in Orlando, Florida used (6k on the F3S) and they had one particular tech that appeared to be primarily tasked with Can-Am repairs/service. He was responsible for a complete oil and tire change on the trike before I took delivery and did an excellent job that was paid for by the dealership as part of the sale. They sell so many other brands of bikes that the other techs appeared to work on the other brands. I was kind of flabbergasted by their published prices for certain services on Can-Ams that seemed pretty expensive. As others have lamented, many service tasks on Spyders seem to require the use of the BUDS system to complete the job and this really forces the consumer to head for a dealership. They did not perform a laser alignment at the time of the rear tire change and I immediately trailered it to Doc's Spyder Aligment in Folkston, GA where he uses the True Laser Track alignment system and Doc really knew what he was doing and was simply a perfectionist (highly recommended in Southeast Georgia and you can visit the Okefenokee Swamp that has an entrance right at Folkston).

In terms of going back to the dealership, it would only be on the condition that the certified Can-Am tech is turning the wrenches. If not, I can read a manual as well or better than some techs and have the tools and know-how to do most common services and even some rudimentary repairs if necessary.

 

[Capt. Bob]

It isn't hard as long as you have the tools (a 10mm flare nut or box end wrench, bleeder hose w/ 90deg fitting if you want to leave the front wheels on and fluid container) and either speed bleeders (these allow you to leave the bleeder open while bleeding vs closing on the up-stroke of the pedal to avoid air being drawn in) or a helper to operate the pedal when flushing at the left front since it is a bit tough to reach the pedal from there.

Chuck, I fully agree with your assessment up to the point where the service manual calls for the use of the BUDS system as the last part of the fluid flush and to read and compute the various values for the three-wheel antilock braking system. That last task outlined in the service manual can only be performed with the BUDS. I am not sure as long as you don't introduce any air into the system if that final task with the BUDS is truly critical if the trike was stopping well before the fluid change? It seems to make sense however because you only have one brake lever to depress which then actuates different parts of the braking system in a closed feedback loop.

 

[Hypurone]

Chuck, I fully agree with your assessment up to the point where the service manual calls for the use of the BUDS system as the last part of the fluid flush and to read and compute the various values for the three-wheel antilock braking system. That last task outlined in the service manual can only be performed with the BUDS. I am not sure as long as you don't introduce any air into the system if that final task with the BUDS is truly critical if the trike was stopping well before the fluid change? It seems to make sense however because you only have one brake lever to depress which then actuates different parts of the braking system in a closed feedback loop.

The BUDS step I think is to clear any air that may get inadvertently introduced into the system and the small amount of fluid that resides within the ABS actuator module. If done carefully you won't get air as you should never let the fluid in the master get low enough to uncover the ports. I wouldn't stress over the amount of fluid left in the actuator module. Think of it like not getting all the oil out when you do an oil change....

 

[Capt. Bob]

The BUDS step I think is to clear any air that may get inadvertently introduced into the system and the small amount of fluid that resides within the ABS actuator module. If done carefully you won't get air as you should never let the fluid in the master get low enough to uncover the ports. I wouldn't stress over the amount of fluid left in the actuator module. Think of it like not getting all the oil out when you do an oil change....

I was kind of thinking that and I think your rationale is right on the money! It clearly states in the instructions that the whole system needs to be flushed if air is introduced into the system so it makes sense to insure that the brake fluid reservoir always has fluid in it while flushing the system. That way I suspect that the trike can't throw a code and/or have any difficulties following your procedure. Many people don't even think about flushing their brake systems and as we know, DOT 4 brake fluid is hydrophilic and absorbs about 10% in water annually of the total volume of brake fluid. After a couple of years, that represents about a 20% exchange of brake fluid for water which is not critical until some point when things internally in the braking system begin to rust and/or deteriorate.

 

[GearHd]

I think the problem with not using the BUDS is that some of the old fluid stays in the ABS unless it's actually cycled. Harley just had a HUGE recall because people weren't properly flushing their ABS system.

 

[Capt. Bob]

I think the problem with not using the BUDS is that some of the old fluid stays in the ABS unless it's actually cycled. Harley just had a HUGE recall because people weren't properly flushing their ABS system.

You know, you are correct on that one. The remaining fluid was reportedly causing the rear brake calipers to seize up IIRC from corrosion. Maybe my agreement with our fellow poster about the unflushed old fluid not being critical may be an oversight or misguided notion?

 

[Easy Rider]

Maybe my agreement with our fellow poster about the unflushed old fluid not being critical may be an oversight or misguided notion?

Maybe.

Thank you for posting the dealership name.
I think your experience with them is similar to a LOT of the dealers.
Low volume doesn't generate a good experience level for the mechanics.

ALL vehicles these days are run more and more by computers and the days of "shade tree" mechanics is dwindling rapidly.
That's too bad.......because often you need a dose of common sense along with the computer to really get it right.

 

[BrianO]

Covering Brake guild reservoir?

I have a 16 RT which is 2 years old. During my pre-winter service the dealer said the brake fluid was very dark. I assume it was 3years old (2 riding and 1 in the crate).
Since thespyder is now in my garage waiting for spring, would it make sense to cover the brake reservoir with a plastic bag to prevent air from entering? Maybe this would let the fluid last longer. It’s going to be there for 5 months at least.

what do you think?.....brian

 

[Eckhard]

the days of "shade tree" mechanics is dwindling rapidly.
That's too bad.......because often you need a dose of common sense along with the computer to really get it right.

There are "right to repair act" are being introduced in various legislatures to insure that information supplied to dealers is also supplied to other wishing to repair their vehicles. We should push to make this happen and for software like BUDS to be made open source, like OBDII, so we can diagnose and repair our vehicles.

 

[LeftCoast]

I’ve been quoted $430 for an oil and brake fluid change. While outrageously expensive is that about in line with what I would expect to be charged?

 

[jcthorne]

There are "right to repair act" are being introduced in various legislatures to insure that information supplied to dealers is also supplied to other wishing to repair their vehicles. We should push to make this happen and for software like BUDS to be made open source, like OBDII, so we can diagnose and repair our vehicles.

You misunderstand the 'Right to Repair Act'.

What BRP currently offers in published manuals and software tools is fully complaint with the act that is not even law yet. All service manuals and service related tools and software are readily available to the general public. NOWHERE is there a requirement that any of it be free.

You want to work on a Spyder, buy the information and tools required to do the job. No one is standing in your way.

 

[JP58]

I use a mighty vac hand pump with brake reservoir kit and suck the fluid out.. I have someone keep the reservoir filled as it runs low. Close bleeder before emptying brake fluid. I do it on all 3 calipers. This way you do not pump brake pedal. Never get air in this way. I use it for all my vehicles with or without ABS.

 

[tibadoe]

I use a mighty vac hand pump with brake reservoir kit and suck the fluid out..........

I use the same. Works great and never an issue.